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Newcastle 2-2 Saints - Match Thread


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Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Can anyone explain to me what that means? I can guess but I’m not to sure.

XG looks at all the chances by both teams and judges how many they'd normally expect to score based on how good the chances were.

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Deserved at least the point. Showed some fight and determination throughout which was good to see.

Redmond excellent when he came on. Nice to see Mo score too. Djenepo just cracks me up, such a funny player. That miss really was hilarious.

Newcastle are pretty crap, they really only have one player who just happens to be very good. 

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2 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

They'll be absolutely fine, they'll probably be in and around it, but players like Saint-Maximin and Wilson will ensure they do enough at the other end to keep their heads above. They're the sort of players who can nick you a goal when you're not even in the game, as we saw today. Priceless players.

I'm amazed one of the so called bigger clubs hasn't offered a big wad of cash for Saint Maximin. Arsenal have blown close to 100M on bang average CB & Gk for instance.

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Salisu did well but we just have this dreadful habit of giving goals away.

Not sure what to make of Armstrong yet as I thought he and Che were poor today.

Romeu seems very slow at times with the ball and then gets caught in possession which I find frustrating.

Djeneppo is just not good enough.

Both fullbacks did well and Walker Peters looks ok at left back.

 

Edited by northam soul
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The best part of that injury time equaliser, other than rescuing a point, was seeing practically the whole of the BT Sport panel go silent after whooping and clapping the Newcastle second moments before. Nice unbiased commentary as usual. . .

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2 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

XG looks at all the chances by both teams and judges how many they'd normally expect to score based on how good the chances were.

I trsut djenepo more with a 20 yard curler than a two foot tap in, which XG is just never going to be able to factor in.

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3 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

XG looks at all the chances by both teams and judges how many they'd normally expect to score based on how good the chances were.

So we should have has at least 3 goals and Newcastle 1? But Newcastle got 2 so are they saying one of them should have been scored?

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11 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

I also don't think McCarthy did anything wrong today either. Not his biggest fan at all but he was ok today.

Salisu excellent. Adams and Armstrong didn't really work today, I think AA shoots a bit too much. Romeu and JWP had off days, except that superb penalty so fair play. Moi too was hit and miss, some nice positions and play, some not so.

Not gonna lie I’m more than happy with Armstrong shooting the way he does, nice change from previous seasons.

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6 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Can anyone explain to me what that means? I can guess but I’m not too sure.

It’s just another way of saying we were shit in front of goal and should have scored more than we did given the quality of chances we had. Expected goals based on quality of chances.

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9 minutes ago, S-Clarke said:

They'll be absolutely fine, they'll probably be in and around it, but players like Saint-Maximin and Wilson will ensure they do enough at the other end to keep their heads above. They're the sort of players who can nick you a goal when you're not even in the game, as we saw today. Priceless players.

Saint-Maximin is Adama Troare Mk 2, looks very good and dangerous, often little end product. He just seems to do well against us.

3 goals and 4 assists last year and exactly the same the year before.  Redmond has 6 goals and 7 assists in the same period........

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1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

So we should have has at least 3 goals and Newcastle 1? But Newcastle got 2 so are they saying one of them should have been scored?

Sort of, basically Newcastle had a good day where they got a bit luckier than expected with the chances they created going in, and we had a day where we were a bit unlucky with the chances we created going in.

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I've done my ratings. Furthermore, I have written them below. 

McCarthy - 6 - didn't do anything wrong. Didn't have to do anything particularly good.

Tino - 6 - Good first half but shows immaturity in holding the ball too long at times. Faded secomd half. Ralph is asking a lot of a guy who never played PL before and is 18. He deserves to be managed better.

Stephens - 6 - generally good, but did he lose his man for the first goal? I wasn't paying much attention to the replay, so maybe not.

Salisu - 7 - if Redmond hadn't been so good, he'd be our MoM. Handled most things very well. Looks good.

KWP - 7 - still one of our best players. Can't be left out of the XI.

Romeu - 5 - did some great battling work but got turned over several times. Looking like this will be a tough season for him as he's been fairly poor so far.

JWP - 7 - gets an extra point just for showing bottle for the pen. 

Djenepo - 4 - missed a sitter, missed a very good chance, dived several times. Should not be starting matches.

Elyounoussi - 6 - fair play for getting in the mixer and scoring but doesn't have the weapons for this level. Technically good but you need a bit more than that in our system. Hat-trick against Newport doesn't change that.

Adams - 5 - bit of an off day. It happens. 

Armstrong - 6 - not his day but kept showing for the ball and worked hard. Nice run for the pen.

Redmond - 9 - best player on the pitch. Poise, effort, dynamism, two great passes, two goals.

Felt a bit sorry for Ralph as he got let down by individuals but he's still getting his '10' picks wrong and he should let KWP and Perraud start a few matches.

We are still weak at CB and CM so let's hope Lyanco can add something. 

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33 minutes ago, ally_uk said:

Djenepo two great opportunities wasted at this level you need to take those chances..... abysmal finishing... 

