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Everton 3-1 Saints - Match Thread


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So, away against a Top 8 team that has spent a ton of money, we had a pretty decent first half with both Livramento and A. Armstrong looking excellent. JWP filled in to allow Livramento to push forward, and the front two were causing the CDs a lot of problems.

I suspect Ralph’s half time instruction was to keep things tight, but it all went down the shitter in the first 90 seconds of the second half. The game-changer was on McCarthy because I should have heard one of two words all the way over here in Canada - “AWAY!!!!” or “KEEPER!!!!”. I’m pretty sure that Salisu – twelve feet away - heard neither, which is typical of McCarthy. Other than that I thought he played well – especially on crosses. Anyone who blames him for the next two goals is just trying to support their viewpoint that Forster should start. That may be so, but make the case without blaming McCarthy for goals that aren’t his fault.

After that, JWP stopped filling in for Livramento so that he could push forward, and that ended the threat on that side because Theo wasn’t doing anything. On the other side Djenepo was his usual uncontrolled, hurky-jurky mess, and Perraud couldn’t push forward because Djenepo is such unreliable cover.

I don’t think we’re ever the same side when S. Armstrong is not in it. Ralph has to figure out how to build on today’s positives with him in the team, but the two candidates to make way have to be Djenepo and Theo.

All in all there were more negatives than positives, but there WERE positives. This is not about whether we can win away at a Top 8 side, but whether we have enough to avoid relegation – or possibly even make it into the middle third.

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve been saying this for months, but evidently I’m a dinosaur stuck in the 70’s.
 

Look at them today, their keeper dishes it out regularly. Coleman puts his foot in and is vocal, Doucouré digs in and sets an example. 

Yep, Jimmy Case, Glenn Cockerill, Andy Townsend, Barry Horne. You think any of that lot would be doing the JWP shrug after a goal against?

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I’ve been saying this for months, but evidently I’m a dinosaur stuck in the 70’s.
 

Look at them today, their keeper dishes it out regularly. Coleman puts his foot in and is vocal, Doucouré digs in and sets an example. 

I know what your saying but Stephens does that for our team a lot so not sure it helps too much.

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3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I know what your saying but Stephens does that for our team a lot so not sure it helps too much.

Probably because he’s not respected by the other players. They were probably looking all starry-eyed at DCL and Richarlacunt.

Edited by OttawaSaint
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4 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

So, away against a Top 8 team that has spent a ton of money, we had a pretty decent first half with both Livramento and A. Armstrong looking excellent. 

Everton were 10th last season.
 

A game is 2 halves.  

Edited by Lord Duckhunter
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3 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

The game-changer was on McCarthy because I should have heard one of two words all the way over here in Canada - “AWAY!!!!” or “KEEPER!!!!”. I’m pretty sure that Salisu – twelve feet away - heard neither, which is typical of McCarthy.

If he didn't get a call he shouldn't have ducked under it.

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Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Absolutely. Fucking shocking from Salisu. What on earth was he thinking there. Killed us in an instant.

Also frustrating how deep we sit. We win the first header but we leave their guy freedom to head the ball straight back in.

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1 minute ago, badgerx16 said:

If he didn't get a call he shouldn't have ducked under it.

I completely agree but the problem was that I'm pretty sure he didn't get a call - or, at the least, an early one. Communication is one of McCarthy's biggest weaknesses.

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3 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

I know what your saying but Stephens does that for our team a lot so not sure it helps too much.

Stephens & OR are the two that have the right attitude and to some extent Bednarek. But we’re like a shitty version of Arsenal. Lots of technically good players, probably great trainers, easy to coach and decent lads. But, you need 4 or 5 rascals, 4 or 5 horrible blokes that opposition supporters and players hate. It’s not just about putting yourself about (although you need 2 or 3 that do). Just having that nasty edge,  Richarlison has it, and he doesn’t run round clogging people. We need some arrogance, some attitude. 

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4 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Stephens & OR are the two that have the right attitude and to some extent Bednarek. But we’re like a shitty version of Arsenal. Lots of technically good players, probably great trainers, easy to coach and decent lads. But, you need 4 or 5 rascals, 4 or 5 horrible blokes that opposition supporters and players hate. It’s not just about putting yourself about (although you need 2 or 3 that do). Just having that nasty edge,  Richarlison has it, and he doesn’t run round clogging people. We need some arrogance, some attitude. 

