SnailOB

But one cost £500k while one cost £14,000,000

 

Also one was paid about £10k a week, the other £35-65kpw (TBC)

 

The fact that there is not much between them (contribution wise) shows how poor Gaston has been

 

Punch joined us in league 1 and was here to do a job, Gaston was a marquee signing that has delivered next to nothing.

 

Reality is - id prefer to have Punch over Gaston regardless of fee and wages - he's the better player imho

Now that is an actual opinion that can be debated/argued/discussed and might have been the better choice for your OP rather than

Did we offload the wrong player? Sure looks like it

Which seemed factually incorrect as general consensus was that Puncheon asked to leave rather than being offloaded. If you lead with this it 'might' have saved a couple of pages of the usual BS.

For what my opinion is worth, the comment that Puncheon may well have been the better player for us this season than Ramirez, I think on balance i would agree with (but I would also take fee and wages into consideration).

Unfortunately Puncheon allegedly chose to leave for personal reasons (although depending on your stance, some posters prefer to believe that he was forced out / pushed with no evidence to support this. We do have quotes / articles from Puncheon and the club that he left for personal reasons but again some posters would rather choose to ignore this) so not much we can do about it.

Not looking to overly knock Ramirez but I would say it is apparent that his contributions to date have not been that great.

But can't compare the two in the way the OP tried

I care and have a love for the game hence my post, do you agree it fair for fans to pay a fee to watch something knowing the club does not want the, to win as it could hamper "their" goals ie winning the Cup and getting into Europe?

 

Rather the club just came out and said

 

"Due to the continued slant towards the larger clubs (all through the League systems)there is no way now we can ever realistically attempt to win the League or qualify for the Champions League so we are going to treadwater in the middle of the table and be labelled a plucky underdog by the media, they will pat us on the head and we shall nod enthusiastically as we love being in the limelight (being a patsy), we will get a couple of good results a season to quell the possible unrest of the supporters (patsies) and tell them of a long long journey being embarked upon, so long in fact no one actually knows if we have started it, finished it or are acutally on it"

Is that what really happened with the FA cup ? (I assume this is what you are alluding to)

I agree with your sentiment but with the FA Cup we really did have a team out there that were capable of winning that game. Afterwards, to a man they all came out and said how disappointed they were but in reality the performance levels were not good enough. Was the defeat really a club decision ? I would like to think not, I just think the players let everyone down with the way they palyed. That said, pretty sure Lambert didn't deliberately miss from 6 yards !

From another perspective, If our team is that good then we were more than capable of beating Cardiff this weekend, Sunderland in the league home and away, Villa at home, Norwich away etc.. and yet f*cked that up. If (as some posters mentioned on previous threads) the manager was more interested in the league because he would get better performance pay then how do you explain those games ?

I am very disappointed with the FA Cup exit as the road to Wembley after Sunderland game was a great opportunity to get to the final but I do not think the defeat was anything more than a poor performance from the players, just like those 'winnable' league games we have managed to lose this season.

As for winning the league - unfortunately as a Southampton fan I do not think it is a realistic goal because of the way teams like Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd etc.. seem to have money to throw away, that said I'm pretty sure that the team/club do not go out each season with intention of not trying to win it.

Have taken this thread off topic now - apologies for that. Will slink away quietly.......

The ambition of the club like mosts is to spout European crap but hope to high ****e they dont achieve it, imagine European football with our squad and no real intent to strengthen?

Rinse and repeat of what we have nearly always done since Sky have come along, stay here and collect the money, where has that money gone? ****s knows.

Question for you Barry - if that is what you truly believe, why do you support Saints / Follow football ?

I will admit to having felt the same about the above in the past but in all honesty, I have enjoyed watching this Southampton team progress over the last 5 seasons, I have really enjoyed how we have competed for most of this season. I have enjoyed watching Southampton finally produce some players who could compete for the English national side. I have enjoyed the style of football the team/manager are playing.

Like all fans I don't like seeing us lose especially games that 'on paper' feel we should win (Sunderland, Villa, Cardiff etc..)

I was disappointed with the FA cup (to save posting on another thread - I did not/do not want to swap positions with Sunderland or Hull).

I am also aware that players and managers come and go but then thats nothing new.

