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Norwich 2-1 Saints - Match Thread


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2 minutes ago, M271 said:

Has anyone seen the reason why Adams and Romeo were substituted? If they weren't injured or fatigued then it was a bad decision IMO.

Che Adams had two tough games for Scotland and surely tired quicker as the game developed.   I'm afraid none of the subs. worked out very well.

Romeu is beginning to show his age, and the game had started to get away from us after HT.   Lyanco DAJFU, but it was a goalscorer we needed.

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1 hour ago, musesaint said:

We will win more games when McCarthy is finally dropped and Forster is back in goal 

It's not gonna happen, not with Ralph in charge. 

Seems the excuse is FF not signing a new contract although that issue didnt arise last year when it was Ings.  

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33 minutes ago, beatlesaint said:

It's not gonna happen, not with Ralph in charge. 

Seems the excuse is FF not signing a new contract although that issue didnt arise last year when it was Ings.  

It isn't a good comparison between FF and Ings. There was a contract offer on the table for Ings and there appeared to be (mistaken) confidence in the club that he would sign. It wasn't until July that it was confirmed that he had rejected the offer, so no possibility to drop Ings. 

 

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I know it's just one game but I'm still annoyed about the manner of our pathetic second half  display, time and time again we seem to come out with a completely casual attitude to the second 45, is it not RH's job to fire us up at half time? to get us solid defensively when in a lead, whatever he says to us at half time more than often makes us worse & time and time again he reverts back to crazy subs mode.  I agree the keeper has to take a portion of the blame too, basically neither keepers is anywhere near good enough.  Walcott would be finished under any other manager yet he will be picked again, elounousi Is just another no end product player to add to our list that flatters to deceive. 

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17 hours ago, CWD said:

Almost feel sorry for Theo. Looks like his brain knows what he wants to do but just doesn't have the ability to do it anymore. He's shockingly bad now, looks way out of his depth.

No need to feel sorry for him. He's stealing a fecking fortune from our club and we don't have a pot to piss in. Any symapthy should be towards us from him.

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2 hours ago, The Cat said:

I didn't say he was dismal, that was referring to the header. He was very poor though. It's so frustrating to see someone who used to be so good and who everyone wants to do well fading away in front of our eyes.

his game has always been based on blistering pace and lot of great off the ball runs. Last season he still looked quick and his work rate was good, getting up and down the line and doing a great job for the side. He was certainly no world beater, but he did OK. 

Without that terrific pace, and I've yet to see it since he has come back into the side, I am not sure he brings anything to the party. So the question I have is, is he still getting his full sharpness back or has he lost a yard never to return. 

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1 hour ago, M271 said:

Has anyone seen the reason why Adams and Romeo were substituted? If they weren't injured or fatigued then it was a bad decision IMO.

I can only guess Walcott for Adams was because something had to change (the ball was not sticking up front) and Ralf thought some `pace' up front to run the channels might help give us an outlet. 

Lyanco for Romeo was to enable us to go five at the back, but I have no idea why Diallo wasn't the one to come off. Maybe Ralf thinks he tires quicker than Diallo. Anyone got any better ideas?

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5 minutes ago, Chez said:

his game has always been based on blistering pace and lot of great off the ball runs. Last season he still looked quick and his work rate was good, getting up and down the line and doing a great job for the side. He was certainly no world beater, but he did OK. 

Without that terrific pace, and I've yet to see it since he has come back into the side, I am not sure he brings anything to the party. So the question I have is, is he still getting his full sharpness back or has he lost a yard never to return. 

You are right. Sadly I just don't see him getting an extended run in the team to allow us to find out whether he still has it or not. Throwing him on for 20 minutes or so probably won't achieve anything.

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3 minutes ago, Chez said:

I can only guess Walcott for Adams was because something had to change (the ball was not sticking up front) and Ralf thought some `pace' up front to run the channels might help give us an outlet. 

Lyanco for Romeo was to enable us to go five at the back, but I have no idea why Diallo wasn't the one to come off. Maybe Ralf thinks he tires quicker than Diallo. Anyone got any better ideas?

Ralph just happened to have pulled those names out of Dave Watson's beanie hat at half time

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1 hour ago, Mr X said:

I know it's just one game but I'm still annoyed about the manner of our pathetic second half  display, time and time again we seem to come out with a completely casual attitude to the second 45, is it not RH's job to fire us up at half time? to get us solid defensively when in a lead, whatever he says to us at half time more than often makes us worse & time and time again he reverts back to crazy subs mode.  I agree the keeper has to take a portion of the blame too, basically neither keepers is anywhere near good enough.  Walcott would be finished under any other manager yet he will be picked again, elounousi Is just another no end product player to add to our list that flatters to deceive. 

