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cUnacceptable inconsistency and appalling standard of referees


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I used to take the view that refereeing is extremely difficult and make allowances.

However VAR has changed all that and there should be no mistakes and real consistency.

Compare and contrast James Milner staying on the pitch after three fouls, two very violent and intentional and one denying a goal scoring chance. All three deserved a straight red in my view but for some inexplicable reason he remained on the pitch and Liverpool gained an undeserved point.

James Ward Prowse who hasn't been red carded for years, makes a rash challenge trying to get to the ball first. NBB not a tackle and definitely no intent to injure, makes virtually no contact and after our nemesis Mike King reviews it, is sent off, thus changing the course of a closely fought match.

Obviously one will draw one's own conclusions about big club favouritism , incompetence and outright cheating. 

The libel laws prevent one from saying very much but one thing is absolutely certain and that is that the refereeing and use of VAR in the Prem need a forensic examination by a suitably qualified person/s if VAR is going to be used correctly and referees are going to keep the confidence of players, managers and supporters.

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To me VAR is using infallible video evidence (it's right there on camera) by fallible human beings. Until you remove the human element, somehow, there will always be mistakes, even by those watching replays. What can be done the change it? Improve the technology somehow? Sure. Improve the standard of refereeing? Sure. VAR is still in it's infancy so we probably have a few more seasons of annoyance to go yet before it's anywhere close to perfection.

 

Other ideas? Foreign refs in our league to stopped bias? Lines drawn on the pitch by grounds staff as a guideline?

 

Refs are annoying though - your title is missing a "T" as the fourth letter. 🙂

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6 hours ago, cambsaint said:

I used to take the view that refereeing is extremely difficult and make allowances.

However VAR has changed all that and there should be no mistakes and real consistency.

Compare and contrast James Milner staying on the pitch after three fouls, two very violent and intentional and one denying a goal scoring chance. All three deserved a straight red in my view but for some inexplicable reason he remained on the pitch and Liverpool gained an undeserved point.

James Ward Prowse who hasn't been red carded for years, makes a rash challenge trying to get to the ball first. NBB not a tackle and definitely no intent to injure, makes virtually no contact and after our nemesis Mike King reviews it, is sent off, thus changing the course of a closely fought match.

Obviously one will draw one's own conclusions about big club favouritism , incompetence and outright cheating. 

The libel laws prevent one from saying very much but one thing is absolutely certain and that is that the refereeing and use of VAR in the Prem need a forensic examination by a suitably qualified person/s if VAR is going to be used correctly and referees are going to keep the confidence of players, managers and supporters.

As I understood it VAR was only for "clear and obvious errors", has that mandate changed? Because truthfully there was no clear and obvious error in the initial yellow card and Mike Dean as the VAR overstepped, on that basis I think Saints should appeal it and point out all the previous incidents with Mike Dean. Sure in slow-motion at the side of the pitch in an emotional atmosphere, yes I can see why the on-pitch referee gave a red but it shouldn't have come to that point in the first place.

The PL has to make its mind up, is VAR allowed to second judge all on-pitch referee calls in slow motion or only the "clear and obvious", and define what that means. Sure if the on-pitch referee cannot see something, or the action is too fast and or can be objectively measured (goal line, maybe offside) then sure, but when the referee has a clear view and makes a call in real-time, then no, forget it.

Edited by HnycS
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The world is full of statements like 'clear and obvious'.  The ones that spring to mind are 'as far as reasonably practicable' and 'beyond all reasonable doubt'.

The problem with VAR as I see it is that people are having to make very quick decisions in a pressure cooker situation and that underlying prejudice and fear of upsetting 'the wrong people' is blurring the thought process.  Add into the mix the potential 'well they were hard done by last week, so I'll do them a solid this time round' issue then you have a system that is probably as flawed as the previous one, but in different ways.