But you do not seem to enjoy football at all - does it really get you that down ? do you take any pleasure in watching Southampton at all ?

Personally I am not going to worry too much about what might or might not happen over the summer and who might or might not go. At the end of the day there is nothing I can do about it. That said, if you want a range of opinions -

I would be in the camp that tends to think a lot will depend on whether the manager stays or goes.

If he stays then I believe that those players most of us would want to stay will stay. I would like to think that after the progress the team has made this season that they would like to give one more season to see how far the team really can go (A domestic cup / Europa League qualification etc..) If there is no further progress than 08th to 10th then I think the manager and players will look to move on in 2015/2016

If there was one player (of those we would want to keep) this summer who I think is most likely to go then its Morgan. He has shown himself to be one of the top performers in his position and yet cannot get international recognition at Southampton. He may well get that by moving to a 'bigger' club.

In meantime - keep smiling

We owe them for nicking Coutinho last year. QUOTE]

 

I think we owe them for letting us have Forren and Ramirez !

Great game, loved almost every minute of it.

 

As happened last year, we steam rollered Arsenal with our immense work rate and fast closing down, but we somehow didn't manage to come away with a win. Last season a lucky own goal was the cause, this season it was us failing to continue the closing down and pressing just after the break allowing Arsenal the room to breath they desperately needed. For all those doubting Lallana's captaincy credentials, you should have seen him shouting at the rest of the side after the Arsenal goals to push up and press them, which we thankfully did.

 

Boric - could he have done better with the second? I've not seen a replay, so just asking. It seemed to take an age to slice into the corner. He didn't have a great deal to do, which shows how well we played. Calm as always, but not too calm. Good to see him come off his line for corners, especially as we lacked a little height. I notice we didn't have men on the posts. Is that new?

Chambers - I thought he was absolutely outstanding once again. He gets so tight to opponents, biting at their heals. He's good in the air, quick enough and extremely competent on the ball. He is great going forward, with a brilliant drop of the shoulder. I find it amazing how poor many of the fullbacks are in the top four sides (Sagna for example is woeful) and yet we have three absolutely top draw ones of our own.

Fonte - decent solid game.

Yoshida - some very good, such as showing pace and nipping in to cut out passes and even being physical on one or two occasions, but some very poor stuff too, such as some weak as **** headers straight back into the danger area (he's Chris Perry Mark II) and a host of poor clearances, some off the studs no less. Lots of effort and I'll cut him some slack as yet again he is thrown in without a run of games, but overall our worst player on the night be a considerable distance

Shaw - just wanted to see the guy take Sagna on more, but he can't go to the byeline all night despite my encouragement for him to do so. I'd like to see him shoot more often too. Just drive and hit it three or four times a game.

Cork - my man of the match. he was everywhere and I mean everywhere. He was relentless. The only thing he doesn't have is that little touch of guile around the box, but he makes up for it elsewhere - shown perfectly in the first half when bounding forward to near the Arsenal box and then having his through ball cut out, Arsenal breaking before he steals the ball on the edge of our box. There were about 12 blades of grass he didn't cover. I've said it a few times on here. I simply do not understand why MP ignored him earlier in the season. I can understand why VW started, but to not have Cork coming on off the bench when making a centre midfield sub amazed me.

Morgan - I thought he was a little quite in the first half, perhaps his good work was towards the other side of the pitch, but he had a great second half once we got going.

Lallana - faded a little towards the end, but he works so hard its not surprising. Is there a Saints player more enjoyable to watch. If we are going to go down in Brazil lets go down playing him in the hole where he belongs.

Davis - I really enjoy watching him too. His touch is immaculate. He lacks that yard of pace and real dribbling ability, but he has great awareness. The pass to put Shaw in in the second half was top notch. Need a few more goals out of him Morgan and Cork though.

JRod - I agree with many that he can't play up the middle on his own. Perhaps as a pair, but not on his own. With every game he seems to grow in confidence and he started like a house on fire. Pity he faded out at the end when we had them on the rack.

Gallagher - Excellent debut. Showed great mobility and played on the shoulder of the last defender, which gave the Arsenal centre back real problems. I don't think those two have improved at all, they have just had more protection from Flamini. Stretching teams the other way is not something we have done a great deal with Lambert and made us a more threatening side. I was expecting far less. He looked comfortable at that level. In the end though he will need to score goals to be seen as effective. His work rate and closing down helped us regain possession a lot. I doubt Arsenal have kicked the ball long from the keeper as much all season. I wonder if him coming into the side will create that Man Utd 1992 vibe and the players all stick around. Not sure it will, but you never know.

