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Rather than compare JWP to Kalvin Phillips, let's ask this question:

Would the JWP of today be a better starter ahead of Morgan Schneiderlin, Victor Wanyama or even Steven Davis in the 2014-2016 sides?

For me answer is probably no, and not sure where he'd fit in.

Morgan - some of the highest ball winning / interception rates

Wanyama - better at breaking up play than JWP

Davis - we know as the most underrated underrated player, but was a vital cog in linking defence with attack

I know what JWP brings to the table for us, he's a solid mid-table CM with a world-class set piece delivery, and there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm still glad he signed a new contract with us, one of our own and all that, I hope he sees out his career with us. 

Edited by nta786
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3 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Rather than compare JWP to Kalvin Phillips, let's ask this question:

Would the JWP of today be a better starter ahead of Morgan Schneiderlin, Victor Wanyama or even Steven Davis in the 2014-2016 sides?

For me answer is probably no, and not sure where he'd fit in.

Morgan - some of the highest ball winning / interception rates

Wanyama - better at breaking up play than JWP

Davis - we know as the most underrated underrated player, but was a vital cog in linking defence with attack

I know what JWP brings to the table for us, he's a solid mid-table CM with a world-class set piece delivery, and there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm still glad he signed a new contract with us, one of our own and all that, I hope he sees out his career with us. 

Much like the manager perfect for saints. Just about good enough that he’s popular and fans like him, but just shit enough that no one much better than us would want him. 

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15 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Much like the manager perfect for saints. Just about good enough that he’s popular and fans like him, but just shit enough that no one much better than us would want him. 

Or rather when they do want him (Villa), we feel completely justified sticking a ridiculous price tag on him.

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1 hour ago, nta786 said:

Rather than compare JWP to Kalvin Phillips, let's ask this question:

Would the JWP of today be a better starter ahead of Morgan Schneiderlin, Victor Wanyama or even Steven Davis in the 2014-2016 sides?

For me answer is probably no, and not sure where he'd fit in.

Morgan - some of the highest ball winning / interception rates

Wanyama - better at breaking up play than JWP

Davis - we know as the most underrated underrated player, but was a vital cog in linking defence with attack

I know what JWP brings to the table for us, he's a solid mid-table CM with a world-class set piece delivery, and there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm still glad he signed a new contract with us, one of our own and all that, I hope he sees out his career with us. 

Do you think Phillips would be a better starter than those 3? Not for me.

Phillips bores the pants off me and in one game I think he only played 4 or 5 forward passes all match.

As for the argument that if a manager picks a player then he must be better than the rest, Have people seen over the years how many very good/great players who have got very few if any international caps. Steve Bruce springs to mind.

 

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38 minutes ago, saintquin said:

Do you think Phillips would be a better starter than those 3? Not for me.

Phillips bores the pants off me and in one game I think he only played 4 or 5 forward passes all match.

As for the argument that if a manager picks a player then he must be better than the rest, Have people seen over the years how many very good/great players who have got very few if any international caps. Steve Bruce springs to mind.

Nope I don't think Phillips would be better than those 3 either.

I rate Phillips, but think in our team he should be compared to Romeu rather than with JWP.

For England, Phillips is better equipped and a better player for the role Southgate wants in his 532 than JWP is. 

I'd prefer JWP over Phillips in the games against Andorra/Bulgaria/San Marino etc etc but my strongest England XI wouldn't contain JWP (nor would it be 5 at the back!) 

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4 hours ago, nta786 said:

Congratulations!! 

 

4 hours ago, Minsk said:

Congratulations on your new arrival by the way. Daughters are fantastic. I have 4 of them. Youngest is 17 and still my baby girl.

 

4 hours ago, egg said:

Didn't notice this as I was skimming past all the nonsense. Congratulations, a lack of sleep is more than made up for by the good stuff. 

Thanks all! :)

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10 hours ago, TWar said:

Indeed indeed! I hope it does, I hope more sleep soon. She is our first so all very new! A little off topic, sorry mods!

Hey, well done TWar.....plenty of time for sleep; you've got a great experience to look forward to - how's your nappy changing technique?  No doubt she will dote on her Dad completely.....until she turns 12 or 13 at which point the peer group takes over and you'll be relegated to dropping her off at the corner and paying for the Nike Air Force Ones!

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19 hours ago, TWar said:

Indeed indeed! I hope it does, I hope more sleep soon. She is our first so all very new! A little off topic, sorry mods!

I’m amazed you’ve ever seen a females genitalia. I had you down as a computer game / spreadsheet kinda nerd. 
 

P.S congratulations. 