Second half failures have become a habit. I sat there listening to Radio Solent's praise of the first half superiority and the excellent display and I just knew there would be a second half collapse. If games ended at half time we'd be somewhere near the top. I don't understand how games can change so dramatically but it has become a habit.

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1 hour ago, beatlesaint said:

It's not gonna happen, not with Ralph in charge. 

Seems the excuse is FF not signing a new contract although that issue didnt arise last year when it was Ings.  

Slight difference being that Ings had one more year on his contract, so every game and goal helped add £s to his price. Forster walks this summer, so putting him in the shop window does nothing for us.

It would be mad if Ralph is not picking his best keeper so as to ensure one signs for us in the summer. Pick the best guy each week and worry about keepers in the summer. If one or both want out, let them go. 

We have a great opportunity in the summer to upgrade. A shed load of wages will be available to get a new guy or two in. 

 

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1 hour ago, david in sweden said:

Romeu is beginning to show his age, and the game had started to get away from us after HT.   Lyanco DAJFU, but it was a goalscorer we needed.

he's 30 not 35. If the game was getting away from us, which is was, then Diallo and JWP were equally to blame and options to come off.

Lyanco was shite. He didn't do a job at all. He was massively at fault for their goal, and in the Norwich chance before the goal, which McCarthy saves at the near post, watch how he dives in (its a fraction after Gilmour does his juggling on half way line) and gets done. Maybe all CBs get sucked in there, but its a regular thing that he needs to taper. 

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16 hours ago, woodsaint1 said:

Quite frankly thats a miserable result, but ultimately summed up our season to date in 90 mins.

Dont take our chances and kill the game when we should

Make silly mistakes to gift teams goals 

Bizarre substitutions which make no sense - except to Ralph

 

And we’ll be doing the same thing next season and the following season if Groundhog Ralph is in charge. 

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3 hours ago, Chez said:

he's 30 not 35. If the game was getting away from us, which is was, then Diallo and JWP were equally to blame and options to come off.

Lyanco was shite. He didn't do a job at all. He was massively at fault for their goal, and in the Norwich chance before the goal, which McCarthy saves at the near post, watch how he dives in (its a fraction after Gilmour does his juggling on half way line) and gets done. Maybe all CBs get sucked in there, but its a regular thing that he needs to taper. 

Romeu doesn't have the pace to combat fast-running youngsters, his passing is frequently off-target and he always looks as though

he's just waiting for his next yellow card.   We need a "hard-man" in that spot,  but sadly Jimmy Case's playing days are long gone.

I totally agree that Diallo had a poor game, and although his fancy footwork looks good, his final pass often went astray or fell short of the target man.

 

JWP started at right back and allowed Tino make forward runs in first half,  but after moving to MF after HT he reverted to " his normal game "

......would you have replaced the team captain whilst the score was still at 1-1 ?  

Tactically, it all went wrong in the later stages when we continued to play " keep ball " even when chasing the game at 1-2.

We saw Broja come on (for Elyounoussi,) but he did no better than Mo ....and after a while I even forgot he was on the field

YES......McCarthy made a good save (you quoted) but Krul's fingertip save was the real heartbreaker.

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23 minutes ago, david in sweden said:

Romeu doesn't have the pace to combat fast-running youngsters, his passing is frequently off-target and he always looks as though

he's just waiting for his next yellow card.   We need a "hard-man" in that spot,  but sadly Jimmy Case's playing days are long gone.

Actually Romeu does (or at least did have the pace). Can't remember which game it was last season but his chase back to make a last ditch saving tackle was one of the best defensive moments of the season for any team, and his pace to do that was electrifying. Possibly he hasn't got that top speed back yet after his injury last season, but Romeu does have pace in him. His passing is also not frequently off-target. And if you don't think he's a hard man then it must be because you are comparing him with Jimmy case, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in today's game, though even he was a complete pussy compared with Brian O'Neil or Jim McGrath. The days of him picking up yellow cards nearly every game are also long behind him. 

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17 minutes ago, VectisSaint said:

Actually Romeu does (or at least did have the pace). Can't remember which game it was last season but his chase back to make a last ditch saving tackle was one of the best defensive moments of the season for any team, and his pace to do that was electrifying. Possibly he hasn't got that top speed back yet after his injury last season, but Romeu does have pace in him. His passing is also not frequently off-target. And if you don't think he's a hard man then it must be because you are comparing him with Jimmy case, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in today's game, though even he was a complete pussy compared with Brian O'Neil or Jim McGrath. The days of him picking up yellow cards nearly every game are also long behind him. 

You be are quoting the wrong hard men there. Brian was mad not bad, Big Jake just looked hard (gentle giant off the pitch). The true assassins were Denis Hollywood and Docker Walker. Both sent a shiver down the spine. 