Salisu is a unit absolute rock really good at reading the game on another level to Stephens.. 

Livramento won't be with us for long he looks on another level technical ability wise. 

Both strikers were meh today We need a number 10 to link the play. 

 

He's a unit and a half and been excellent this season, am excited to see lyanco play with him and hopefully diallo replaces romeu

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12 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

XG looks at all the chances by both teams and judges how many they'd normally expect to score based on how good the chances were.

Thanks for the explanation. Football doesn't really work like that though, so it's a pointless stat.

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4 minutes ago, Jimmy_D said:

Sort of, basically Newcastle had a good day where they got a bit luckier than expected with the chances they created going in, and we had a day where we were a bit unlucky with the chances we created going in.

Got it.

So how do they decide, is this objective or subjective?

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3 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

so it's a pointless stat.

It's not a pointless stat at all, its about judging the quality of chances created, if your XG is generally high it means you are generally doing well and creating good chances.

It's a stat that shows what anyone saw today, we were the better team and Newcastle were clearly lucky. 

Edited by tajjuk
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1 minute ago, niceandfriendly said:

Thanks for the explanation. Football doesn't really work like that though, so it's a pointless stat.

XG pretty consistently averages out to a team's actual goals over time. It certainly has its flaws, but 'tis proving to be a useful statistic. It almost always lines up with the 'we were robbed' feelings of fans.

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1 minute ago, tajjuk said:

It's not a pointless stat at all, its about judging the quality of chances created, if your XG is generally high it means you are generally doing well and creating good chances, which eventually will go in.

Ok great. That's what shots on target is for. Some people score from the halfway line, is that included in XG? Some goalkeepers score woeful own goals out of nothing, where does that show up? I know Jamie Carragher likes it, but doesn't mean it's worth talking about. Expected f*cking goals. Such a nonsense. 

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1 minute ago, niceandfriendly said:

Ok great. That's what shots on target is for. Some people score from the halfway line, is that included in XG? Some goalkeepers score woeful own goals out of nothing, where does that show up? I know Jamie Carragher likes it, but doesn't mean it's worth talking about. Expected f*cking goals. Such a nonsense. 

XG is much better than bollocks shots on target which means absolutely fck all.

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2 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

Got it.

So how do they decide, is this objective or subjective?

As objective as possible, it's based on position of the chance, the ball into them, position of defenders, plus a few other factors, all compared to thousands of previous chances, but obviously someone has to input the data.

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41 minutes ago, It's There said:

Once we start being more clinical, we're going to give someone a pasting.

someone like Newport maybe 🙂

18 minutes ago, gammon cheeks said:

6 goals conceded in 3 games tells us where the problem lies... Should have won the game as Newcastle were pretty gash .

cut out 1 against Newcastle and 1 against Man U and we are on 6 points and 8th place instead of 2 points and 13th. (but probably every supporter could do this type of calculus for their club)

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2 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

Ok great. That's what shots on target is for. Some people score from the halfway line, is that included in XG? Some goalkeepers score woeful own goals out of nothing, where does that show up? I know Jamie Carragher likes it, but doesn't mean it's worth talking about. Expected f*cking goals. Such a nonsense. 

Sure, that's where XG would be lower than actual goals, because someone's scored a chance that wouldn't normally go in.

If you lose 1-0 to a single goal from the halfway line, and that was the biggest chance they had, normally you'd feel like you were pretty unlucky, and XG would reflect that.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy_D said:

As objective as possible, it's based on position of the chance, the ball into them, position of defenders, plus a few other factors, all compared to thousands of previous chances, but obviously someone has to input the data.

Ah ok cool. Then it’s a very useful stat IMO. Far better than shots on because you could have a few scuffers count as on when they were never gong in and the other team hit a post or two.

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1 minute ago, niceandfriendly said:

It's all rubbish. Just watch the game. I guess anyone born after 2000 would appreciate XG, anyone else can just ignore it. 

And if you haven’t been able to watch the game?

Not sure why it’s such a problem. It’s just another stat to sit alongside shots on target,,possession etc to help describe the game in a short summary. 

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This game was typical Ralph.

Too many players too far advanced. This happens time after time after time… Ralph has shown he is incapable of addressing this simple issue.

Two players up front who are marked and the rest of the team ending up too far forward to try and get the ball to them. We need one up front and control midfield ensuring there is always cover (something Ralph is obviously oblivious to) 

Sorry but Ralph’s coaching is seriously limited. We continue to demonstrate identical mistakes game after game, year after year.

We are turning the corner on recruitment, however not sure that Ralph is advancing at all….

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1 minute ago, OttawaSaint said:

Ah ok cool. Then it’s a very useful stat IMO. Far better than shots on because you could have a few scuffers count as on when they were never gong in and the other team hit a post or two.

I like it. https://understat.com/league/EPL is the site I use for an at a glance look at how the day's games have gone behind the scoreline.

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Excellent first half, undermined by very poor final balls. That didn’t change until Redmond (of all people) came on. The “score when you’re on top or pay the price” bell was ringing loud and clear.

