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Ralph out Howe In?


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5 hours ago, Dman said:

Yes. (why the hell would they be too busy to help out now and again? They do hardly anything). 

Yes. Many footballers discuss things with close family / friends. They’re much more likely to tell friends than the press. 

I can’t comment on the end of October stuff or Ralph / the players knowing that he was on the brink (although I wouldn’t be surprised), however I can 100% with complete certainty say that we have spoken to Howe about taking over. Howe is very keen on us and we’re very keen on Howe (that’s pretty obvious, though). 

The bit about Ralph changing things up in training would also make sense as I know a number of players, one being a key player who’s just left (that’s a different convo though - as someone said towards the end of last season, we had some real poison in the squad… who’ve now moved on), weren’t too impressed with him. 

All that being said, we won’t sack Ralph (my opinion) if results / performances continue as they have been and probably rightly so. 

The only way you could possibly say with 100% complete certainty that talks have taken place between Saints and Howe re his replacing Ralph as manager is if you were personally involved in those talks. Anything else is hearsay; even if that was both Howe and Semmens telling you personally that is what they they were discussing as they walked out of a room together.

4 hours ago, Dman said:

Yes, he done a fantastic job with Bournemouth and achieved a significant amount more than Ralph has with us. 

He took a tiny, tiny club from bottom of league 2 on -15 to a premier league club. I don’t know if you’re too young to remember.   For every season they stayed in the premier league, that was a success. 

You’re judging a manager on 1 bad season out of about 10 (but aren’t for Ralph despite having an appalling record for 30+ games).

His downfall was recruitment and bringing egos into the dressing room. He won’t have that issue here as we don’t have money to spend. 

Unemployment was/is his decision. He’s waiting on the right opportunity. Hence rejecting Celtic at the last minute in the summer (around the same time we spoke to him by the way).

For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t have Howe. I don’t think he’d sort our problems. 

If you compare everything Howe has done as manager of Bournemouth with only that which Ralph has accomplished at Saints then yes, he has achieved more - by 3 promotions.

However, if you compare their successes in the Premier League then Ralph (despite having 2 seasons less in management in said league and spending far, far, less on bringing players in than Howe spent) has achieved: the higher league finish; the greater points tally in one season; the most wins in one season; a (marginally) better points per game tally than Howe. I would say all of those would make him the better manager for this league.

I also sincerely doubt that Howe would be capable of getting Leipzig to finish 2nd in the Bundesliga. 

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18 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

I think you’ll find both clubs spent approximately the same on incoming transfers from the 2014/15 seasons. Worth researching before making assumptions.

Yeah, but we sold like crazy and they didn't. People do net spend normally as its a fairer metric. If we hadn't sold and had vvd, Mane, Shaw etc. In the last few years and had our league finishes then yeah, we'd be underperformers too

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12 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

I think you’ll find both clubs spent approximately the same on incoming transfers from the 2014/15 seasons. Worth researching before making assumptions.

I think the only true comparison should be how much was Bournemouth's net spend in the premier league under Howe compared to Saints net spend under Ralph.

Haven't looked/checked personally, but I'm pretty sure Howe's is going to be the higher - by quite some margin.

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1 hour ago, TWar said:

This is why I struggle with this narrative of Bournemouth as this plucky little side that Howe managed to keep up with immense talent. That side cost an absolute fortune, people only praise him because of his (also financially aided) success in the lower leagues. As a top flight manager he was mediocre at best. 

He wasn’t financially aided when they were bottom of the whole league with minus points and Eddie Mitchell wasn’t exactly rolling in it, when he was in charge.

 

It makes me laugh, you bend over backwards to claim what a good signing Armstrong is, based on his lower league stats, yet you dismiss Eddie Howes  record in the same league.

If he was a foreign  hipster coach with an exotic name who nobody had heard of, you’d be wetting your pants over that  record. 

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Howe did well - but you have to put it in context for what we would need from a manager right now.

His rise through the leagues was/is amazing, but not exactly relevant for what we would need at this point in time. It's quite simialr to the Adkins discussion in certain respects.

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21 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

He wasn’t financially aided when they were bottom of the whole league with minus points and Eddie Mitchell wasn’t exactly rolling in it, when he was in charge.

 

It makes me laugh, you bend over backwards to claim what a good signing Armstrong is, based on his lower league stats, yet you dismiss Eddie Howes  record in the same league.

If he was a foreign  hipster coach with an exotic name who nobody had heard of, you’d be wetting your pants over that  record. 

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated. 

Armstrong also has the chance to prove himself now, let's see how he does. The difference is both came to the prem with a bunch of promise, one has yet to prove himself and the other proved that even with a big budget the best he could do was survive until eventually he couldn't even manage that. 

Also, this hipster thing is pure projection of a narrative, I have repeatedly praised Potter and Moyes this season. Just not Howe because he was not prem standard. 

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53 minutes ago, TWar said:

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated. 

Also, this hipster thing is pure projection of a narrative, I have repeatedly praised Potter and Moyes this season. Just not Howe because he was not prem standard. 