Pretty much all of that

I voted Cork as MOM as well. What impressed me most about his performance was when he did break up play and had Arsenal players around him, at no time did he look rushed or panicked on the ball. As mentioned above, only downside to his game is when he does pop up in a good position on edge of box (which was quite a few times last night) it would be nice if he was confident with striking a ball.

I would be really disappointed to see him out of the side again, think he proved last season that he was the missing link and his return from injury helped improve team performances. Yes, Wanyama is a solid player but Cork more than deserves his start in the team.

Martn O'Neill definitely counts and is the only one I could name who has a comparable record to Redknapp. Excellent at Leicester and Villa and a decent Euro record with Celtic.

 

He suffers from being, like old Saggy chops, someone the general dinlows on this forum have decided is terrible regardless of facts. Which is why Tamesaint is desperately quoting Joe Royle instead of more obvious names like O'Neill.

Another 'debatable' call - Steve McClaren ?

At Middlesbrough won league cup and reached UEFA Cup final.

Went on to become England manager, but like most England managers succumbed to the pressure and ultimately failed.

Re-invented himself at Twente and won their first ever title (not many English/British managers work let alone succeed overseas)

Now re-inventing himself again at Derby and doing quite well.

(To be fair i'm struggling to convince myself, I know a number of 'Boro fans and they didn't rate him that highly)

If you were to compare McClaren with Redknapp then really we needed to see how Harry would have coped with the England job. I suppose the same could be said about Keegan and Taylor. All quite good club managers but totally ruined after taking the England job.

Joe Royle's astonishing achievement of finishing top six one whole time, his relegation of Man City and his abject failure to take Ipswich back up are the hallmarks if a truly "stellar" career in management.

 

And the fact he couldn't get arrested after that (apart from going back to Oldham) only prove how truly, truly outstanding he was.

Not one of those managers who are rubbish and keep getting jobs at top flight clubs. Not Stellar Joe Royle.

 

Okay, that's one name. Joe Royle, unquestionably one of Britains finest ever managers. But you must have loads more, right? Must be tripping off the tongue.

Does Martin O'Neil count ? Unfashionable Leicester, League cup winners twice and runners up once. Promotion to Premier League. Don't believe he left the club in financial dire straights either. No suggestion that he overspent / spent money that wasn't there in order to achieve his success.

If you take Harrys success at Bournemouth then I suppose you could compare him with Lambert at Norwich who achieved back to back promotions in what some would consider a more difficult era.

If you want to look at his F.A. cup win with Portsmouth (who are still dealing with the problems of that 'success') then you can look at Martin O'Neil with Leicester in the League Cup. Although must be noted that With regards to F.A. Cup, in the last 30 years I don't think there are many teams outside of top 4 who have actually won it so it was a good achievement (although level of finalist helped).

His work at West Ham was mentioned although I believe a lot of West Ham fans would question how successful his time there actually was.

Then there is Tottenham - who to be fair are not really one of the small clubs. Harry appeared to be doing a good job there BUT if he was such a 'success', then why was he moved on ?

I think his current club gives a better insight into how good he is now. Last season he had quite a while to put things right for QPR and he spent once again A LOT of money but still achieved relegation. If you compare him to Pulis at Crystal Palace, Pulis has come in and changed CPs results around immediately and has taken them out of the relegation zone. IF Palace survive - would you then consider Pulis a better manager than Harry ?

I suppose depends on your definition of success.

Will we be able to take 'Thank You Nicola' banners to the next home game or do we think stewards will confiscate them like they did when Nigel left ?

We have had a few injuries - I accept that, we have also had a tough(ish) run of fixtures. However does that tell the full story? Mopo was supposed to take us to the next level and was backed heavily in the summer. As it stands however mopo has the lowest career win ration of all prem managers and one of the lowest in the top 4 English leagues.

