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Liverpool 4-0 Saints - Match Thread


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48 minutes ago, captainchris said:

Oh dear….

Thanks for the tactics ‘lesson’ Ralph but I’m not buying your midfield/false 9/ 3 up front master class.

We were crap today and had no midfield, hence there were umpteen long balls in the general direction of the ‘front 3’

We also lose control of games as they wear on because we are having to cover so much ground to make up for lack of numbers in central areas. 

Your ‘very strong’ pairing of Romeu and JWP is not enough, not withstanding that neither are creative and both are defensive. ‘Very Strong’ is also a bit far fetched.

Too often we are tactically left wanting…. 


 

 

 


 

 

Yep. I'm not sure how anyone can't see that today was a shocker tactically. 2 in midfield against their 3 was never going to end well. 

 

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5 minutes ago, trousers said:

Devils Advocate Klaxon... 

Maybe he didn't really think that on the inside, but said those words out loud to take the flack in order to protect his players?

(No, I don't think so either but just playing the amateur philosopher... :) )

the players made mistakes, the first goal is a complete shit show from front to back, but I think Ralph is genuinely taking the flack because he knows he deserves some of it.

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50 minutes ago, JustinSFC said:

Even at 4-0 that was a flattering scoreline.

Should have been six.

The only reason it wasn't was the chances on a plate they missed.

That game was a free hit so...

You are of course correct, however we missed some also and got into very dangerous positions. Yes we lost handsomely but we should have been on the scoresheet. 

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50 minutes ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I thought the ralph cult would be out in force tonight, smoothing it all over. You're the guy a couple of weeks back who was saying Villa were dreadful, nailed on for relegation. I see in another thread you say we need 100s of millions to complete with Liverpool. That might be true if you mean finishing above them in the league (although a few years back we did achieve that), but its not true for a one off game. Tell you what would have given us a better chance? A manager who set the team up solid to defend but oh, Ralph seems to think we can compete toe for toe at Anfield. Woeful idea. 

He admitted he got it wrong 

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It was Liverpool, given a heads start all fired up FFS. They were far better than us on the day. Having said that two big mistakes stand out. Liveramento gave up on the edge of the goal area and let his mark go for an easy tap in. Secondly Adams aimlessly headed the ball out to Thiago who ran in and shot helped by hitting Lyanco. Heading it out to the right would have given a chance to close it down. Two unecessary goals. The bloody disasterous zonal marking meant nobody marked anybody. Flapper misjudged VVD's low volley trying to stop it with his legs. FFS unless we get a goalkeeper he will take us down. He touched Mane's curler over but batted Ox's shot straight back out luckily to nobody. Until we get a proper keeper Forster needs a chance. Picking McCarthy every week is the biggest mistake Ralf is making.

Edited by derry
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Terrible first half really.

But at the end of the day they're better than us, universes above us really and sometimes there's not a lot you can do, especially if your key men have poor games.

Romeu was dross today, absolute dross. Back 3 pulled all over the place, I thought the front 3 were wasteful and Armstrong in particular sadly looks utterly out of his depth at the moment. Not sure when it's going to settle down for him, his game looks too hectic for this level.

Two home games next though, get ourselves at least 4 points in those and this result will be irrelevant really. To be honest we're playing like a bottom half/mid-table fodder team, that is bang on what we are. We'll get a couple of wins here and there, get absolutely pounded by the slightest quality, and throw in some shockers against teams we should beat. Seems like this is our default place at this level. All a bit boring really.

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28 minutes ago, derry said:

It was Liverpool, given a heads start all fired up FFS. They were far better than us on the day. Having said that two big mistakes stand out. Liveramento gave up on the edge of the goal area and let his mark go for an easy tap in. Secondly Adams aimlessly headed the ball out to Thiago who ranin and shot helped by hitting Lyanco. Heading it out to the right would have given a chance to close it down. Two unecessary goals. The bloody disasterous zonal marking meant nobody marked anybody. Flapper misjudged VVD's low volley trying to stop it with his legs. FFS unless we get a goalkeeper he will take us down. He touched Mane's curler over but batted Ox's shot straight back out luckily to nobody. Until we get a proper keeper Forster needs a chance. Picking McCarthy every week is the biggest mistake Ralf is making.

yeah, FFS, if Forster had played, we'd of won that game.  