You’d have been the first moaning if we’d appointed Moyes, after all he was relegated with Sunderland. 

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1 minute ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’d have been the first moaning if we’d appointed Moyes, after all he was relegated with Sunderland. 

Its almost as if people can change their reputations and standings in the game with sustained success... 

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1 hour ago, TWar said:

Its almost as if people can change their reputations and standings in the game with sustained success... 

To be fair Moyes was a busted flush after 3 failed postings and he has come good only at the second attempt at West Ham . He only got reappointed as there was no one else . He has done well with new signings . His mistake was going to ManU as the chosen one , they need to boot Fergie out so they can progress.

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3 hours ago, East Kent Saint said:

We did enjoy them and Sweet at the time , We saw Nazareth in Coventry , came out with ears ringing 😃 

Would have loved to have seen slade and sweet - just a bit too young at the time - Nazareth would be a no tho 👍

Edited by Toadhall Saint
Typo
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1 hour ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

I don’t particularly pay much attention to the managerial musing of a bloke impressed with the job Rafa’s doing at Everton. Id probably say you spout as much sense on this front as you do over goal poachers. 

Have you been paying attention at all to Everton? They clearly don't have a pot to piss in. On top of which they lost both forwards to injury for ages. 

Who cares about context though. Team loses therefore manager is bad is about all you can manage. Atleast it's not about our manager for a while. Sure you'll start whining about that soon too though. 

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33 minutes ago, East Kent Saint said:

To be fair Moyes was a busted flush after 3 failed postings and he has come good only at the second attempt at West Ham . He only got reappointed as there was no one else . He has done well with new signings . His mistake was going to ManU as the chosen one , they need to boot Fergie out so they can progress.

The idea of a manager improving boggles Duckhunters mind "you wouldn't want him after he was doing badly but you do after he's improved" yeah no shit mate. Baffling. 

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2 hours ago, TWar said:

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated. 

Armstrong also has the chance to prove himself now, let's see how he does. The difference is both came to the prem with a bunch of promise, one has yet to prove himself and the other proved that even with a big budget the best he could do was survive until eventually he couldn't even manage that. 

Also, this hipster thing is pure projection of a narrative, I have repeatedly praised Potter and Moyes this season. Just not Howe because he was not prem standard. 

In your opinion Howe is not premier standard.. I think you’ll find you are in the minority of football savvy people.. and in the majority of people, like you, who know little about the sport.

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2 minutes ago, SaintSteve said:

In your opinion Howe is not premier standard.. I think you’ll find you are in the minority of football savvy people.. and in the majority of people, like you, who know little about the sport.

"smart people agree with me and dumb people like you disagree, no I won't name the smart people" 

Pretty poor argument compared to actually discussing the manager and his achievements compared to his resources. 

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2 minutes ago, TWar said:

"smart people agree with me and dumb people like you disagree, no I won't name the smart people" 

Pretty poor argument compared to actually discussing the manager and his achievements compared to his resources. 

Haha.. from someone who rates a manager’s  ability on net spend  😂😂

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2 hours ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’d have been the first moaning if we’d appointed Moyes, after all he was relegated with Sunderland. 

I did that with Strachan…look how that went a disaster at Coventry brilliant here.

That 3-0 home win against Skates when ground lifted when Marian scored.

I was pleased when we got that twitchy bastard who I will never forgive!

Some managers just fit like Moyes at West Ham after a bad start turned that round

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1 minute ago, SaintSteve said:

Haha.. from someone who rates a manager’s  ability on net spend  😂😂

Surely you realise a managers ability to succeed is related to the quality of their squad, and if your squad is built on pennies it's less likely to succeed? 

Like if one manager has a massively pricey squad and finishes 12th and the others is cheap and they finish 13th, would you just flat out say the first manager has done a better job? 

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1 hour ago, Toadhall Saint said:

Would have loved to have seen spade and sweet - just a bit too young at the time - Nazareth would be a no tho 👍

Slade ! It was the music we grew up with , TRex another one . Nazareth did a few good tracks such as This Flight Tonight but it was a good night out although before ear plugs and decibel meters 😵. Elton John was starting off as well around the same time plus Yes and Pink Floyd.

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9 hours ago, Dman said:

Because I know someone involved with the club at a pretty senior level. Well to be truthful, they’re no longer at the club but still have friends / former colleagues who are. 

I also know a few, now former, players. 

I’m not crooker or semmens, so I can’t tell you the reasons why we like Howe, but at a guess I’d say; 

Cheap

Keen on the job 

Done a good job with bournemouth 

Considered a good coach within the game

He fits our profile to a tee. 

And yet unemployed for about 2 years.

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3 hours ago, TWar said:

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated.

I’m not a huge Howe fan, but this line makes it seem like he did nothing in the PL. He kept them up for a few years, didn’t he, and they weren’t perennial strugglers for all of that by any stretch. 