 

We finished the end of last season with 0 wins in 6 and now we have one in nine – the high press is the problem imho, its just not sustainable for a squad our size and quality. It works for Barcelona as they have a squad full of world class players. Is it a failing of mopo that he doesn’t seem to have a plan B and is still persevering with his one tactic despite its limitations

 

Managers are judged on results, not performances – mopo has not delivered enough results and the stats highlight that.

You look at the manager stats (I know they are of interest to you as you like to update them on nearly every thread) and I'll have a look at the league table. I will also watch the games and pass judgement based on the way the team are playing.

As far as I'm concerned, this is the first time I can honestly say Saints have the potential to beat any team they face. I'm not saying they will (as results obviously show) but the potential is there. Some of the football being played is the best I've seen for a long time from a Saints side. Our biggest problems at the moment are injuries and squad depth. Yes I know injuries affect all teams but it is a fact. Also, our back up defenders and Goalkeepers are just not good enough (Chambers excluded) and the poor judgement in recent games from Gazzaniga, Yoshida and Jos have shown how bad our 'second string' are. Unfortunately this is something that will take time to address.

All in all, for halfway stage, I'm very happy

Think problem most posters seem to have with your OP is that you seem to be a poster just itching for the opportunity to say 'I told you so' IF it all goes wrong.

Personally, I have a little bit more faith in MP based on what i've actually seen

Because for once the whole country is on Clattenburgs side and not on ours.

I think NC and the club have never worried about being popular. Not that long ago we were classed as 'South Coast Club' in the media, now its gone totally the other direction with an OTT Southampton love fest.

It does 'seem' that the 'bigger' clubs get a better deal from referees as they tend to shout the loudest about refereeing decisions (How many years did Clattenburg go without a game at Everton ? How many years was Fergie able to almost dictate who could/couldn't come to OT ?). I think SFC want to be in that 'bigger' club category. As I mentioned above, it will all depend on how we are refereed in the future as to whether this action has back-fired or not.

This has backfired then hasn't it.

Has it ? What was the objective ?

I'm guessing it was to either remove Clattenburg from officiating at our games or to make referees think twice before giving the easy decision against the team.

At the end of the day, the complaint wasn't very well presented and I think the Independent article summed up the possible reason for our action rather well. I suppose we will see how effective the complaint was next time we have Clattenburg as a referee, or for that matter - how referees handle our games going forward.

I didnt think Adkins should have gone, but this is Cortese we are talking about, we know he is capable. We are halfwayish and 9th looks pretty good. But if our current form continues we will be in the bottom half soon enough. Except Lovern the new signings havent excatly set the world alight. Some of those early wins against top sides were the result of a lot of hard work, and the players dont look capable of repeating that right now. I thought we could get amongst the top teams this year after our early performances, but I think that false dawn is now coming back to bite us by over excurtion. It will be interesting to see how the team bounce back as the fixture callender eases up. If they dont we might just be welcoming a new face to st Marys, but someone will be waiting in the wings again so it will be a few weeks from the time the decision is made till the plug is pulled.

As per the above. Bottom line is we do not know what NC is likely to do.

A lot of people saying recent run of results shouldn't be used to judge MP as these were games against most of the top 7 with key players missing (like Boruc). But what games was Adkins judged on last season ? Adkins had to play the top sides right from the start and with (IMO) a weaker squad (which included our 3rd choice keeper)

Personally I like the way we play and for the first time I believe that Saints can go out and beat anyone in this division (I don't expect it week in / week out but I truly believe we are capable) so I am happy to see MP in charge still. Then again, I was happy to give Adkins more time.

With the squad we have I believe we are about where we should be for the moment. It was a relevant question from the OP, alas as we are not NC none of us are in a position to answer it.

Because if Man Utd would rather play the absolute tosh in Wellwide etc why would we drop Lallana for someone that they don't even want?

Why not Ince...because he would be a pain in the arse and doesnt want to move South and who would you drop in place of him?

I would rather we stick with proven players and our decent youth.

Your argument is rubbish because one doesn't even want to come here...the other is no better than what we have now and would mean we drop one of our better players...how is that even an argument?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

So you advocate dropping Lallana for Zaha? Do you think he would come and play second fiddle ?

I dont see why we need to bring in unproven players ...we have our own like Rowe, Isgrove and maybe Sinclair

Did I read this thread wrong ?