I think they should have just stopped at goal line technology, which has generally been great.  Either that or literally only use VAR for clear offsides and once in a blue moon stuff that we talk about for years afterwards (e.g. Hand of God, Mark Hughes' phantom goal against Leeds, that type of thing). 

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3 hours ago, HnycS said:

As I understood it VAR was only for "clear and obvious errors", has that mandate changed? Because truthfully there was no clear and obvious error in the initial yellow card and Mike Dean as the VAR overstepped, on that basis I think Saints should appeal it and point out all the previous incidents with Mike Dean. Sure in slow-motion at the side of the pitch in an emotional atmosphere, yes I can see why the on-pitch referee gave a red but it shouldn't have come to that point in the first place.

The PL has to make its mind up, is VAR allowed to second judge all on-pitch referee calls in slow motion or only the "clear and obvious", and define what that means. Sure if the on-pitch referee cannot see something, or the action is too fast and or can be objectively measured (goal line, maybe offside) then sure, but when the referee has a clear view and makes a call in real-time, then no, forget it.

Which is how it was deployed at the Euros in the summer. No idea why the PL VARs are seemingly applying it differently.

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9 hours ago, cambsaint said:

I used to take the view that refereeing is extremely difficult and make allowances.

However VAR has changed all that and there should be no mistakes and real consistency.

Compare and contrast James Milner staying on the pitch after three fouls, two very violent and intentional and one denying a goal scoring chance. All three deserved a straight red in my view but for some inexplicable reason he remained on the pitch and Liverpool gained an undeserved point.

James Ward Prowse who hasn't been red carded for years, makes a rash challenge trying to get to the ball first. NBB not a tackle and definitely no intent to injure, makes virtually no contact and after our nemesis Mike King reviews it, is sent off, thus changing the course of a closely fought match.

Obviously one will draw one's own conclusions about big club favouritism , incompetence and outright cheating. 

The libel laws prevent one from saying very much but one thing is absolutely certain and that is that the refereeing and use of VAR in the Prem need a forensic examination by a suitably qualified person/s if VAR is going to be used correctly and referees are going to keep the confidence of players, managers and supporters.

What a load of vacuous tosh!

We lose because we aren't good enough to win. Nothing to do with referees.

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Yep too many forgetting VAR kept us in the game as Werner’s first goal should have stood to be honest.

My injustices with VAR this season has only been the Walker challenge, then the Old Trafford and Cash handball last season.

Football is a subjective game, not as clear cut as LBW in Cricket or Hawkeye in tennis.

Also almost all offside incidents from last season annoyed me but this season they’re doing a better job of it tbf.

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2 minutes ago, nta786 said:

Yep too many forgetting VAR kept us in the game as Werner’s first goal should have stood to be honest.

My injustices with VAR this season has only been the Walker challenge, then the Old Trafford and Cash handball last season.

Football is a subjective game, not as clear cut as LBW in Cricket or Hawkeye in tennis.

Also almost all offside incidents from last season annoyed me but this season they’re doing a better job of it tbf.

Two wrongs don’t make it right. Neither initial decision was obviously wrong and VAR, that is Mike Dean, should have kept out of it. It should kept in reserve for howlers, not differences of opinion. And it kills the rhythm of the game.

I don’t like it. Never have.

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5 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

Two wrongs don’t make it right. Neither initial decision was obviously wrong and VAR, that is Mike Dean, should have kept out of it. It should kept in reserve for howlers, not differences of opinion. And it kills the rhythm of the game.

I don’t like it. Never have.

To be fair other than on here, have you found any other professional opinion who thinks that it should be a yellow card?

I still think its a yellow too for reference, but then I think a) football is going soft and b) I have an element of bias being a Saints fan

However, if a Chelsea player had got sent off for that challenge, I’d have thought we got lucky if an opposing player got a red card. 

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10 hours ago, cambsaint said:

 

Compare and contrast James Milner staying on the pitch after three fouls, two very violent and intentional and one denying a goal scoring chance. All three deserved a straight red in my view 

Load of old pony. 
 

