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3 minutes ago, Turkish said:

these "postive moves towards more inclusivity" include a anti racism gesture which has increased racial tension and wearing a t-shirt in an empty stadium. They're fucking nailing it mate.

Then, they will all do their utmost to 'make the plane' to the equal-rights mecca that is Qatar. Gays are most certainly not allowed in that village!

I bet the rainbow shirts do not quite get there.

Edited by AlexLaw76
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8 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

No because they felt unsafe. Let's say you are a gay man going to the football. And let's say you hear another gay man getting abused or harassed based on his sexuality. Maybe that is the last time you go the stadium. Maybe you go again, nothing happens. But a few weeks down the line, it happens again. You think 'Why would I want to keep going, cos what if that happens to me?' Why should someone be made to feel uncomfortable or even unsafe? And why is it so hard to empathise with that sort of situation?

You say no one would ever leave the house, but in all seriousness when was the last time you were made to feel like that? 

Do you have examples of abuse? Genuine question I'm interested to know. 

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Just now, AlexLaw76 said:

Then, they will all do their utmost to 'make the plane' to the equal-rights mecca that is Qatar.

I bet the rainbow shirts do not quite get there.

Exactly. I bet all the ones banging on about it on here wont have any problem watching the Qatar world cup either. 

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Madness that this has sparked such a debate, it's clearly a positive statement from the club about inclusivity, that's it, nothing more. Nobody is forcing anything down anyone's throat, it's there for the people that want it. 

By all means sit behind your keyboards and be angry about the fact the world has moved on from the 70s but to get upset by a colourful shirt to be worn for a 20 min warm up is really rather sad. 

Oh and for those using the Qatar World Cup as some sort of win, you're allowed to do your job and still oppose aspects of what and where it's being held. Look at Sebastien Vettel a few weeks ago at the Hungarian Grand Prix, he made a statement for by wearing a rainbow t-shirt, he was fined and he made his point. We move on. 

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2 minutes ago, SaintLondon said:

By all means sit behind your keyboards and be angry about the fact the world has moved on from the 70s but to get upset by a colourful shirt to be worn for a 20 min warm up is really rather sad. 

Sums it up really, people against this are really rather sad and pathetic. 

There is no real 'debate' here because that would suggest there is some controversy or that it's a complicated issue, when it isn't, its pretty obvious this is perfectly positive move by the club that no rational or intelligent human being could have an issue with. Which then obviously says a huge amount about the people that do. 

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15 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

It's not particularly difficult to work out with some men. If I think of my friends, particularly the couple I know who are United fans, the gaydar almost explodes. 

I used to work with a gay man, on occasion his partner would come to meet him from work and all the women in the office would say how much of a shame it was that the partner wasn't straight as they all found him attractive.

At a management seminar a God botherer walked up to the gay colleague and told him to his face, in front of everybody, that he was an abomination and would burn in Hell. His reply was that it wasn't going to happen as there is no God - the zealot went off seriously offended.

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5 minutes ago, badgerx16 said:

I used to work with a gay man, on occasion his partner would come to meet him from work and all the women in the office would say how much of a shame it was that the partner wasn't straight as they all found him attractive.

At a management seminar a God botherer walked up to the gay colleague and told him to his face, in front of everybody, that he was an abomination and would burn in Hell. His reply was that it wasn't going to happen as there is no God - the zealot went off seriously offended.

Ha good on him. Shoving it back in the face of bigots is the way to go. 

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15 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Do you have examples of abuse? Genuine question I'm interested to know. 

My memory is not great. I do know most of the incidents take place outside the stadium, particularly post match. A couple that come to mind.

I have no idea whether it was walking to or from the stadium. But a group of lads surrounded them and chanted some pretty horrible stuff at them. That was my Manchester friends who were holding hands as they walked either to or from the stadium. 

I know of another where someone tried to pour his pint over him (he knocked it out of his hands) and called him a fag in the pub. Again it was one of the Machester guys. I don't know of Saints incidents, but that's actually because I know very few Saints fans as I grew up in Sydney

I can ask for more though. It's not something we talk about much in all honesty. When we talk football, we want to talk about football, not bring up all the shit. But there absolutely have been incidents.

 

Edited by sydney_saint
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19 minutes ago, Turkish said:

these "postive moves towards more inclusivity" include a anti racism gesture which has increased racial tension and wearing a t-shirt in an empty stadium. They're fucking nailing it mate.

As you well know, thousands of people will have seen the social media posts today. To the point where the reach from that massively outstrips the number of fans that'll be in the ground on the day. There's more than one way to get a message across.

Do you support inclusivity (and are just unhappy with how this has been handled), or do you not?

Edited by ant
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9 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Well done on your principled stance. Shame the same cannot be said for others eh? 