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20 hours ago, Saint_Jonny said:

Ah you've had a baby then. Welcome to the club. Mine is 2 now and it does get easier. Well, the sleep part does. The grumpiness / stress, not so much, but there are plenty of good moments to come. If my little one is into football (i'm not going to force it on him) - not sure how I convince him to be a Saints fan; "Are they good Daddy?" 😫

Truly remarkable!

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10 hours ago, austsaint said:

Hey, well done TWar.....plenty of time for sleep; you've got a great experience to look forward to - how's your nappy changing technique?  No doubt she will dote on her Dad completely.....until she turns 12 or 13 at which point the peer group takes over and you'll be relegated to dropping her off at the corner and paying for the Nike Air Force Ones!

My nappy changing technique is coming along! I'll enjoy the good times while I have them thanks!

1 hour ago, Dman said:

I’m amazed you’ve ever seen a females genitalia. I had you down as a computer game / spreadsheet kinda nerd. 
 

P.S congratulations. 

I'm what they call the total package, good at stats and very handsome 😉 Not so good at video games though, haven't really been good at one since those old guitar hero games over a decade ago! And even those I got stuck on medium difficulty!

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2 hours ago, TWar said:

My nappy changing technique is coming along! I'll enjoy the good times while I have them thanks!

I'm what they call the total package, good at stats and very handsome 😉 Not so good at video games though, haven't really been good at one since those old guitar hero games over a decade ago! And even those I got stuck on medium difficulty!

Congratulations. It's important to have children so that they can look after you in your old age. And so that you can have someone to go with you to the football.

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4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Congratulations. It's important to have children so that they can look after you in your old age. And so that you can have someone to go with you to the football.

Absolutely. My girls came with me even at a young age, reserve team games especially. They enjoyed the unhealthy snacks, and I enjoyed telling them that the teams swapped shirts (rather than ends) at half time so that they both wore both colours. Bright girls, but both believed me until our reserves played crystal palace reserves and the physical attributes of the players rumbled me. 

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4 hours ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Congratulations. It's important to have children so that they can look after you in your old age. And so that you can have someone to go with you to the football.

It hasn't worked for me. I'm still looking after them! Still, helps to keep you feeling young.

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On 06/10/2021 at 21:50, saintquin said:

 

 

Do you think Phillips would be a better starter than those 3? Not for me.

Phillips bores the pants off me and in one game I think he only played 4 or 5 forward passes all match.

As for the argument that if a manager picks a player then he must be better than the rest, Have people seen over the years how many very good/great players who have got very few if any international caps. Steve Bruce springs to mind.

 

And Le Tiss

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  • 2 weeks later...
34 minutes ago, whelk said:

Are we ok with letting Newcastle buy him for £90m?

Did we miss him today? Or did we see a dynamic, forward thinking midfield display?

Keen to see how we do in the next couple of matches.

 

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Let's be honest, nobody would offer £90m for James but £50-£60m would be interesting and I suspect that the club would take the money if he decided to go and I would be ok with that as long as we had time to reinvest the funds into the team.

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On 06/10/2021 at 20:22, nta786 said:

Rather than compare JWP to Kalvin Phillips, let's ask this question:

Would the JWP of today be a better starter ahead of Morgan Schneiderlin, Victor Wanyama or even Steven Davis in the 2014-2016 sides?

For me answer is probably no, and not sure where he'd fit in.

Morgan - some of the highest ball winning / interception rates

Wanyama - better at breaking up play than JWP

Davis - we know as the most underrated underrated player, but was a vital cog in linking defence with attack

I know what JWP brings to the table for us, he's a solid mid-table CM with a world-class set piece delivery, and there is absolutely no shame in that. I'm still glad he signed a new contract with us, one of our own and all that, I hope he sees out his career with us. 

JWP is one of those players you want about the club. What he offers in terms of continuity and culture around the team should not be underestimated. Morgan and Victor both left in a strop and did damage to morale in the process. On the pitch,  8 goals last season, which of our strikers are  people expecting to score more? On set pieces he is top 5 in the league. Yes you can be critical, a little sluggish and a bit sideways but a vital part of the team. Most of all I want to like the players that represent our city and he fits the bill. Thank you Prowsey and like nta 786 I hope I get to go to his testimonial. 

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10 hours ago, Sergei Gotsmanov said:

JWP is one of those players you want about the club. What he offers in terms of continuity and culture around the team should not be underestimated. Morgan and Victor both left in a strop and did damage to morale in the process. On the pitch,  8 goals last season, which of our strikers are  people expecting to score more? On set pieces he is top 5 in the league. Yes you can be critical, a little sluggish and a bit sideways but a vital part of the team. Most of all I want to like the players that represent our city and he fits the bill. Thank you Prowsey and like nta 786 I hope I get to go to his testimonial. 