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Saints are the top of the tree when we come to losing points from leads. Under Ralph this has happened more often than with any other Prem Club. Yet again yesterday we exhibited the reality that we ain’t too bad for 45 minutes as many posters have already mentioned. The other Clubs know this and just wait their chance for the second half. We appear tactically inept after the break. Can’t Ralph see this or doesn’t he want to? Answers on a postage stamp! 

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7 hours ago, Teddeer said:

No need to feel sorry for him. He's stealing a fecking fortune from our club and we don't have a pot to piss in. Any symapthy should be towards us from him.

Let’s hope the club send Walcott out on loan in January. He would be an asset for an ambitious Championship side……

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2 hours ago, hasper57saint said:

Saints are the top of the tree when we come to losing points from leads. Under Ralph this has happened more often than with any other Prem Club. Yet again yesterday we exhibited the reality that we ain’t too bad for 45 minutes as many posters have already mentioned. The other Clubs know this and just wait their chance for the second half. We appear tactically inept after the break. Can’t Ralph see this or doesn’t he want to? Answers on a postage stamp! 

I have a theory about this. Ralph likes a high pressing style which is likely to get us a first half lead but this is difficult to maintain for 90 minutes both physically and psychologically. Once we have won a lead the players are more likely to defend it than go chasing more goals. 
 

Just a theory.

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3 hours ago, david in sweden said:

Romeu doesn't have the pace to combat fast-running youngsters, his passing is frequently off-target and he always looks as though

he's just waiting for his next yellow card.   We need a "hard-man" in that spot,  but sadly Jimmy Case's playing days are long gone.

I totally agree that Diallo had a poor game, and although his fancy footwork looks good, his final pass often went astray or fell short of the target man.

 

JWP started at right back and allowed Tino make forward runs in first half,  but after moving to MF after HT he reverted to " his normal game "

......would you have replaced the team captain whilst the score was still at 1-1 ?  

Tactically, it all went wrong in the later stages when we continued to play " keep ball " even when chasing the game at 1-2.

We saw Broja come on (for Elyounoussi,) but he did no better than Mo ....and after a while I even forgot he was on the field

YES......McCarthy made a good save (you quoted) but Krul's fingertip save was the real heartbreaker.

This is a good summary; a couple of comments:

We were totally dominant when Mo was on and played the match in the final third. I agree that Broja didn't do much, but we really didn't have any sustained pressure and were chasing the game so not a totally fair comparison, plus they are different styles of player so contribute different capabilities. 

Agree with your comments on JWP, but I did think that he was a little more ambitious with his long passing yesterday, and did a few  (not every one !) excellent cross field passes, I hope that he continues to try those, as we've missed that style of pass with the loss of Vestergaard

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45 minutes ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I have a theory about this. Ralph likes a high pressing style which is likely to get us a first half lead but this is difficult to maintain for 90 minutes both physically and psychologically. Once we have won a lead the players are more likely to defend it than go chasing more goals. 
 

Just a theory.

Fair theory but if that is the case then why isn’t Ralph doing something about it?!?!

Can we not save some steam for the 2nd half then? 

It just seems like stupid game management, surely there is a way of adapting?!

It’s one thing if the likes of City/Chelsea/Liverpool turn us over in the second half, but when Norwich are doing it, it’s somewhat disheartening.

I don’t want to nitpick now and play the “what if” game because it can be played either way i.e. City away / JWP red card but what if Dan James had scored for Leeds or McCarthy didn’t make that Watford save at the end.

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1 hour ago, Whitey Grandad said:

I have a theory about this. Ralph likes a high pressing style which is likely to get us a first half lead but this is difficult to maintain for 90 minutes both physically and psychologically. Once we have won a lead the players are more likely to defend it than go chasing more goals. 
 

Just a theory.

That was exactly what Pellegrino used to do.

If we scored early he'd then try and defend the whole game.

It was horrific.

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5 hours ago, VectisSaint said:

Actually Romeu does (or at least did have the pace). Can't remember which game it was last season but his chase back to make a last ditch saving tackle was one of the best defensive moments of the season for any team, and his pace to do that was electrifying. Possibly he hasn't got that top speed back yet after his injury last season, but Romeu does have pace in him. His passing is also not frequently off-target. And if you don't think he's a hard man then it must be because you are comparing him with Jimmy case, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in today's game, though even he was a complete pussy compared with Brian O'Neil or Jim McGrath. The days of him picking up yellow cards nearly every game are also long behind him. 

Just wanted to add my tick to your comments about Romeu.   Absolute myth (David In Sweden) to go criticising his passing which is technically fine and often progressive ; his pace is adequate - he's no slower than JWP (who had a good game at Norwich) and he's as good a controlled-hard-man as there is in the Prem. - while he get's a few yellow cards, many of which are "for-the-team, he has never attracted a second yellow in any senior form of Football.    The Club has a more urgent need for a creative attacking midfielder ....in the Tadic mould.     Romeu's been the bargain of all bargains at 5 million pounds.

