Nineteen Canteen

Speculator has gone, there's more than enough evidence. After yesterday's antics in this thread I'm seriously considering just getting rid of 19C as well.

More than enough evidence? A separate poster using the same IP address and with similar views as myself? Is it one username per household from now on then Steve?

I would be interested to hear on what grounds you wish to get rid of me as well? Posting a valid alternative opinion? Not all Saint's fans start frothing at the mouth at the mere mention of Portsmouth and some just appreciate the much needed rivalry they provide.

We are no better then Portsmouth when it comes down to filling our ground and so a thread based on some misdirected oneupmanship I think it should be challenged. Yes we have a bigger fan base allegedly, although how that can be proved I am not sure and yes we had 50k at Wembley but they sold out their FA Cup Final tickets didn't they and in any event where are all our supporters red and blue now? Not even 50% of our Wembley turnout bothered to come along and greet the team at the first home match since that win.

Remember, I am an old school football fan and was bought up in a family who followed both red and blue for many years and still enjoy seeing both clubs do well. In my case I am a completely committed Saints fan but at the same time respect the role Portsmouth have played in our history and one I hope they continue to do so in the future.

Or are you simply prejudiced against allegedly retarded ***** or posters who report such ignorant abuse?

If you consider removing me perhaps you should consider dropping 'forum' from the title although you seem happy to let Portsmouth fans post their views or perhaps your particular branch of prejudice runs a little deeper?

Nineteen Canteen aka Sundance Beast aka Flashman at the charge aka the Fourth Bear etc etc now posts as Speculator. I think he keeps Nineteen Canteen when posting on holidays and barmitzvahs. :-) :-)

Hello Tame, Barmitzvahs? I'm only half Jewish but upon asking I was allowed to make half my normal posts.

Not relevant to your post but just to say I agree we have the larger fan base and therefore percentages of those that do attend vs capacity is a fair way of determining support. We have as many disaffected fans post administration as Pompey have currently - fact.

You've been very quiet recently. Holiday? But inevitably you couldn't resist responding on this thread to raise this particular point in defence of the Skates' own version of you.

 

Undoubtedly there were quite a few who boycotted the Lowe regime, although even then our attendances have often exceeded those at Krap Nottarf, even though we were a division below them at the time.

 

If they have fans who as a matter of principle boycott their corrupt regimes of the past season, then I respect their position. It's the ones who are in denial about their low attendances that make me laugh. In defence of the Ho, he does admit that it's surprising that attendances at their dump have remained even at that poor level, so he clearly believes that there is a strong element of boycott with them too for similar reasons to ours.

 

Our boycott rid us of the charlatans who had run the club for the past decade and brought about the arrival of the man who has changed our fortunes for the better. But we still had a decent stadium and infrastructure and low debt levels that made us an attractive proposition to a buyer. Ho knows if he is truthful that the Skates are a basket case. All this defence of his poxy club is not unexpected, but he knows in his heart that it is all bluster.

Don't disagree with most of this to be fair Wes it just seems odd that we were in a better position than Pompey but still deserted the club in our hour of need or least many did. If we spoke of percentages in terms of attendances vs capacity we were barely achieving 60% and even post admin when the call to arms went up he didn't break 28k even with Charlton's support. If Pompey's attendances fall to 12k next season they will be more than on a par with ours post relegation as 18k is c.55% and 20k is c.61.5%. We keep telling ourselves we have the larger fanbase so perhaps percentages rather than simple numbers is a more fairer way of d1ck waving.

We got rid of a hated regime but unlike Pompey's they at least gave us a legacy worthy of saving and it is a much sadder state of affairs down the road. At least they have a supporters trust who seem more dynamic than our disjointed efforts ever were and facing up to the prospect of a new incarnation of Pompey something many of our fans refused to acknowledge in the dark days of Fialka and MLT's ostrich like endorsement.

In my defence I have been very reserved in my comments on the whole sorry saga so whinging about my inability to resist a response is very wide of the mark. I may be in the minority but it will be a sad day for us all if our greatest rivals fold and for many on this forum who have become obsessed to the point of distraction by our neighbours. Having gone through the car crash scenario ourselves its very surprising we have quite so many rubber neckers.

Even in our most recent moment of triumph our supporters could not simply celebrate the Saints winning the cup and we had to resort to the boring songs about Pompey. Sometimes it's best to focus on what we have (or not), than what others don't.