 

 

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Tbh I’m still more angry about the Norwich loss. I’m all for taking some risks and trying something new against the bigger teams - and invariably, it will sometimes go badly wrong like today - but you’ve got to pick up the points against teams around you if you’re going to do that.

 

Ultimately, losing to Liverpool won’t relegate us, but losing to Norwich definitely will.

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Terrible first half really.

But at the end of the day they're better than us, universes above us really and sometimes there's not a lot you can do, especially if your key men have poor games.

Romeu was dross today, absolute dross. Back 3 pulled all over the place, I thought the front 3 were wasteful and Armstrong in particular sadly looks utterly out of his depth at the moment. Not sure when it's going to settle down for him, his game looks too hectic for this level.

Two home games next though, get ourselves at least 4 points in those and this result will be irrelevant really. To be honest we're playing like a bottom half/mid-table fodder team, that is bang on what we are. We'll get a couple of wins here and there, get absolutely pounded by the slightest quality, and throw in some shockers against teams we should beat. Seems like this is our default place at this level. All a bit boring really.

We didn’t get “pounded by city or utd” tho did we. We will lose to quality sides that are playing at the top of their game tho.

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52 minutes ago, Nemi said:

Tbh I’m still more angry about the Norwich loss. I’m all for taking some risks and trying something new against the bigger teams - and invariably, it will sometimes go badly wrong like today - but you’ve got to pick up the points against teams around you if you’re going to do that.

 

Ultimately, losing to Liverpool won’t relegate us, but losing to Norwich definitely will.

👍

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1 hour ago, S-Clarke said:

Terrible first half really.

But at the end of the day they're better than us, universes above us really and sometimes there's not a lot you can do, especially if your key men have poor games.

Romeu was dross today, absolute dross. Back 3 pulled all over the place, I thought the front 3 were wasteful and Armstrong in particular sadly looks utterly out of his depth at the moment. Not sure when it's going to settle down for him, his game looks too hectic for this level.

Two home games next though, get ourselves at least 4 points in those and this result will be irrelevant really. To be honest we're playing like a bottom half/mid-table fodder team, that is bang on what we are. We'll get a couple of wins here and there, get absolutely pounded by the slightest quality, and throw in some shockers against teams we should beat. Seems like this is our default place at this level. All a bit boring really.

So a goal and 2 assists from Armstrongs previous 3 games isn’t good enough? And without those we would be sitting on 1 win.

 

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Lineker is such a wanker.

On first MOTD in a game where we get hammered.

Played out of our skin v city and iirc we were still about 5th game on.

AGAINST CITY.

Blokes a tosser.

Edit: can't remember exactly what slot we had, MLG.

Inb4.

Edited by JustinSFC
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Going to read the rest of this thread next - but wanted to comment without any influence from whats gone before. James Ward-Prowse needs to be taken off corners. There aren't many worse them him in the EPL. After watching Allison completely flustered by balls under his crossbar three weeks ago week - West Ham scored twice like that - Ward-Prowse hit the first man on the nearside of the 6 yard box nearly every time. Followed usually by a 50 yard sprint back as we got hit on the break. Tactics or inability? Either way it was dreadful stuff.

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MOTD summed up our cannon fodder status - nothing to say about us.

I think Livramento needs a couple of weeks off, both him and his Dad were shocked he was in from the start for us, the lad is only 19 teams have sussed him out and target him. You could argue how is he going to learn if he isn’t playing - but maybe a little spell out will allow him to reset and go again………..it’s not as if his natural replacement is green.

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5 hours ago, TWar said:

If he makes a mistake, yeah. But tbh when you have a manager who managers at Champions league level, like Ralph. And a team who spends like 2nd least in the league then a lot of the time (I'd argue most of the time), it will be down to the players.

Even Ralph admitted he got it wrong today!

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Diallo being injured at least explains his odd absence. Still think the 523 formation was barking mad choice regardless of that. Hopefully Ralph can get the wheels back on pronto.

Also annoys me tella getting thrown minutes in a game we’re getting thrashed by a top team but Walcott will be saved all the chances against teams where we’ll actually have opportunities to go forward.