GIF by The Office

Agree we could do with a CB enforcer and that Croatian CB fits the part 100%

Edited by Convict Colony
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7 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Absolutely. Fucking shocking from Salisu. What on earth was he thinking there. Killed us in an instant.

Just watched the highlights, was raging when I saw that goal.

All that good work in the first half thrown away in a moment of madness. Typical us in recent times really.

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6 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Absolutely. Fucking shocking from Salisu. What on earth was he thinking there. Killed us in an instant.

Yeah the first one was on Salisu there. I think it was Perraud that had it covered and was then clattered by Salisu jumping on him and leaving Richarlie unmarked to lob in.

Overall, 2nd half Everton stepped it up and we just let them. No effective change from the bench, just fresh legs.

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Doesn’t look like we’re hurting when we concede. I remember Bruce G letting a soft shot through his hands and going absolutely nuts at the back 4. Keepers always used to take pride in clean sheets, were personally offended when a goal went in, lashing out at all around. Our 2 just shrug their shoulders and pick the ball out of the net. It runs right through the side. When was the last time you saw the manager bollocking a player or 2 players having a go. 

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McCarthy's name on the team sheet guarantees one thing. Saints will concede at least 2 goals. 

Face facts. Saints have done an excellent job of building a team fit for relegation. 

The defence was woeful last season and should have been the main focus throughout the summer. We've replaced our LB. Failed to strengthen at CB and bought a young RB who has somehow got a starting place over our best defender. 

That team selection was woeful. Ralph still doesn't know his best 11. He's fucking clueless and gutless. It's between him and Arteta for the first managerial casualty of the season. 

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So no surprise we lose at Goodison - after an excellent first half with us looking good and pretty much everything working well, I asked myself, "so how do we f*** this up?" and the answer was of course, let them back in early in the second half. Surely, the brief from Ralph at half-time had to be - just fight for everything to stop them from scoring in the first 10 minutes and counter a very predictable reaction from Everton.

I have been screaming for a stronger goalkeeper - I don't rate Mccarthy or Forster at this level - I agree a dominant goalkeeper would have claimed anything near his six-yard box...but their first goal was just 'one of those' that fell in between clear or leave and fell perfectly for Richarlson, so I don't blame McCarthy for that as much as Salisu not taking charge and getting his head to it. I don't blame him too much for the second or third either - second was right in the top corner, third super close-range and unlucky bounce off his leg.

We were better than I thought we would be. Livrameno - fantastic! A. Armstrong looked really sharp and he and Adams look like they will make a good partnership. Walcott should have been subbed earlier. Romeo not at his best, JWP needs to mix up his corners. Djenepo played well, just needs to make that final pass or shoot. 

Man Utd 5-1 winners with their tails up next week. Let's win that - stranger things have happened.

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I don’t like all this “we haven’t won there since 98” or “we never win the first game” talk. 

Everton were there for the taking and we did what we’ve been doing all year, burning ourselves out by HT and then conceding the most ball-achingly soft goals to piss away momentum and then just bending over for the oppo.

This culture has to change or we’re down!

Edited by OttawaSaint
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37 minutes ago, Convict Colony said:

but lets be real..... who thought we would win there and on the 1st day of the season.

Watch us beat man u next week.

Yes, if anything the fixture list was kind on us today. 1st game of the season combined with away at everton. 2 birds with one stone.

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29 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Doesn’t look like we’re hurting when we concede. I remember Bruce G letting a soft shot through his hands and going absolutely nuts at the back 4. Keepers always used to take pride in clean sheets, were personally offended when a goal went in, lashing out at all around. Our 2 just shrug their shoulders and pick the ball out of the net. It runs right through the side. When was the last time you saw the manager bollocking a player or 2 players having a go. 

Bruce was just trying to cover up his match fixing by overreacting , or have you forgotten ?

Edited by East Kent Saint
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1 hour ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I don’t think we will take ages to move him on if needs be, and like you I’m full of optimism for thy is year, still am a little. 
 

Couple more signing and a training video on the use of subs, and this time next year Rodney we’ll be champions of the Premier League 😂

Just worries me about replacements though. Am sure we would be an attractive proposition to some, but we probably missed a trick last season in not getting in Thomas Frank from Brentford. I know it was only one game, but last night they looked like all the things we aren't under Ralph. 

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20 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

McCarthy's name on the team sheet guarantees one thing. Saints will concede at least 2 goals. 