Yours truly

The sort of retarded c u n t that Saintkiptanui and Vershinin can only hope of pulling one day with their collective wit. +1

Just out of interest how many fans do you think have deliberately boycotted going as they were making a protest against the plethora of owners and the money laundry regime versus those who could not be bothered?

Considerably less than those fans of ours who chose to stay away last season and run the risks Pompey fans now face. It makes of laugh that at times some posters can be so delusional it beggars belief. Perhaps i was one of the 11k at the Sheff Utd game last season who still can remember asking the question where have all the so called supporters gone ?

16k in relative terms dwarfs our efforts when the chips were down and we couldn t even deliver a coherent supporters association let alone a plan. Time to reign our thick necks in a touch ?

I think there is more too it than your first comment but I am not prepared to betray a confidence by elaborating. All I would say is that it is very easy to judge without knowing all of the facts.

I do agree with your second statement though.

If you agree with the second statement then you are judging without the facts .

When his drink drive offence came to light it war easy to judge him as am idiot acting as if he would not get caught and i fell into the trap of judging on that event in isolation.

In hindsight it may now be the case the man is dealing with more serious demons than simple stupidity and arrogance.

I just hope he get's help sounds to me that quite possibly he has the disease of alcoholism /addiction which i wouldn't infict on my worsed enemy .....

Agreed and some of the stupid and inflammatory comments are the ramblings of the ignorant or those in denial who believe they can control their own addictions.

I hope he gets the help too look forward and enjoy his life without the crutches of drugs and booze . The real chumps are the likes of Dune and SRS but what do we expect

Yep, torn achilles tendon. Not only is he out of the World Cup, that could be the end of his career, at his age. Some people don't come back from that one. Feel sorry for the bloke, in a way.

I agree about feeling sorry for him but it makes Capello's job easier as Beckham's selection would have been more akin to a rabbits foot than a serious selection (a specialist free kick taker on the bench) and we are not exactly short of choices on the right.

I like Beckham and hopefuly he can a get job in English football so he can start to challenge the baffoons who run European and World football. It will be waste of his celebrity / kudos in the game if we fon't use them but lets' not hodl our breath the forward thing FA will see things like that.

Why does this sort of thing always happy to the guys and not the likes of John Terry? Anyway, in a way for Beckham it may turn out to be a blessing disguise to go out on a career injury than keep playing until you fade away or simply overlooked.

Local nut job in "You're an average writer" put down shocker... I'm cut to the quick...

 

Keep taking the pills, are the black clouds still closing

Black clouds still closing? Keep taking the pills? You don't know the half of it Daren but then again I didn't go for the sympathy vote like yourself. For me it was always about dealing with a betrayal of trust and the resultant and expected prejudices that this forum delivered unfortunately just like in real life except the comments are perhaps not quite so robust.

If mouths had been kept shut I would not be subjected to your childlike insults which frankly most have respectfully refrained from playing that personal insult apart from the ignorant minority. I suppose it was lucky I didn't have cancer because that really is a laugh a minute just like any other untreatable and serious illness.

Anyway, this I suspect may be my last post for a while but before I go can I suggest some reading for you even though you will need to get past the fact they don't come with a red top.

Depression the Curse ot the Strong - Dr Tim Cantopher

Darkness Visible - William Styron

I'm sure being a literary giant like Styron you will be familiar with his works and in this one he explains why 'black clouds still closing' doesn't even get close in serious cases of clinical depression. Dr Cantopher delivers some hope for those who find themselves in that situation.

Unfortunately, for some of us our options are extremely limited for many reasons and are less real than Tim suggests. Not terminal but nonetheless interminable and in particular at times of uncontrollable descent into self-destruction a wretched existence for both sufferer and their loved ones and one borne in secrecy out of prejudice and the shame felt by the sufferer and their family because of painfully ignorant people like yourself.

With that in mind do you think I'm due a signed shirt from the club? I would hate to ask and get turned down and have to go for the sympathy vote on the forum but then again some of us fight our personal battles in private.

Apologies to those enjoying their ironic ex-pat postings. I enjoyed them and I guess it will now be my turn to join you in exile. Top right Daren.

Oh I "got it"... I got the immensely amusing take on an ex-pat's blog/post I just didn't find it as rib bustingly funny as you seem to think it was.