Straight reds, 😂 

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The more I see of VAR I'm beginning to think they have it the wrong way round. For offsides, fine, use it like they are, it's factual, it's either on or off however close. Probably applies to was it inside outside the area for penalties as well.

But anything else, fouls, handballs etc that's what I think they now have the wrong eway round. JWP red card the perfect example. It should be up to the ref to request to see a VAR review on the monitor, not be told to go and see it. And if he feels the need to review it then that should be done BEFORE indicating any decision. JWP case definitely a free kick, but if unsure as to punishment the ref should then request the monitor BEFORE showing a card. No need for players or crowd to even know what it is he's checking for till the decision is made. It could even increase the excitement factor in the crowd not knowing if a penalty has been given or if the forwards being checked for a yellow for diving.  If he is confident of his on pitch decision no need to review. This would get rid of the"changed his mind" controversies. The VAR should be there to assist the ref not instruct him.

Even penalty incidents, if ref is unsure play continues but there could be a signal to players and VAR officials tha t he wants something checked which he can review at first opportunity - not VAR tell him to check for something they think he missed (or may have seen and considered ok).

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My opinion is exactly the same as it was before it was brought in.  Use it for black / white decisions - Offsides, goal line tech, even whose throw in it is or corner vs GK.  But don't use it when there is manual intervention involved.  And the whole "clear and obvious" thing, was essentially footballs version of umpires call in cricket.  But it doesn't work in football, because the end result is still subjective. 

Tackles always look way worse in slow motion, and are 100% influenced by the home side, especially if it's a big stadium.  It's now got to the point that if the ref goes to the monitor the decision is overturned.  Prowsey's at the weekend was a booking, no more.

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All decisions against us are because the refs have an agenda,     all decisions for us are 100% correct and deserved.

 

says any football supporter of any team in any year.

 

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2 hours ago, nta786 said:

To be fair other than on here, have you found any other professional opinion who thinks that it should be a yellow card?

I still think its a yellow too for reference, but then I think a) football is going soft and b) I have an element of bias being a Saints fan

However, if a Chelsea player had got sent off for that challenge, I’d have thought we got lucky if an opposing player got a red card. 

I quoted Peter Walton who said that VAR should not have got involved. That doesn't say that it shouldn't have been a red but other than this forum nobeody else gives a toss about Saints so not much comment anywhere.

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I think there are a few things that are wrong. First is the leadership at the top. Mike Riley was a shit referee, and making him in charge of these muppets is a recipe for disaster. Hugely out of his depth, arrogant and doesn't understand football. I'm not surprised the refs last were inconsistent. The messaging from the top was hugely inconsistent and an utter mess. The refs should still have been better, but fuck me we had about five interpretations of the handball rule in one season. When you have a bunch of non talented refs, you should at least give them a consistent framework to work with. Instead we have shit refs with shit tools. 

More has to be done to retain referees at grassroots level. I'm not sure what the drop out rates are, but I see Kent said they had a 24% drop in officials last season. Partly covid, but also mostly the conditions. They need to go down hard on people who abuse refs. It's ridiculous how normalised it is to abuse a 16 year old refereeing some 10 year olds. Increase the pool of refs, and we will see standards go up.

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28 minutes ago, sydney_saint said:

I think there are a few things that are wrong. First is the leadership at the top. Mike Riley was a shit referee, and making him in charge of these muppets is a recipe for disaster. Hugely out of his depth, arrogant and doesn't understand football. I'm not surprised the refs last were inconsistent. The messaging from the top was hugely inconsistent and an utter mess. The refs should still have been better, but fuck me we had about five interpretations of the handball rule in one season. When you have a bunch of non talented refs, you should at least give them a consistent framework to work with. Instead we have shit refs with shit tools. 