I thought 'Give it to Ron' started by questioning why people thought Zaha would be good in the Premiership just because he was good in the championship, hence the comparisons with Lallana, Ince etc... Thought the reply fit the question. Why did we buy Clyne or Rodriguez or Fonte etc.... Their purchases were based on their games in the Championship and all of them are showing that they can perform in the Premier League.

That aside, I think that Zaha has potential to be a great player but I would agree with Ron when he said "No loans for me...who would we get that would improve our team otherwise what is the point just holds up development of youth team." I don't think Zaha would be a big improvement on what we have and prove to have a major impact (although if he was available for a cut price fee, I would consider a purchase so that he could be developed at the club over a longer period)

With the ambitions that SFC now have, should we even be looking at the loan market ?

At the time was a big fan of Andy Townsend.

Also Rod Wallace impressed me (was he 'popular' ?)

Also remember a young CB we had - think name was Steve Davis (?), only had a handful of games but at the time he reminded me of Mark Wright (comfortable on ball), unfortunately never made it here. Think he ended up at Burnley

Saints fan attends first game of new season and makes observations about his family match day experience. Observation about catering which (if numbers of people on concourse is anything to go by) seems to be used by many fans.

Usual posters come on and ridicule Saints fan for pointless post (when its probably easier for them to ignore)

Amazing when you consider some of the inane sh*te that is posted by others on a daily basis.

With regards to the OP, quality of catering at UK arenas / stadia / events never seem to represent value for money. Yes, it would be easier to obtain food and drink before entering St Marys. Yes, this would probably be a more effective protest than sharing your match day experience on a Saints fans forum.

That said, don't believe you should be treated like a pr*ck on here for sharing

I appreciate what the OP is saying but the problem we seem to have is breaking down teams who try to counter our pressing system by sitting back and trying to hit us on the break.

Majority of our play yesterday seemed to be through the middle which was very easy for Sunderland to deal with. We never seemed to get behind them and never utilised the width of the pitch often enough. When we did spray the ball wide, no-one seemed to have the pace to beat the defender and get to the by-line.

If one of the 'attacking 3' (think someone used Tottenham as an example) had real pace and could play as a winger, then surely that would increase our options.

At the moment, our attacking players seem a but pedestrian.

Didn't cost Leicester fans anywhere near that a couple of years ago. To quote Eddie Mitchell :

"We see the fixture as a well earned gift to our fans for their unwavering dedication to AFC Bournemouth, and also an opportunity for us to put the town of Bournemouth on the map"

At £55 / £60 thats a lovely gift !

So £50 for an adult shirt when it's already been established that basic shirt template can be purchased for £17.99. Wonderful !

Can we just keep a kit for a couple of seasons ? Why is everyone so keen for a 5th change in 5 years ?

Not bothered

Forgetting the design for a moment - 4th shirt in 4 years, and with change of sponsor expected next season, most likely 5 in 5.

Wasn't that long ago fans moaned about this sort of thing, now its a social media frenzy because we 'might' have seen something a day early.

We could also do some sort of link with Kinder.

 

So you think a Uruguyan player who has been compared to Suarez would be ideally linked with a campaign for Bueno 'WHITE'

I think not ....

Manager in support of man who employed him shocker !!

What a load of BS. MP makes a comment just like every player does when asked about a manager under pressure or playing for a new manager etc... All meaningless comments.

As for the affect on future transfers - players are mercenaries. If they get offerred more money to play at another club and have the chance to put themselves in the shop window, change of manager means nothing.

Overall, not too bothered by the whole episode, we had bigger concerns a few years ago when we very nearly had no club at all. Now we are all worrying over a chairman and manager.

I don't want NC or MP to leave but if they do I really don't think its the end of the world.

Done. Hope it helps

I'm a little bit late to the party but have i missed something - are we desperate for money ?

If so, then if money needed as squad needs strengthening then cash in on Gaston. If we remain in premier league and earn **** loads of money for the privilege then why do we need to sell ? He has skills but hasn't delivered as expected this year but the boy undoubtedly has talent. This 12m hasn't come out of my pocket and if we sell him and get money back, it sure as hell isn't going into my pocket so i'm happy for him to stay.

Would look at offloading a lot more fringe players before even looking at Gaston.

Ashley Williams for defence, Sinclair for wide options - is Benteke too unrealistic ?