I thought Howe’s major downfall was that, after consistently building a core squad with him who rose through the leagues then he built them more and kept them in the PL: he spent big money badly in his latter years. Imo before that he proved himself in the PL for at three seasons, and after five in the top league then got relegated. Hardly a failure imo.

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4 hours ago, TWar said:

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated. 

Armstrong also has the chance to prove himself now, let's see how he does. The difference is both came to the prem with a bunch of promise, one has yet to prove himself and the other proved that even with a big budget the best he could do was survive until eventually he couldn't even manage that. 

Also, this hipster thing is pure projection of a narrative, I have repeatedly praised Potter and Moyes this season. Just not Howe because he was not prem standard. 

By Prem standards you can’t really say Bournemouth had a massive budget, they spent a lot for Bournemouth but they seemed pretty much in line with most other teams at the bottom end. And even with money they are still only Bournemouth, there is a limit to the player they can attract.

The season they went down they got fucked by injuries, and by players like Wilson, Ake and Fraser having their heads turned. IMO keeping Bournemouth up that long was a pretty good achievement.

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4 hours ago, TWar said:

I freely admit he is a good manager for lower league football, but he had the chance to prove himself in the prem with a massive budget and got relegated. 

Armstrong also has the chance to prove himself now, let's see how he does. The difference is both came to the prem with a bunch of promise, one has yet to prove himself and the other proved that even with a big budget the best he could do was survive until eventually he couldn't even manage that. 

Also, this hipster thing is pure projection of a narrative, I have repeatedly praised Potter and Moyes this season. Just not Howe because he was not prem standard. 

It does seem you have a bit of a weird infatuation with Howe. He did more than ok. Christ, he got Bournemouth into the prem and kept them there for a few years. No mean feat. He hardly had the pick of the world's best players did he? Wouldn't be surprised if he does ok at Sandcastle

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1 hour ago, East Kent Saint said:

Slade ! It was the music we grew up with , TRex another one . Nazareth did a few good tracks such as This Flight Tonight but it was a good night out although before ear plugs and decibel meters 😵. Elton John was starting off as well around the same time plus Yes and Pink Floyd.

Yep corrected the typo! Still listen a lot to TRex. Slade started out as Ambrose Slade and had a skinhead following. 

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6 hours ago, Minsk said:

I think the only true comparison should be how much was Bournemouth's net spend in the premier league under Howe compared to Saints net spend under Ralph.

Haven't looked/checked personally, but I'm pretty sure Howe's is going to be the higher - by quite some margin.

Not really the same though is it, Bournemouth had to build a Prem team after getting promoted Ralph inherited an established Prem team.

Having said that, I’m a big fan of Howe but it’s still an odd appointment for Newcastle in their current situation. In my opinion they should have gone for a big name to attract the better players, the fans will soon turn on a Howe if they don’t start well.

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10 minutes ago, aintforever said:

Not really the same though is it, Bournemouth had to build a Prem team after getting promoted Ralph inherited an established Prem team.

Having said that, I’m a big fan of Howe but it’s still an odd appointment for Newcastle in their current situation. In my opinion they should have gone for a big name to attract the better players, the fans will soon turn on a Howe if they don’t start well.

Maybe the board have looked at it and thought he'd be a good manager to get them back in the top flight if they get relegated.

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Just now, The Cat said:

Maybe the board have looked at it and thought he'd be a good manager to get them back in the top flight if they get relegated.

Or just to keep them there.

I suspect his remit is to keep them up, and then Newcastle will look to bring in the big name at the end of the season.

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9 hours ago, St Louis said:

What makes you think that our captain (and managers pet) wouldnt tell 'Dave the Builder' many of the private goings on behind the scenes at the club?
Especially the really confidential and sensitive stuff like 'the current manager will be sacked by the end of October (regardless of how good his results are) and Eddie Howe will be taking over'?
Maybe JWP advised him to put a wager on it as payment for some renovations 🤔

Because a good friend of mine who's a Palace fan until recently rented a house from JWP and JWP told him that when Pep leaves Man City at the end of this season he is definitely going to manage Southhampton !

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27 minutes ago, Badger said:

Or just to keep them there.

I suspect his remit is to keep them up, and then Newcastle will look to bring in the big name at the end of the season.

You'd think so, but if they are realistic they have to think of what might happen if they go down.

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29 minutes ago, Suhari said:

I thought Howe (or his Mrs) didn't like it ooop noorf?

So presumably he'll be working remotely? It's all the rage.

It has near confirmed that, that line was one of those "mutual agreement" statements, that aren't really mutually agreed, only officially. 🤷‍♂️

Fair play to him, though. A fair amount of time out, returns to assumedly the best resourced club that he could realistically join, rather than a run of the mill Premier League side.

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8 minutes ago, saintquin said:

I was replying to the point of him being “highly regarded in the game “.

Wouldn’t have thought someone highly regarded would be out of work for 2 years!

August 2020 to November 2021 is not two years.

Guardiola took a similar time out  does that mean he isn't highly regarded?

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