All of that, or £90m.

Tough choice....

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1 hour ago, Weston Super Saint said:

All of that, or £90m.

Tough choice....

JWP for me, good players attract good players, and if we have changed are recruting to poaching the good youth players from the bigger teams, we need to keep  the ones likely to attract those new ones and JWP is tht, as Liv Said JWP not being sold was one of the reasons he signed, he wants to play with JWP.

no way are Newcastle spending 90 mill this season on any players as the EPL and clubs have already blocked them doing a city to by pass FFP rules with state supported sponsers.

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On 19/10/2021 at 10:32, skintsaint said:

90m would be mental money....even 60m is for JWP.

Clearly young players need " role models " and it's obvious that JWP's career has been an inspiration to many newcomers.

Prowsey himself says that he was inspired to practice free-kicks from a young age.... by watching  David Beckham.

We may not always agree with their choices, but one thing we have learned is that it isn't always the players who get " the best ratings" on

the pitch who help the team most, but those who DAJFU  in the dressing room by injecting confidence and encouraging the rest of the squad.  

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On 06/10/2021 at 19:10, Nemi said:

Can’t see why this is very controversial and tbh there’s no shame on being on the level of Mark Noble, he’s a solid player Premier League player - very few will make it to that level. 
 

But if you wanna be a comfortable PL you can’t have someone like JWP (or Mark Noble) being classed as one of the best players cause that highlights that the quality is lacking in other areas. 
 

You can see how much West Ham have improved with players like Noble playing more of a peripheral role.

 

And clearly that showed in our more successful years between 2014-16; JWP was a squad player rather than first name on the team-sheet.

 

This is slightly disingenuous as Mark Noble is at the end of his career (34 - after 17 years at WH and over 500 appearances for them) and will retire at the end of this season - thus his legs have gone - comparing him to JWP who is 26 is a strange one

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  • 2 weeks later...

James got a fair bit of criticism for the red he received at Chelsea, so I thought it would be worth mentioning on his thread that he won a robust 50/50 in the Villa game to set up AA's goal. His competitive nature is a credit to his game. What's more important is competent referee's at this level. Don't ever change. 

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8 minutes ago, LiberalCommunist said:

James got a fair bit of criticism for the red he received at Chelsea, so I thought it would be worth mentioning on his thread that he won a robust 50/50 in the Villa game to set up AA's goal. His competitive nature is a credit to his game. What's more important is competent referee's at this level. Don't ever change. 

I thought it was a harsh red personally, looked worse in slo-mo

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On 12/11/2021 at 12:16, TWar said:

I thought it was a harsh red personally, looked worse in slo-mo

It was a debateable only because he didn't make enough contact to cause serious injury. If it had been given as a straight red it wouldn't have been overturned becuase ultimately he was about an inch away from causing a serious injury - he was out of control, studs up, and travelling at speed - very nearly snapped his ankle But it wasn't done from a perspective of anything other than trying to win the ball. Regardless, it was a dumb tackle to have made and lost us the game.

Equally, with all that said and done - he does a great job for us in harrying and winding up opposition midfielders (the Armstrong tackle and pass from the weekend being a great example) - getting a sending off for the first time in i don't know how many seasons (assume its at least 3) isn't the end of the world. And further still, at least it happened in a game we should on paper expect to lose, than in one against a direct rival in the table etc.

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Didn't make enough contact. Didn't injure the opponent. The opponent didn't role on the ground writhing in agony until required coloured card produced. 

It's all so subjected. What was once just a ref, is now a few peoples opinion, and its so unpredictable. 

I still hate var, it has added such a tiny amount to the infractions, that I'd be happy if they pulled it overnight. 

 

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I think if it had hit his ankle it might have been fairer. Looked to my like his toe collided with the lower calf, didn't seem that dangerous to me. Also it wasn't at massive pace, like JWP dived in but I don't this there was much force. Thats what the slomo kind of misconstrues, there wasn't much force in the challenge imo. A yellow would have been fairer imo. Studs up yeah, but not much force, not much contact, and no real malice imo. 

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1 hour ago, TWar said:

I think if it had hit his ankle it might have been fairer. Looked to my like his toe collided with the lower calf, didn't seem that dangerous to me. Also it wasn't at massive pace, like JWP dived in but I don't this there was much force. Thats what the slomo kind of misconstrues, there wasn't much force in the challenge imo. A yellow would have been fairer imo. Studs up yeah, but not much force, not much contact, and no real malice imo. 

It was very harsh. It was also deep in their half. Referees get an adrenaline buzz from sending people off. The trouble with VAR is that when the fouth official says they think the ref should re look at it the assumption is that they think they should be sent off.