Face facts. Saints have done an excellent job of building a team fit for relegation. 

The defence was woeful last season and should have been the main focus throughout the summer. We've replaced our LB. Failed to strengthen at CB and bought a young RB who has somehow got a starting place over our best defender. 

That team selection was woeful. Ralph still doesn't know his best 11. He's fucking clueless and gutless. It's between him and Arteta for the first managerial casualty of the season. 

He’ll pick him again against Man U because Ralph is clueless about goalkeeping as well as defending. Just doesn’t seem interested, or in the fact that games aren’t all attacking at one particular pace and intensity. He really is the emperor’s new clothes. We’ll cotton on when it’s too late to save the season

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22 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Doesn’t look like we’re hurting when we concede. I remember Bruce G letting a soft shot through his hands and going absolutely nuts at the back 4. Keepers always used to take pride in clean sheets, were personally offended when a goal went in, lashing out at all around. Our 2 just shrug their shoulders and pick the ball out of the net. It runs right through the side. When was the last time you saw the manager bollocking a player or 2 players having a go. 

You say all that as if it helps somehow. The best ‘keeper I’ve seen play for Saints is Niemi and the Finns are hardly known for being confrontational gobsh*tes.

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I was surprised by he selections today. I think full strength we have armstrong romeu jwp and Tella in midfield? And then KWP should be starting RB.

Forster has to be first pick in goal vs united. Who are going to utterly murder us!

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49 minutes ago, CanadaSaint said:

So, away against a Top 8 team that has spent a ton of money, we had a pretty decent first half with both Livramento and A. Armstrong looking excellent. JWP filled in to allow Livramento to push forward, and the front two were causing the CDs a lot of problems.

I suspect Ralph’s half time instruction was to keep things tight, but it all went down the shitter in the first 90 seconds of the second half. The game-changer was on McCarthy because I should have heard one of two words all the way over here in Canada - “AWAY!!!!” or “KEEPER!!!!”. I’m pretty sure that Salisu – twelve feet away - heard neither, which is typical of McCarthy. Other than that I thought he played well – especially on crosses. Anyone who blames him for the next two goals is just trying to support their viewpoint that Forster should start. That may be so, but make the case without blaming McCarthy for goals that aren’t his fault.

After that, JWP stopped filling in for Livramento so that he could push forward, and that ended the threat on that side because Theo wasn’t doing anything. On the other side Djenepo was his usual uncontrolled, hurky-jurky mess, and Perraud couldn’t push forward because Djenepo is such unreliable cover.

I don’t think we’re ever the same side when S. Armstrong is not in it. Ralph has to figure out how to build on today’s positives with him in the team, but the two candidates to make way have to be Djenepo and Theo.

All in all there were more negatives than positives, but there WERE positives. This is not about whether we can win away at a Top 8 side, but whether we have enough to avoid relegation – or possibly even make it into the middle third.

First goal on Stephens for horrendous miss kick while attempting a simple clearance leading to a needlessly conceded corner. At this level that is criminal. Schoolboy error.

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53 minutes ago, stknowle said:

It appears he is just incapable of reading a game and changing it up when necessary. One move from the oppo's manager and he is done. You want to believe that it can't be the case and he'll learn but over and over again we see the same fucking thing so the conclusion has to be that it is the case. How about he changes formation/personnel/tactics at half time to keep his opponent on their toes? Why is it always us reacting and when we do too fucking late?

Exactly. If it's obvious to the fans, it should be to a so called professional football person. Benetitz is a decent manager, but even a National League manager would be able to out think Ralph tactically.

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6 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

First goal on Stephens for horrendous miss kick while attempting a simple clearance leading to a needlessly conceded corner. At this level that is criminal. Schoolboy error.

And before that we had a throw in after a dejected looking Richarlisson passed to a sub who was warming up.

It’s like our player thought, oh no, how unfortunate, I’ll give them the ball back and maybe they’ll be nice to us later.

Saints throw ins are one of three Saintsy flavours 

1) The throw it straight to an oppo player

2) The wait ages for the other team to get in position (aka the Bertrand)

3) The throw to neatest player who then hoiks it up the pitch to the other team.

Edited by OttawaSaint
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7 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Just worries me about replacements though. Am sure we would be an attractive proposition to some, but we probably missed a trick last season in not getting in Thomas Frank from Brentford. I know it was only one game, but last night they looked like all the things we aren't under Ralph. 