I don't quite understand your point? There has been LGBT groups that oppose the Qatar World cup. There have been human rights groups that do as well. That tournament should never have been awarded to them, and certainly shouldn't be going ahead. 

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1 minute ago, sydney_saint said:

I don't quite understand your point? There has been LGBT groups that oppose the Qatar World cup. There have been human rights groups that do as well. That tournament should never have been awarded to them, and certainly shouldn't be going ahead. 

My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. 

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Does anyone know if it's possible to get a name and number printed on the back of this top? Tempted to get Black Lives Matter with heart shape NHS badges on the sleeves. Will look great at the match 👍

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Just now, hypochondriac said:

My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. 

Depends on what you mean by people. If you are talking about the Corporates like Sky and BT. Then no shit. They don't care about any of this. They are only getting involved in issues to try and make money from it. And absolutely give no shits about Qatar's awful record providing the money is right.

In terms of ordinary people, there are lots of people who do oppose it. I get what we are missing is an umbrella organisation that can centralise all the opposition, but there have certainly been campaigns from the likes of Oxfam, C4, Guardian etc to boycott. Hopefully as the season progresses we can build something meaningful, but we will need some footballers to break ranks.

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3 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

Depends on what you mean by people. If you are talking about the Corporates like Sky and BT. Then no shit. They don't care about any of this. They are only getting involved in issues to try and make money from it. And absolutely give no shits about Qatar's awful record providing the money is right.

In terms of ordinary people, there are lots of people who do oppose it. I get what we are missing is an umbrella organisation that can centralise all the opposition, but there have certainly been campaigns from the likes of Oxfam, C4, Guardian etc to boycott. Hopefully as the season progresses we can build something meaningful, but we will need some footballers to break ranks.

Genuinely well done to you if you're part of any opposition I think it's disgusting that they were awarded the tournament as its entirely corrupt. What's really needed is some of the players taking a stand as well. That would make a really difference. 

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19 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

My point is that certain people are happy to make empty gestures towards equality that achieve nothing (or even make situations worse) but when there's an opportunity to make a real statement by boycotting a tournament in a nation with a bit of appaling human rights record then there's largely silence. 

I agree, they should boycott Qatar but that doesn't make the shirt thing a bad idea, it's better than nothing and completely harmless.

You bang on about it as if they are being made to warm up in JUST the rainbow shirt.  

 

 

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2 minutes ago, aintforever said:

I agree, they should boycott Qatar but that doesn't make the shirt thing a bad idea, it's better than nothing and completely harmless.

You bang on about it as if they are being made to warm up in JUST the rainbow shirt.  

 

 

I wasn't talking about the rainbow shirt. Glad we agree. 

Edited by hypochondriac
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3 hours ago, hypochondriac said:

Not sure you know what virtue signalling is pal. 

Hey Buddy, just thought i'd help you with this dictionary definition. Depending on your values, i'm right.

 

Virtue Signalling

noun

the action or practice of publicly expressing opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.

 

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36 minutes ago, ant said:

As you well know, thousands of people will have seen the social media posts today. To the point where the reach from that massively outstrips the number of fans that'll be in the ground on the day. There's more than one way to get a message across.

Do you support inclusivity (and are just unhappy with how this has been handled), or do you not?

Depends what you mean by "support inclusivity" if you mean do i treat people regardless of colour, race, religion, sexuality on if they're a decent person or not than yes i do. If do you mean i support by jumping on as many bandwagons as possible constantly trying to prove to people i dont know what a lovely guy i am then no.

Edited by Turkish
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4 minutes ago, manzo said:

Pro tip: whenever you hear "woke" or "virtue signalling", replace them with "Don't be a c*nt to other people". If you're still angry after that, you might want to ask yourself some questions...

That's odd because some of the biggest c*nts I've ever met have been what would be described as woke and virtue signalling. It's almost like being a c*nt isn't confined to one political ideology. 

 

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1 hour ago, Turkish said:

Depends what you mean by "support inclusivity" if you mean do i treat people regardless of colour, race, religion, sexuality on if they're a decent person or not than yes i do. If do you mean i support by jumping on as many bandwagons as possible constantly trying to prove to people i dont know what a lovely guy i am then no.

Which is fine, of course, only I’ve never seen you been angry or hilariously sarcastic to racists, homophobes etc and yet one sniff of something too pc and you’re all over it. Interesting why one of those scenarios riles your sense of what’s right and the other doesn’t.

Edited by Chewy
Typo - riles, not rules
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23 minutes ago, Restark19 said:

Funny how it's vIrTuE sIgNaLlInG when its gay pride or black lives but not when it's poppys on shirts...

I thought we were all the same, so why do we need to promote/highlight/support how different we are?