More has to be done to retain referees at grassroots level. I'm not sure what the drop out rates are, but I see Kent said they had a 24% drop in officials last season. Partly covid, but also mostly the conditions. They need to go down hard on people who abuse refs. It's ridiculous how normalised it is to abuse a 16 year old refereeing some 10 year olds. Increase the pool of refs, and we will see standards go up.

As an ex local referee myself I heartily agree.

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IMO most Refs attempt to be fair, however Mike Dean makes too many mistakes in Saints games (always against Saints), I'm going to add JWP decision on Sat to the list

  1. Failed to send Alonso off when he attempted to break Shane Long leg (April 2018).https://www.southamptonfc.com/news/2018-04-15/highlights-southampton-chelsea-premier-league-1718  (approx 5 mins in). AFTER the game the FA gave Alonso a 3 match ban, however his 2 assists when he shouldn't have been on the pitch is hard to take. 
  2. Var decision to send off Ryan B after 12 mins in the 9-0 defeat v Leicester.
  3. Sent off Bednarek in Man utd 9-0 defeat when replays show there was no contact with Martial - the VAR ref called him over after he gave the Pen and he compounded the error by sending Bednarak off when there was NO contact. Overturned by the FA.   
  4. Var decisions in the 1-0 defeat to Villa last season - Clear Handball by Villa player he failed to give the Pen and send the player off.
  5. As Above, gave Offside in the 91min against Ings to overrule a good goal, the Var picture with the lines showed the ball had already left Ryan boot, if it had been produced when Ryan B had the shot, Ings would have been onside imo. https://www.southamptonfc.com/2021/01/30/highlights-southampton-aston-villa-premier-league-2020-21
    fit=scale
    An extended look at the key talking points of Saturday night's encounter.
    www.southamptonfc.com
  6. Sent Off Redmond in 2016 v Spurs   https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10710684/watch-nathan-redmonds-red-card-was-harsh-says-jamie-redknapp
  7. skysports-dele-alli-tottenham-southampto
    Jamie Redknapp thinks Southampton's Nathan Redmond was harshly sent off against Tottenham - watch him analyse the incident. Dele Alli struck twice as Spurs battled from a goal down to beat 10-man ...
    www.skysports.com
  8.  
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4 hours ago, sydney_saint said:

I think there are a few things that are wrong. First is the leadership at the top. Mike Riley was a shit referee, and making him in charge of these muppets is a recipe for disaster. Hugely out of his depth, arrogant and doesn't understand football. I'm not surprised the refs last were inconsistent. The messaging from the top was hugely inconsistent and an utter mess. The refs should still have been better, but fuck me we had about five interpretations of the handball rule in one season. When you have a bunch of non talented refs, you should at least give them a consistent framework to work with. Instead we have shit refs with shit tools. 

More has to be done to retain referees at grassroots level. I'm not sure what the drop out rates are, but I see Kent said they had a 24% drop in officials last season. Partly covid, but also mostly the conditions. They need to go down hard on people who abuse refs. It's ridiculous how normalised it is to abuse a 16 year old refereeing some 10 year olds. Increase the pool of refs, and we will see standards go up.

I agree that the pool needs to increase and some of the intimidation is disgusting. It was bad even in Tyro League in the 1980s let alone now. Mike Riley was also dreadful, Durkin or Webb were miles better, Halsey as well. Peter Walton commentating on referees is a joke as well, just re-watch Saints v Brighton in the Champ in 2011 and your jaw drops at the incompetence. 

I In the short term, I can see this won’t be a one off https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/jared-gillett-referee-australian-who-premier-league-watford-vs-newcastle-1209077 - I would actively recruit from non UEFA leagues if people want to work and study here in careers meeting the visa criteria and then see if they can fast track through the system to shift to refereeing FT here. That’s until the pool improves and we can field the best of England and the world at PL matches as we do for the players (well mostly…).

That has to be better than people like Dean hanging on through VAR when he is past his sell by date and was shit even before that. That list of bloopers from Saint John you could replicate for most regular PL clubs over the last 10 years. He didn’t cost SFC the game at Chelsea but couldn’t help but try and dominate proceedings through VAR because of his ego. 