I think this pre game post was prescient:

3 hours ago, Saint_clark said:

KWP at left back could unbalance us. Otherwise pretty happy with that team.

KWP looked great going forward but both Newcastle goals came from his quadrant, and Salisu rescued some other problems out there. I’m far from convinced about playing him there because our depth chart becomes three LB/LWB and 1 RB/RWB. I’d still like to see Ralph try KWP and Tino on the same side.

 I wish Ralph would tell Stephens not to carry the ball forward because he then gives it away six times out of ten, with acres of fast break space behind him.

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Newcastle would be nothing without St Maximin, he is such a dangerous player. Quite surprised no bigger clubs have made a move for him.

Would have been a travesty if we didn't get at least a point from that but it's the same old defensive frailties costing us along with not taking chances at the other end.

Salisu on the whole was immense, and pleasantly surprised by Moi who had a very decent game. Looks like he may give us another viable option in the '10' position. I'm no fan of McCarthy but he did ok too, particularly on crosses and couldn't be blamed for the goals.

Thought Romeu had a poor game especially in the first half, very sloppy in possession.

All in all not a bad point, just wish we could learn to be more ruthless when on top. Oh and brilliant pressure penalty from Prowsey!

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3 minutes ago, The Kraken said:

And if you haven’t been able to watch the game?

Not sure why it’s such a problem. It’s just another stat to sit alongside shots on target,,possession etc to help describe the game in a short summary. 

Not a problem, as I said, you enjoy it all you wish. Just like it doesn't matter how many Instagram friends a certain player has. The kids like to talk about it, doesn't mean it's important.

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1 minute ago, Jimmy_D said:

I like it. https://understat.com/league/EPL is the site I use for an at a glance look at how the day's games have gone behind the scoreline.

Thanks!

So us, Norwich and Brentford should all be either considered a bit unlucky or ruing missed chances today.

I guess the stat can’t distinguish between being unlucky and missing a sitter?

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Just now, OttawaSaint said:

Thanks!

So us, Norwich and Brentford should all be either considered a bit unlucky or ruing missed chances today.

I guess the stat can’t distinguish between being unlucky and missing a sitter?

Not from a single match. Over time you can judge a player, for example Ings consistently scored above XG for us.

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1 minute ago, niceandfriendly said:

Not a problem, as I said, you enjoy it all you wish. Just like it doesn't matter how many Instagram friends a certain player has. The kids like to talk about it, doesn't mean it's important.

I don’t think anyone has said it’s important. It’s simply another statistic that helps depict a football game. 

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2 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

Ok great. That's what shots on target is for. Some people score from the halfway line, is that included in XG? Some goalkeepers score woeful own goals out of nothing, where does that show up? I know Jamie Carragher likes it, but doesn't mean it's worth talking about. Expected f*cking goals. Such a nonsense. 

You are talking nonsense about something you clearly don't really understand. As said above shots on target is irrelevant, one team could have 10 30 yard shots straight at the keeper and the other team has two tap in chances. 

It's about the quality of chances and how likely on average those chances should be scored. 

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2 minutes ago, OttawaSaint said:

So us, Norwich and Brentford should all be either considered a bit unlucky or ruing missed chances today.

more like Norwich is unlucky starting the season with Liverpool, City, and Leicester.

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Just now, SaintTex said:

more like Norwich is unlucky starting the season with Liverpool, City, and Leicester.

The bottom four teams have played a total of 10 games and haven't got a single point between them.

From the fixtures we've had so far, 2 points is a decent return.

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4 minutes ago, Nordic Saint said:

The bottom four teams have played a total of 10 games and haven't got a single point between them.

From the fixtures we've had so far, 2 points is a decent return.

Agreed. We were expecting the very worst with these first 5 fixtures. Two draws is decent vs teams we usually lose to in those fixtures (yes I know MLG).

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1 hour ago, Pamplemousse said:

2 points better off compared to last season's corresponding fixtures

Exactly this! You know, I may rekindle the points/GD comparison to previous season thing I used to do back in the Puel and Pellegrino days (I stopped doing it mainly because I got too busy, but about to become a Darren Anderton for a few months so should have plenty of time until at least New Year).

As for those saying WE got lucky, I disagree. I think Newcastle got lucky. I also think Ralph got everything spot on again today - selection and subs. We were by far the better team. Hats off to Moi, he played very well today - on top of his mid-week hat-trick. If he were a new player we had signed from Celtic (especially given his goal/assist stats from last season) most people on here would be going nuts about him. JWP also played well, and that was a pen even Sir Ricky would have been proud of. Redders made an impact when he came on, setting up the goal and pen. But my MoM has to go to Salisu. What an upgrade he is on Vest!

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42 minutes ago, niceandfriendly said:

XG is up there with "what's his FIFA rating"? The young'uns get all excited about it, the rest of us are left scratching our heads and dreaming of days gone by. ;)

Nope, I’m miles older than being born this century and appreciate and understand xG and stuff. 

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