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Just now, Chewy said:

Which is fine, of course, only I’ve never seen you been angry or hilariously sarcastic to racists, homophobes etc and yet one sniff of something too pc and you’re all over it. Interesting why one of those scenarios rules your sense of what’s right and the other doesn’t.

There aren’t any on here and you don’t know me in real life so you Wouldn’t have 

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1 hour ago, hypochondriac said:

political ideology. 

 

Not discriminating against people or hating people and then supporting causes or acts that highlight or speak out against that discrimination or hate is not a 'political ideology'.

It's just being a decent human being. Has nothing to do with politics. 

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1 hour ago, whelk said:

Who knew this would trigger some of the Saintsweb locals?

One things it’s triggering in me is my propensity for a migraine. I don’t get them much at all these days but staring at that shirt could set me off. It reminds of the Simpsons episode in Japan where they get frazzled by the TV advert.

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50 minutes ago, Turkish said:

I thought we were all the same, so why do we need to promote/highlight/support how different we are?

We are all the same in terms of our basic human rights. Our rights to education, access to health care, job opportunities, the right to express ourselves etc.

We are all different in terms of how we express that. Our differences vary on areas such as gender, sexuality, race, beliefs,  etc. and we should celebrate those differences providing someone's identity does not harm others. 

The issues is that there are a number of very clear examples where people are not allowing those to express themselves in a free manner. And that is why these sort of things are getting brought up.

Edited by sydney_saint
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18 minutes ago, tajjuk said:

Not discriminating against people or hating people and then supporting causes or acts that highlight or speak out against that discrimination or hate is not a 'political ideology'.

It's just being a decent human being. Has nothing to do with politics. 

Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. 

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16 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

We are all the same in terms of our basic human rights. Our rights to education, access to health care, job opportunities, the right to express ourselves etc.

We are all different in terms of how we express that. Our differences vary on areas such as gender, sexuality, race, beliefs,  etc. and we should celebrate those differences providing someone's identity does not harm others. 

The issues is that there are a number of very clear examples where people are not allowing those to express themselves in a free manner. And that is why these sort of things are getting brought up.

Why is there a need to celebrate anything? Part of this discussion has been about people not being comfortable attending football Because they are LGBT, it sounds like they just want to left alone to attend a match to the pub or do whatever they want in peace without anyone going on about their sexual orientation. What are we to celebrate? What do they want people to say?

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23 minutes ago, hypochondriac said:

Being woke has nothing to do with anti discrimination or hate. It actively hates and discriminates. 

woke
/wəʊk/
 
verb
  1. past of wake1.
     
adjective
INFORMALUS
  1. alert to injustice in society, especially racism.
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1 hour ago, Restark19 said:

Funny how it's vIrTuE sIgNaLlInG when its gay pride or black lives but not when it's poppys on shirts...

The Royal British Legion, which those shirts raise money for, are an active charity that have specific aims and methods to reach those aims. 

The reasoning behind this is a very vague "to increase inclusivity and fight discrimination", with no actual method except just wearing the shirt. I.E, Saints/Hummel's take all the plaudits for signalling their virtue without actually going to any effort at all to do something about what they're campaigning for.

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12 minutes ago, Turkish said:

Why is there a need to celebrate anything? Part of this discussion has been about people not being comfortable attending football Because they are LGBT, it sounds like they just want to left alone to attend a match to the pub or do whatever they want in peace without anyone going on about their sexual orientation. What are we to celebrate? What do they want people to say?

I think you are getting caught up on semantics of language there over a single word rather than the rest of the message. I was talking more generally about appreciating that people are different, and that they should be allowed to express that however they like.

Edited by sydney_saint
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God, it’s going to encourage more Nods to start supporting us.

 

“A third person added: "Oh god damn! Am I a Southampton fan now? Recently moved to the south coast - location and family ties would attach me to Pompey, but this is awesome! Well done #SaintsFC."

 

I’d say it’s condescending towards our gay supporters and totally needless. The sooner we stop this pony the better. 

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3 hours ago, Turkish said:

Exactly. I bet all the ones banging on about it on here wont have any problem watching the Qatar world cup either. 

Is Qatar going to be used to hold up about anything done in sport towards inclusion?

It is outrageous that they got the World Cup but doesn’t mean throw it at anything to highlight hypocrisy 

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2 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

God, it’s going to encourage more Nods to start supporting us.

 

“A third person added: "Oh god damn! Am I a Southampton fan now? Recently moved to the south coast - location and family ties would attach me to Pompey, but this is awesome! Well done #SaintsFC."

 

I’d say it’s condescending towards our gay supporters and totally needless. The sooner we stop this pony the better. 

Better than the racists that you are scared to stand up to surely?

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2 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I think you are getting caught up on semantics of language there over a single word rather than the rest of the message. I was talking more generally about appreciating that people are different, and that they should be allowed to express that however they like.

They already are and can can’t they? No one is stopping them. 

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