One of the big things which needs to change in referee training as people rise through the system is game management and not being the star. The ref for the Saints v Wolves game was decent (better than the players as he at least tried to help a game of football break out amongst the mediocrity), wouldn’t mind having him again. Andy Madley was it? 

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Firstly I would like to make it clear the small c at the beginning of the title was a typo, probably should have edited it.

Although a Saints supporter for over sixty years, I hope I'm not blinded by emotion.

When VAR came in as a cricket fan I thought it would be a good thing as reviews in cricket have by and large been completely positive.

However in the Prem imo it has been by and large disastrous. In the Euros it worked very well.

My post was made in the hope that some good debate would be engendered.

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Why not put the onus on the teams to decide when VAR should be used?

IF each team had 2 reviews at the beginning of the game (like they do in cricket), and lost one review each time the ref's decision isn't overturned, they would soon learn to only look at incidents that were 'clearly and obviously' wrong.

This would have the added benefit of increasing the quality of refereeing decisions as the refs wouldn't want to be proved wrong....

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12 hours ago, cambsaint said:

Firstly I would like to make it clear the small c at the beginning of the title was a typo, probably should have edited it.

Although a Saints supporter for over sixty years, I hope I'm not blinded by emotion.

When VAR came in as a cricket fan I thought it would be a good thing as reviews in cricket have by and large been completely positive.

However in the Prem imo it has been by and large disastrous. In the Euros it worked very well.

My post was made in the hope that some good debate would be engendered.

The only time it didnt work well in the Euros was when a VAR call was judged by the english officials and it took an age.

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Referees were struggling with the task so we gave them excellent technology support.

The mistake was asking the same people who were struggling with the task to operate it.

Some decisions are difficult and could go either way, others are bloody obvious to everyone - and too many of the latter are still happening on a weekly basis.

As for Mike Dean, I hope he's just totally out of his depth.

I feel sorry for the gambling sites that take bets on penalties and cards.

 

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Yep, we saw how well VAR can be used in the Euros, it was working in the background, taking nothing away from the match itself. Whereas, in the Premier League, it's still the forefront of matches and causing much debate. The standard of refereeing in this country is just shocking, and what's scarier is that the Championship officiating is still much worse than what we see every week. A lot is said about how great the league is, but the officiating quality doesn't match and it's the same old officials getting it wrong every year. Seems to be a job for the boys. Just the other week, Anthony Taylor showed himself up by giving a player who hadn't been booked a second yellow card and then sending him off.

Embarrassing.

Lets not start on the ex-referees who are used on TV and are too scared to go against the decision of their ex-colleague, again all very cliquey.

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23 hours ago, Wurzel said:

Even penalty incidents, if ref is unsure play continues but there could be a signal to players and VAR officials that he wants something checked which he can review at first opportunity - not VAR tell him to check for something they think he missed (or may have seen and considered ok).

If you were to do this (there could also be the potential for this the way VAR is used now), and play continues while decisions are being reviewed then what happens if the other team goes and scores a perfectly good goal from open play, only for VAR to pull it back to an earlier incident down the other end of the pitch some two minutes previously? 

For example it's pulled back for free kick which leads to nothing, meanwhile the opposition have their 'good goal' cancelled out by the decision to award the innocuous free kick, and the passage of play that they would have had from that position that led to the goal is then gone.

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19 minutes ago, st alex said:

If you were to do this (there could also be the potential for this the way VAR is used now), and play continues while decisions are being reviewed then what happens if the other team goes and scores a perfectly good goal from open play, only for VAR to pull it back to an earlier incident down the other end of the pitch some two minutes previously? 

For example it's pulled back for free kick which leads to nothing, meanwhile the opposition have their 'good goal' cancelled out by the decision to award the innocuous free kick, and the passage of play that they would have had from that position that led to the goal is then gone.