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7 hours ago, Saint86 said:

And further still, at least it happened in a game we should on paper expect to lose, than in one against a direct rival in the table etc.

More than that, we ended up losing a game we would probably have lost anyway (yeah we were playing ok up to the card but Chelsea have the kind of quality to create goals out of nothing that we lack), we got two wins and a draw during his 3 game suspension, and he got an enforced rest and came back looking fitter and sharper having been a bit off form after missing the pre-season friendlies.

I thought it was harsh at the time, but in hindsight I think the ref actually did us a favour.

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18 minutes ago, Sheaf Saint said:

More than that, we ended up losing a game we would probably have lost anyway (yeah we were playing ok up to the card but Chelsea have the kind of quality to create goals out of nothing that we lack), we got two wins and a draw during his 3 game suspension, and he got an enforced rest and came back looking fitter and sharper having been a bit off form after missing the pre-season friendlies.

I thought it was harsh at the time, but in hindsight I think the ref actually did us a favour.

Agree with most of that, except "we would probably have lost anyway". In fact we were arguably the better team and looking more dangerous after we equalised and before JWP was sent off. We'll never know of course, but Chelsea were running out of ideas until the sending off.

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52 minutes ago, Dark Munster said:

Agree with most of that, except "we would probably have lost anyway". In fact we were arguably the better team and looking more dangerous after we equalised and before JWP was sent off. We'll never know of course, but Chelsea were running out of ideas until the sending off.

We were looking the better team but didn't look like scoring. Chelsea have players all across the park who can create something out of nothing, which we most certainly don't. We might well have held on for a draw, but like you say we'll never know.

 

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13 hours ago, Sheaf Saint said:

We were looking the better team but didn't look like scoring. Chelsea have players all across the park who can create something out of nothing, which we most certainly don't. We might well have held on for a draw, but like you say we'll never know.

 

In all probability, we would not have lost that game had he not been sent off. We were the better side and looking to get the winner ourselves.

Whereas, we did lose because of his sending off.

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  • 4 weeks later...
9 minutes ago, Suhari said:

Any specific reasons he's taking less corners now?

Is he carrying an injury?

Unfortunately I think he is still taking the majority of corners albeit his delivery is abysmal. He used to whip them in with pace and bend but now he hits pathetic floaters that are food and drink to any goalkeeper and often lead to us being hit on the counter attack. He has lost his mojo and needs a spell on the subs bench because we looked a better side without him when he served his 3 match suspension. He seems sluggish and cost us the second goal at Arsenal when Redmond won the ball and JWP decided it would be a good idea to present it back to them. And don't get me started on his ridiculous decision for the free kick against Brighton. At present he is contributing very little to a struggling side so time he was dropped but we know Ralph won't do that.

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1 hour ago, Teddeer said:

Unfortunately I think he is still taking the majority of corners albeit his delivery is abysmal. He used to whip them in with pace and bend but now he hits pathetic floaters that are food and drink to any goalkeeper and often lead to us being hit on the counter attack. He has lost his mojo and needs a spell on the subs bench because we looked a better side without him when he served his 3 match suspension. He seems sluggish and cost us the second goal at Arsenal when Redmond won the ball and JWP decided it would be a good idea to present it back to them. And don't get me started on his ridiculous decision for the free kick against Brighton. At present he is contributing very little to a struggling side so time he was dropped but we know Ralph won't do that.

To be fair, we have no aerial threat anymore so his set pieces were always going to drop off in effectiveness.  Completely agree he could do with a break.

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Today is the reason why he starts. We struggle for goals and his free-kicks are our get out of jail free card. I also think he's our best midfielder overall (that's a pretty low bar I know) although his corners are very average.

Edited by Disco Stu
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On 16/12/2021 at 00:16, Disco Stu said:

Today is the reason why he starts. We struggle for goals and his free-kicks are our get out of jail free card. I also think he's our best midfielder overall (that's a pretty low bar I know) although his corners are very average.

When he was out and Redmond took them we actually looked dangerous.

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On 15/12/2021 at 18:16, Disco Stu said:

Today is the reason why he starts. We struggle for goals and his free-kicks are our get out of jail free card. I also think he's our best midfielder overall (that's a pretty low bar I know) although his corners are very average.

i feel like we should methodically look to get the ball centrally 5 yards outside the penalty box and start looking to draw fouls. Seems like the slightest push in the back is called these days if the player just falls over the ball.

Get JWP 3 to 4 chances a match.

It's not exactly the "beautiful game", but we are scrapping here.

-

** oh, and are his corners average? Or do we just not have anyone on the roster that can get their head on the ball? It takes two to tango.

Edited by SaintTex
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