I think there are likely lots of good coaches out there that may be able to get a better tune out of our team. I’m still hoping Ralph can, and that today was just our usually Goodson trip, but not certain.

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2 minutes ago, Billy the Kidd said:

I think there are likely lots of good coaches out there that may be able to get a better tune out of our team. I’m still hoping Ralph can, and that today was just our usually Goodson trip, but not certain.

Yeah that's the big hope. Although the fixture list hasn't been too kind too us. The big fear is that when we  play, am loathe to say it a "winnable fixture", our confidence will be so rock bottom that we just cannot drag ourselves up

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10 minutes ago, Teddeer said:

First goal on Stephens for horrendous miss kick while attempting a simple clearance leading to a needlessly conceded corner. At this level that is criminal. Schoolboy error.

Not salissu then. Just let the ball go over his head and not dealing with it. Very strange, just blame stephens for everything.

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3 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Yeah that's the big hope. Although the fixture list hasn't been too kind too us. The big fear is that when we  play, am loathe to say it a "winnable fixture", our confidence will be so rock bottom that we just cannot drag ourselves up

Nah we will be fine, i mean what’s the worst that can happen 🤣

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6 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Not salissu then. Just let the ball go over his head and not dealing with it. Very strange, just blame stephens for everything.

Schoolboy stuff that. Never duck under the ball in the area if you are not 100% sure the keeper is coming. Even if he’d have headed it straight up in the air he’d have at least had a chance to regroup. I wonder whether the rotation of keepers is confusing them. Like “oh shit, forgot, this one doesn’t come for crosses...shit”. 

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11 minutes ago, Streaky said:

Not salissu then. Just let the ball go over his head and not dealing with it. Very strange, just blame stephens for everything.

Don't give away the cheap corner and the goal doesn't happen.

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1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Schoolboy stuff that. Never duck under the ball in the area if you are not 100% sure the keeper is coming. Even if he’d have headed it straight up in the air he’d have at least had a chance to regroup. I wonder whether the rotation of keepers is confusing them. Like “oh shit, forgot, this one doesn’t come for crosses...shit”. 

For me forster is the better keeper. Mccarthy is a slightly better kicker but not great. Wish we would settle on forster for a run of games. Salissu needs to improve quickly or we are bang in trouble. 

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Just now, Teddeer said:

Don't give away the cheap corner and the goal doesn't happen.

Giving away corners doesn't mean you've let a goal in. Deal with the corner. Not great from stephens I know. But harsh to blame the goal on him from the next phase of play

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1 hour ago, Convict Colony said:

but lets be real..... who thought we would win there and on the 1st day of the season.

Watch us beat man u next week.

Have you seen our record against Man Utd at St Mary's?

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I think I could handle things better if we were just shite. What's so infuriating is that we obviously have a bit about us when we play a bit of football and look dangerous. It makes it so much more disappointing when we inevitably toss it away by refusing to adapt during a game and allowing another team to get on top and see things out. Without ings to grab a game by the scruff of the neck I fear for us. Experience at the back or the middle of the park badly needed to avoid relegation imo. 

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36 minutes ago, Lee On Solent Saint said:

Yeah that's the big hope. Although the fixture list hasn't been too kind too us. The big fear is that when we  play, am loathe to say it a "winnable fixture", our confidence will be so rock bottom that we just cannot drag ourselves up

We now play Man Utd, Newcastle, West Ham and Man City, if its no points after that then likely we'll be rock bottom. 

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I thought Ralph was the manager. He seems confused when asked questions he turns into a reporter, reporting on what happened.. no shit Ralph, I think we all saw what happened, what I want to hear is why it happened, what you were thinking of doing, how you change it next time not to happen..

He is completely out of his depth and hoping that he discovers the right answer..this is going to be a rough ride 

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4 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

“Past performance is no guarantee of future performance”

Looking back over the last 18 months of league fixtures it bloody well is !

Edited by badgerx16
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This is a very unsurprisingly. We sold two of our best players. We have replaced them with one promising championship player, and a bunch of players miles off from the Chelsea side. Let's be frank. We are a premier League side and we need players that would be getting proper minutes for Chelsea (like bertrand) not players that are miles off from their first team. 

No saying those players are specifically the issue. But we clearly have downgraded our side in the short term when we have been awful since Christmas. We need some players for the here and now. Not two years from here

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