Pretty sure that scenario has already happened under the current system, certainly Man Utd were given a penalty (which they scored to win the game) at Brighton AFTER the players and referee were  walking off after the full time whistle had been blown. You could argue Chelsea's goal disallowed for Dave's foul on KWP was 2 or 3 phases after the "foul".  Difference is in my scenario the ref would have signalled to players and fans that play could continue but he wants that particular incident reviewed, so if the goal does end up ruled out it's not entirely unexpected. I'm sure some goals that are currently disallowed come as much of a surprise to the ref as it does to the crowd and players.

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I remain convinced the only way to change this is to make being VAR a separate job role. Linos don’t ref one week and run the line the next. I’d get your Graham Polls, Clattenbergs etc, blokes too old to run round pitch and stick them in to VAR. 

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Interesting Q&A about VAR from ESPN. This bit was a surprise to me in light of Sat game. Looks like the screen is not used for the ref to decide, it’s for him to confirm he’s made a mistake. 

 

Why doesn't the referee use the monitor more often?
One of the regular comments from managers and pundits is that the referee should "go and have another look" at the monitor to check his decision. But this is not what the monitor is for. It is only used when the referee has made a "clear and obvious" error, ergo the VAR has told him the decision is wrong and referee uses the monitor to confirm the decision will be changed. The monitor quite simply isn't for the referee to check his decision, it's to change it.

 

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21 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I remain convinced the only way to change this is to make being VAR a separate job role. Linos don’t ref one week and run the line the next. I’d get your Graham Polls, Clattenbergs etc, blokes too old to run round pitch and stick them in to VAR. 

Agree and also chuck in some ex-players (obviously with no affinity to the teams playing) and you would have less chance of them just blindly backing their ref mates for the sake of it !

 

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Congratulations to Mike Dean last Saturday 😀

He wasn't even at Stamford Bridge yet he managed to piss off both managers and both sets of supporters !

He's a peacock / attention seeker which is not a great trait for a top level referree IMO !

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3 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

Interesting Q&A about VAR from ESPN. This bit was a surprise to me in light of Sat game. Looks like the screen is not used for the ref to decide, it’s for him to confirm he’s made a mistake. 

 

Why doesn't the referee use the monitor more often?
One of the regular comments from managers and pundits is that the referee should "go and have another look" at the monitor to check his decision. But this is not what the monitor is for. It is only used when the referee has made a "clear and obvious" error, ergo the VAR has told him the decision is wrong and referee uses the monitor to confirm the decision will be changed. The monitor quite simply isn't for the referee to check his decision, it's to change it.

 

Just to continue the Mike Dean hate train, he went to view the monitor for the Jan Bednarek penalty in the 9-0 vs Man United last season and still decided it was a foul.

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I don’t get the outcry over the JWP red card. Doesn’t matter if it’s accidental, it’s a stupid challenge. Yeah sometimes it’s a red sometimes not but if it’s against us we’d want it given. 
 

The Milner one was bad but is the review just for potential straight reds ie not for giving a yellow? Should have gone but in a fast paced game with so many stages of play like that there will be the odd mistake. Overall it’s got most things right. 

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10 hours ago, rallyboy said:

 

I feel sorry for the gambling sites that take bets on penalties and cards.

 

Don't feel too sorry for them, isn't the highest individual tax payer in Britain the owner of one of those sites? So I am not sure Mike Dean is having too much effect on their profits!

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On 06/10/2021 at 07:58, Weston Super Saint said:

Why not put the onus on the teams to decide when VAR should be used?

IF each team had 2 reviews at the beginning of the game (like they do in cricket), and lost one review each time the ref's decision isn't overturned, they would soon learn to only look at incidents that were 'clearly and obviously' wrong.

This would have the added benefit of increasing the quality of refereeing decisions as the refs wouldn't want to be proved wrong....

Just don’t see how it would work, as it’s still a ‘human’ making the final call and that human right now is a substandard ref.