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I get it’s a free hit. But 3 up front suddenly against Liverpool is a bit mad - wonder if this is Ralph’s subtle way of showing that our no 10s are all sub par. Not sure playing strikers there is the answer but in his defence he’s got a load of championship options throughout that attack so is trying to find a solution. Feel that Tella sub was unfair - can’t have done the lads confidence any good and is setting him up to fail.

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7 minutes ago, John Boy Saint said:

MOTD summed up our cannon fodder status - nothing to say about us.

I think Livramento needs a couple of weeks off, both him and his Dad were shocked he was in from the start for us, the lad is only 19 teams have sussed him out and target him. You could argue how is he going to learn if he isn’t playing - but maybe a little spell out will allow him to reset and go again………..it’s not as if his natural replacement is green.

Bang on, yes!

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11 minutes ago, Kingsbridge Saint said:

Going to read the rest of this thread next - but wanted to comment without any influence from whats gone before. James Ward-Prowse needs to be taken off corners. There aren't many worse them him in the EPL. After watching Allison completely flustered by balls under his crossbar three weeks ago week - West Ham scored twice like that - Ward-Prowse hit the first man on the nearside of the 6 yard box nearly every time. Followed usually by a 50 yard sprint back as we got hit on the break. Tactics or inability? Either way it was dreadful stuff.

Another I agree with. I've been saying for months how predictable and basic his corners are. No point getting a corner as without fail the ball lands on the head of the opposition, resulting in a scramble back into position. Saints must have one of the worst goal scoring records from corners. 

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4 hours ago, Chez said:

 

you've better eyesight than me.

I do, I do lol. I reckon there is. Just needs to play himself in. A bit like Salisu. Tbf we need him to. Not much depth there. Just give him a run if games to get into the rhythm and flow and I reckon he’ll do alright.

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27 minutes ago, Kingsbridge Saint said:After watching Allison completely flustered by balls under his crossbar three weeks ago week - West Ham scored twice like that - Ward-Prowse hit the first man on the nearside of the 6 yard box nearly every time. Followed usually by a 50 yard sprint back as we got hit on the break. Tactics or inability? Either way it was dreadful stuff.

I’m afraid I rather lost it the third time he did that. Failing to clear the first defender is a cardinal sin.

And, while we’re on the topic of making ourselves vulnerable to fast breaks, it is cretinously stupid to get Salisu to take a throw in at the far right corner flag when his defensive remit is 120 yards away. 

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1 hour ago, JustinSFC said:

Lineker is such a wanker.

On first MOTD in a game where we get hammered.

Played out of our skin v city and iirc we were still about 5th game on.

AGAINST CITY.

Blokes a tosser.

Edit: can't remember exactly what slot we had, MLG.

Inb4.

Don’t see the issue, there were 4 goals today, and none v City, irrespective of us playing extremely well that day. 

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3 hours ago, St Steve said:

 

In a change to previous stances, I am not going to have a go at the kids filming this as the world has moved on and the've gone a decent job ... however, no one gives a f*ck about chips or snow ...

What annoyed me about this is seeing grown adults wankering (?) each other, no more than 1 or 2 metres apart and nothing happening. Are people really that f**king wet now??

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5 hours ago, Golac's Cunning Stunts said:

I thought the ralph cult would be out in force tonight, smoothing it all over. You're the guy a couple of weeks back who was saying Villa were dreadful, nailed on for relegation. I see in another thread you say we need 100s of millions to complete with Liverpool. That might be true if you mean finishing above them in the league (although a few years back we did achieve that), but its not true for a one off game. Tell you what would have given us a better chance? A manager who set the team up solid to defend but oh, Ralph seems to think we can compete toe for toe at Anfield. Woeful idea. 

Firstly, never said Villa were nailed on for relegation. I think they are a poor side, worse than us, and I stand by that. They have a risk of relegation, certainly, but the favourites are Norwich, Watford, Burnley, Newcastle, and Brentford. They are two points ahead of us right now but their next three games are City, Leicester and Liverpool whereas ours are Leicester, Brighton and Arsenal so I would expect there is a decent chance that won't be the case for much longer.