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4 hours ago, nta786 said:

Fair theory but if that is the case then why isn’t Ralph doing something about it?!?!

Can we not save some steam for the 2nd half then? 

It just seems like stupid game management, surely there is a way of adapting?!

It’s one thing if the likes of City/Chelsea/Liverpool turn us over in the second half, but when Norwich are doing it, it’s somewhat disheartening.

I don’t want to nitpick now and play the “what if” game because it can be played either way i.e. City away / JWP red card but what if Dan James had scored for Leeds or McCarthy didn’t make that Watford save at the end.

I think it’s a mental thing. They are not quite as aggressive or adventurous once they have grabbed a lead. Not much in it but ay be just enough to make a difference. It’s like just after you’ve eaten when you’re not quite so ravenous.

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On 20/11/2021 at 20:42, Dman said:

Ralphs little bum boy crew.

 

Wow, the level of posts on this forum have certainly dropped, im remembering why I dont post often on here now. 
What a thing to say (its wrong on a few levels obviously) but just because some people like and back our current manager, and you dont!?

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On 21/11/2021 at 17:40, VectisSaint said:

Actually Romeu does (or at least did have the pace). Can't remember which game it was last season but his chase back to make a last ditch saving tackle was one of the best defensive moments of the season for any team, and his pace to do that was electrifying. Possibly he hasn't got that top speed back yet after his injury last season, but Romeu does have pace in him. His passing is also not frequently off-target. And if you don't think he's a hard man then it must be because you are comparing him with Jimmy case, who wouldn't last 5 minutes in today's game, though even he was a complete pussy compared with Brian O'Neil or Jim McGrath. The days of him picking up yellow cards nearly every game are also long behind him. 

I  guess that  we were both in the generation to appreciate the likes of  O'Neil, Case and Walker, but even they never picked up so many yellows as Romeo has done. 

In many cases they just got straight reds.   I won't disagree with another contributor who said Romeo was a good deal for £5 million - indeed he was, but he has

slowed up somewhat from previous seasons.   He hasn't hit the form he had previously, and has already been subbed off 5 times (of 12 games) this season.

Just a modest 3  yellows so far,  and with luck he may earn  a  "get-out-of-jail"  card,  IF  he avoids the other  2  in the upcoming  8 games before the New Year.

 I'm not advocating that we drop him in favour of anyone else, but was merely noting that he doesn't seem to be contributing in quite the same way.

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Romeu is still probably the best player we have for that particular role, but he wont be able to keep it up forever. That second half was hard to watch, we just couldn't get any rhythm. If Theo was dropping down to find the level he can still play effectively at he needs to drop a bit further. He had some nice ball control, but you could see he was not going to go anywhere with it. Vestergard was a poor defender, but his long passes gave us the get out of the back card we do not have this season. I am glad Vestergard moved on but we need to find a substitute for that option which will work for us.

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On 21/11/2021 at 16:11, david in sweden said:

Romeu doesn't have the pace to combat fast-running youngsters, his passing is frequently off-target and he always looks as though

he's just waiting for his next yellow card.   We need a "hard-man" in that spot,  but sadly Jimmy Case's playing days are long gone.

I totally agree that Diallo had a poor game, and although his fancy footwork looks good, his final pass often went astray or fell short of the target man.

JWP started at right back and allowed Tino make forward runs in first half,  but after moving to MF after HT he reverted to " his normal game "

......would you have replaced the team captain whilst the score was still at 1-1 ?  

Tactically, it all went wrong in the later stages when we continued to play " keep ball " even when chasing the game at 1-2.

Are there any `hard' men in top level football these days? Powerful athletes with the more skill the better. Romeu lacks Morgans pace across the ground, but his all round game is decent. No idea where you get the idea that his passing is frequently off target. He tends to be very careful with the ball. We miss him when he doesn't play.

Diallo has ability too, but his passing on Saturday was horrible. He should have been subbed IMO, but as you asked, I have no qualms whatsoever with the captain being taken off at any point in any game. The captain's role in football is largely ceremonial. Captains shouldn't get special treatment.

I disagree about tactics going wrong in the later stages. The keep ball tactic created a golden chance to score for Walcott. Hoof it long and maybe something happens, maybe not. What went wrong is we were absolutely shit in most of the second half and no matter what the manager did to try and change it, we continued to be shit. Players did not do their jobs.

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On 21/11/2021 at 16:59, Fitzhugh Fella said:

You be are quoting the wrong hard men there. Brian was mad not bad, Big Jake just looked hard (gentle giant off the pitch). The true assassins were Denis Hollywood and Docker Walker. Both sent a shiver down the spine. 

I had many a conversation with Docker and wish I could have recorded his stories. His tales of going to Liverpool, Bob Shankley there waiting to greet them was amusing.

 

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