Take the Matty Cash handball last year - on field ref doesn’t give it. Ralph uses one of our ‘reviews’ to challenge it, it’s a blatant clear and obvious error but the VAR ref (shock horror, it’s Mike Dean) still doesn’t give it.

Review lost, still the wrong decision, problem remains.

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3 hours ago, ErwinK1961 said:

Just don’t see how it would work, as it’s still a ‘human’ making the final call and that human right now is a substandard ref.

Take the Matty Cash handball last year - on field ref doesn’t give it. Ralph uses one of our ‘reviews’ to challenge it, it’s a blatant clear and obvious error but the VAR ref (shock horror, it’s Mike Dean) still doesn’t give it.

Review lost, still the wrong decision, problem remains.

The reason that wasn’t given as a penalty was because the ball glanced off his thigh before hitting his hand so it doesn’t count apparently. To call it a glance is an exaggeration. It would still have hit his hand if it hadn’t touched his thigh.

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Does anyone understand how the referees/VAR/PGMOL are accountable, or to whom? JWP's decision aside (which was 50/50 imo), how are the referees/VAR assessed (by PGMOL?). And how is PGMOL - as the body responsible for overall refereeing/VAR standards -  measured? Why have PGMOL got a seeming right to provide officials for the PL? Who decides PGMOL are the correct body to provide officials, and for what period, and on what basis? It seems weird that there isn't open dialogue about refereeing/VAR performance, given the gain that these individuals potentially have in influencing outcomes. If I was a betting syndicate, the first person I'd turn to would be the VAR official, given their seemingly non-existent profile vs their ability to influence game-defining moments. 

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10 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

It will be interesting to see how the officials at the Andorra v England match are received - it is an all female onfield team, with a woman VAR official as well.

I shall judge them on their performance.

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12 hours ago, badgerx16 said:

It will be interesting to see how the officials at the Andorra v England match are received - it is an all female onfield team, with a woman VAR official as well.

Fucking hell, my mum could referee that one. Token appointments in a meaningless game. Absolutely zero pressure and they’ll not be one decision that could change the course of the game. 

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On 06/10/2021 at 20:10, Pedantic Pete said:

Don't feel too sorry for them, isn't the highest individual tax payer in Britain the owner of one of those sites? So I am not sure Mike Dean is having too much effect on their profits!

Very much doubt that online gambling sites and their owners pay much tax, they're all based offshore.

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On 10/10/2021 at 11:55, st alex said:

Very much doubt that online gambling sites and their owners pay much tax, they're all based offshore.

And yet, your conclusion is wrong...

https://www.business-live.co.uk/enterprise/bet365-boss-tops-list-uks-19725752

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Bet365 founder Denise Coates has topped the table of the UK's biggest taxpayers - for a second year running.

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Taking third place on the Top 50 list are Fred and Peter Done - the brothers behind bookmakers Betfred - with a tax bill of £191.3m

 

Edited by Weston Super Saint
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IMO Var should be run by a group of ex-pros, have like 3 available from a group of certain amount. Just take it out of the hands of the refs, so they are not bailing their colleagues out of bad decisions.

Mike Dean should be sacked, or at least forced to retire, to be honest most of the PL refs should be, they are not good enough and keep making mistakes after mistakes, even with VAR and even when they are on VAR which is just absurd.  Seen in the Euros and in the Champs league that the standard of refereeing is currently much higher outside this country, so someone at the FA/PL etc. should be probably finding out why. Do our refs coming up through the game get more abuse and talented refs are forced out? Do they get better training/experience? Are the directly seeking out talent? rather than just people who turn up to do it? 

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On 14/10/2021 at 07:33, Weston Super Saint said:

Wrong in your opinion maybe. 

I'll continue to believe that gambling firms base their companies in tax havens, because um... they do.

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-8605137/Betting-giants-Flutter-Bet-365-William-Hill-tax-haven-row.html

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