Regarding a one off game, I agree, that's why I said "consistently". We took points off City and United so we can take points off bigger teams in one off games but they are better and if the team are on form and playing well then we will lose, and Liverpool were. I'm not saying we can never beat them, but a team the size of liverpool, you have to expect the occasional game like this one. Especially when they play as well as they did today. Also we did finish above them, but that was a different time. Liverpool were struggling at the time and we were at our absolute apex. We are no where near that team anymore and Liverpool are miles better than they were then, having won a premier league and champions league since then.

Finally, we did set up solidly to defend. We played three at the back, two holding mids, and not very adventurous wingbacks. We played two strikers and a 10 but it was a pretty defensive formation. Unfortunately such a thing can only take you so far if you have players like Bednarek playing against some of the best forwards in world football.

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11 hours ago, Bob76 said:

Even Ralph admitted he got it wrong today!

I reckon he probably took blame to take pressure off the team, which is fine. But honestly, against a liverpool side of that quality, playing that well, I genuinely believe there is nothing we could have done with our players to have gotten anything there today.

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29 minutes ago, Sidney Fudpucker the 3rd said:

Ralph is a clueless knobhead. When have we ever played 5-2-3? Why try it against Liverpool? If he'd gone 5-4-1 I could have seen the logic but that lineup was suicide before a ball was even kicked. 

Last week was a joke, this week was just embarrassing. 

He has got to go!!!

We don't win with a 541, if we park the bus a team of that quality breaks us down eventually. We needed some attacking threat on the break to even have an outlet and a chance, and a 3412 can provide that. We didn't win, because liverpool are exceptional and played as such, there was no formation imo which would have resulted in anything but a loss against that side today with their quality imo.

The formation we played, if they were off form or unlucky, may have yielded a draw. But they weren't. I don't think that's the case for a 541.

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11 minutes ago, TWar said:

He took blame to take pressure off the team, which is fine. But honestly, against a liverpool side of that quality, playing that well, I genuinely believe there is nothing we could have done with our players to have gotten anything there today.

Probably true, but we've also only managed 2 out of 9 points against the teams in the relegation places with our only wins being against the 2 teams directly above the drop zone and an Aston Villa team you believe is inferior to ours. Last season we only won 2 out of 20 matches against teams that finished in the top half (Liverpool and 10th placed finishers Everton) and haven't beaten any of the teams this season that are sitting in the top half. Either we have to be able to pick up results against the better teams now and then or need to be beating the majority of teams around us.

This is why the dropped points against the likes of Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley are frustrating and a little worrisome as these are our best chances of getting points on the board. The next run of games against the likes of Leicester, Brighton, Palace and Brentford should show us where we're actually at and the table is so tight you can jump up or drop dramatically with a couple of good or bad results right now.

I'm certainly not seeing Ralph getting us performing better than we should be though - i'd say we're about where i'd expect with this squad. Look over his time here - he took over an under performing team from Hughes and got them performing. He had a good season when he had the second highest scorer in the league (though not enough to get top half), a poor season when he had to deal with injuries and poor squad depth and now has us lingering in the middle of the bottom half with an average squad and no prolific scorer. I wouldn't say he's got us playing badly but it seems it's the players available that are making the biggest difference rather than his contributions - has he ever really had us playing above our level or have the periods of good and bad form purely been down to having/not having our best players available and/or on form? He may have reached 'Champions League' level while in Germany but he hasn't come close to that level in the Prem in my opinion.

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39 minutes ago, Diabolus Ex Machina said:

Probably true, but we've also only managed 2 out of 9 points against the teams in the relegation places with our only wins being against the 2 teams directly above the drop zone and an Aston Villa team you believe is inferior to ours. Last season we only won 2 out of 20 matches against teams that finished in the top half (Liverpool and 10th placed finishers Everton) and haven't beaten any of the teams this season that are sitting in the top half. Either we have to be able to pick up results against the better teams now and then or need to be beating the majority of teams around us.

This is why the dropped points against the likes of Norwich, Newcastle and Burnley are frustrating and a little worrisome as these are our best chances of getting points on the board. The next run of games against the likes of Leicester, Brighton, Palace and Brentford should show us where we're actually at and the table is so tight you can jump up or drop dramatically with a couple of good or bad results right now.

I'm certainly not seeing Ralph getting us performing better than we should be though - i'd say we're about where i'd expect with this squad. Look over his time here - he took over an under performing team from Hughes and got them performing. He had a good season when he had the second highest scorer in the league (though not enough to get top half), a poor season when he had to deal with injuries and poor squad depth and now has us lingering in the middle of the bottom half with an average squad and no prolific scorer. I wouldn't say he's got us playing badly but it seems it's the players available that are making the biggest difference rather than his contributions - has he ever really had us playing above our level or have the periods of good and bad form purely been down to having/not having our best players available and/or on form? He may have reached 'Champions League' level while in Germany but he hasn't come close to that level in the Prem in my opinion.

No. This is my main issue - he is an average manager, doing an average job, and maybe that is the best we can expect, but all those rose tinted supporters of his that think he is the messiah are mistaken IMHO. I just do not see us progressing under Ralph - yes he's a nice guy and all that but if he was an English manger from the lower leagues I'm not sure we would be as forgiving.

Sure, we don't have exceptional players or budget to compete with the elite but are we even competing with those around us? In our situation, I am judging Ralph and the board on us making steady progress year on year - losing to top sides is expected, but constantly changing your mind and tactics and blaming others is not. Just a few brief examples - want a small squad/squad not large enough, 4222/352, two competing keepers/only picking one, Tella mustard/crap as he doesn't fit the team, I give young players a chance/when was the last time you did recently (other than Livero, who I am sure now only signed for us as he was promised first team inclusion from day one and needs a rest and reminded that he is not automatic #1), "we are building automism" (what ever that means)/oh feck that doesn't work.

I'm sure I'll get the usual experts on here battering me, but this is a forum and these are my views. This is not a reactionary post to todays result - you will see from my past posts that I have been unconvinced about Ralph for some time now. With the current set up we are going down sooner or later - will a change of manager, board, owner avoid this? Who knows but only a fool keeps doing the same things and expects a different result.

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3 hours ago, Red said:

No. This is my main issue - he is an average manager, doing an average job, and maybe that is the best we can expect, but all those rose tinted supporters of his that think he is the messiah are mistaken IMHO. I just do not see us progressing under Ralph - yes he's a nice guy and all that but if he was an English manger from the lower leagues I'm not sure we would be as forgiving.

Sure, we don't have exceptional players or budget to compete with the elite but are we even competing with those around us? In our situation, I am judging Ralph and the board on us making steady progress year on year - losing to top sides is expected, but constantly changing your mind and tactics and blaming others is not. Just a few brief examples - want a small squad/squad not large enough, 4222/352, two competing keepers/only picking one, Tella mustard/crap as he doesn't fit the team, I give young players a chance/when was the last time you did recently (other than Livero, who I am sure now only signed for us as he was promised first team inclusion from day one and needs a rest and reminded that he is not automatic #1), "we are building automism" (what ever that means)/oh feck that doesn't work.

I'm sure I'll get the usual experts on here battering me, but this is a forum and these are my views. This is not a reactionary post to todays result - you will see from my past posts that I have been unconvinced about Ralph for some time now. With the current set up we are going down sooner or later - will a change of manager, board, owner avoid this? Who knows but only a fool keeps doing the same things and expects a different result.

This is pretty much spot on. 
but I’m sure the Ralph apologists will trot out some form of defence. 

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He tried something different to try and win - it didnt work and he changed it at half time.

Not much to really say more than that.

Better teams than us will get spanked by more.

Edit - also i want to see lyanco and salisu start in a 4 next game.

Edited by Convict Colony
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6 hours ago, TWar said:

He took blame to take pressure off the team, which is fine. But honestly, against a liverpool side of that quality, playing that well, I genuinely believe there is nothing we could have done with our players to have gotten anything there today.

You’ve absolutely no idea why he took the blame, none whatsoever. I’d imagine 95% of supporters think he took it, because that’s where the blame lays. But no, not you. You’re still spouting this bizarre pony that it was the right decision. It was the wrong formation, we know it, Ralph’s admitted it, yet in the rush to “see” things others can’t and attempting to portray yourself as a supreme analyst, you’re making a plank of yourself. Give it up. 

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6 hours ago, TWar said:

We don't win with a 541, if we park the bus a team of that quality breaks us down eventually. We needed some attacking threat on the break to even have an outlet and a chance, and a 3412 can provide that. We didn't win, because liverpool are exceptional and played as such, there was no formation imo which would have resulted in anything but a loss against that side today with their quality imo.

The formation we played, if they were off form or unlucky, may have yielded a draw. But they weren't. I don't think that's the case for a 541.

That formation never had any prospect of competing, mainly because it conceded midfield by being a man short. That's not hindsight, I and others said it in the build up thread as it was obvious what would happen. 

The hilarious part of you defending yesterdays tactics is that Ralph isn't even defending them. 

I expected to lose yesterday, but I didn't expect Ralph to hand them the midfield, thus the game, and that's exactly what he did. 

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6 hours ago, TWar said:

He took blame to take pressure off the team, which is fine. But honestly, against a liverpool side of that quality, playing that well, I genuinely believe there is nothing we could have done with our players to have gotten anything there today.

Wow, so glad the club don't give up like you, every match can be won and Ralph had admitted that he messed up and the setup did not give the team the chance it needed. Seems it's only you who thinks otherwise. (Last post)

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3 minutes ago, Lord Duckhunter said:

You’ve absolutely no idea why he took the blame, none whatsoever. I’d imagine 95% of supporters think he took it, because that’s where the blame lays. But no, not you. You’re still spouting this bizarre pony that it was the right decision. It was the wrong formation, we know it, Ralph’s admitted it, yet in the rush to “see” things others can’t and attempting to portray yourself as a supreme analyst, you’re making a plank of yourself. Give it up. 

Yep. There's not much to analyse about his admission other than he accepts he messed it up; and his tactics involved a line of defenders with no wide protection, two in midfield against 3, a forward dropping off and looking a bit lost, and two other forwards feeding off whatever scraps the others could feed them when we had the ball. Only on planet Ralph was that ever a good idea. 

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5 hours ago, Red said:

No. This is my main issue - he is an average manager, doing an average job, and maybe that is the best we can expect, but all those rose tinted supporters of his that think he is the messiah are mistaken IMHO. I just do not see us progressing under Ralph - yes he's a nice guy and all that but if he was an English manger from the lower leagues I'm not sure we would be as forgiving.

Sure, we don't have exceptional players or budget to compete with the elite but are we even competing with those around us? In our situation, I am judging Ralph and the board on us making steady progress year on year - losing to top sides is expected, but constantly changing your mind and tactics and blaming others is not. Just a few brief examples - want a small squad/squad not large enough, 4222/352, two competing keepers/only picking one, Tella mustard/crap as he doesn't fit the team, I give young players a chance/when was the last time you did recently (other than Livero, who I am sure now only signed for us as he was promised first team inclusion from day one and needs a rest and reminded that he is not automatic #1), "we are building automism" (what ever that means)/oh feck that doesn't work.

I'm sure I'll get the usual experts on here battering me, but this is a forum and these are my views. This is not a reactionary post to todays result - you will see from my past posts that I have been unconvinced about Ralph for some time now. With the current set up we are going down sooner or later - will a change of manager, board, owner avoid this? Who knows but only a fool keeps doing the same things and expects a different result.

Spot on mate. The Perraud/Walker-Peters flip flopping is another of Ralph’s idiosyncratic fumblings. 

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8 hours ago, CanadaSaint said:

I’m afraid I rather lost it the third time he did that. Failing to clear the first defender is a cardinal sin.

And, while we’re on the topic of making ourselves vulnerable to fast breaks, it is cretinously stupid to get Salisu to take a throw in at the far right corner flag when his defensive remit is 120 yards away. 

Finally people are starting to notice that ward prowse hits the first man on nearly every corner of every game we play. Surely he is better than that or is that our tactic in the hope that we get a head to flick it on? 

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38 minutes ago, Fitzhugh Fella said:

Spot on mate. The Perraud/Walker-Peters flip flopping is another of Ralph’s idiosyncratic fumblings. 

I’m all up for changing players when injured or needing a break, but he doesn’t know who is his best left back. It was the same for large chunk when we had Bertrand, who at the time was one of the best LBs in the country.

I’m still just in the keep Ralph, but I’m not sure i will have much festive cheer for him come the end of the year.

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