 

Funny how my spin on your original

 

slipped past you as well... Oh the irony....

 

Likewise I got how you managed to get a Le Tissier rant in a thread about ex pats, so the theory that you were being "humourous" or "ironic" is just a pile of horsesheet... You're just a dull, stuck record.

 

Thank god you can't afford the £5....

I know it's a disgrace as back in my day I was paid a pittance compared to today and now I have to try and survive on 3 posts a day. If only I pulled off that friendly little sting I would have enough fivers to keep me in posts for life.

Now if you will excuse me I'm off to view some local entertainment venues with a view to investment do you fancy writing the flyers/programme...on second thoughts I know an average ghost writer.

Possibly one of the funniest posts I've ever read!

 

I think you should maybe have another read of your Descartes, perhaps something got lost in translation?

It was just a play on words and granted, maybe an obtuse angle but perhaps not all Cortese's philosophy on the the future of this club and what we have acheived this season in comparison to Nooorwich and Charltoon (Solent interview) shows he is at times not thinking and that does not always justify or explains his existence at the club. What is more important by interminable degrees is Mr Liebherr's involvement.

It's a worry that with all Pardew has achieved and the apparent lack of recognition from Cortese we could end up with QPR syndrome. Add that to some less than IMO rational ideas at least until out 5 year plan is consolidated with stability in the top flight we are gambling with either gifts or loans from a wealthy owner who really needs to be worshipped as our Deity and that is something we do not need to think about, we are at SMS because he is,

It's a bizarre suggestion and hopefully not one based on the turn out for the JPT final where numbers have been bouyed by ST holders taking the chance to give members of their family a day out who would never normally contemplate or probably be able to afford a ticket on a regular basis.

I like to try and read and understand the great philosophers in life such as Descartes, Sartre, Camus etc and it appears just recently so has Cortese whose philosophy appears to be 'I don't think, therefore I am not'.

If there is any mileage in this suggestion then I would like to know how it will be funded as I doubt Mr Liebherr will risk his own millions which means more collateralised debt no doubt. We have a great stadium but appear to have learned nothing from building it and someone needs to stand up to Mr Cortese and give him a history lesson.

Oh the irony, the "man" with 3,364 posts compared to my 860, lectures me about having a life ...

 

Are you really that lacking in self awareness? You lecture GM about keeping it Saints related after going rapidly off topic to turn a thread about ex pats into yet another non Saints related moany, droney anti Le Tissier rant...

 

Actually I'd put money on you not being that smart and totally oblivious of how retarded you come across sometimes...

 

 

 

I laughed so much I let a little bit of wee out...

Blimey, Daren you really didn't 'get' my post did you. I thought you were a bit smarter than that but clearly some things do indeed pass you buy. Best keep me on ignore and not respond or ask Block 5 or Diben Purlieu Saint for an explanation as they obviously 'got it'.

I find it a bit patronising to have to explain what I thought would have been clear to most so will refrain from doing just that. Pip pip, I'm off to rub oil on my Mum's hamstring - not nice but in the absence of donations.....seems long standing Sainst Fans aren't as worthy as long gone ex-Saints.

Mr C I do hope that yur reg user status is temporary.

I don't know at the moment Hamster tbh. My annual renewal came up and it coincided with some other events that made me consider should I curtail my online activities for a while. As you know this place can eat time like only serious gaming geeks can understand and a limit of 3 posts a day seemed just the ticket although the inability to start a thread or send a pm are big drawbacks.

I also have an aversion to Paypal and I don't care how safe they say it is but IMO any payment system linked into your email address is a poor one and especially one with an annual renewal. Doesn't appear to be an option to renew by online payment from my bank as I have used in the past so I let it lapse.

Ironically still probably logging on and spending a lot of time reading the threads but obviously restricted in making more comments which some would say is a blessing for us all but then issues build up and fester into a crescendo of pent up bile as i watch the 24 hour clock count down to my next posting date. Failing that i could always open a few more user ids (Joke mods) Not joke mods but to say that was me making a joke btw mods.

Other then that things are more Rotary than Rolex but ticking along nonetheless. I enjoyed the river boat thread but when you spoke about firing up the boiler I couldn't help thinking that was a bit derogatory.

Britain really is a sh*t country these days but what do you expect with a gutless socialist government.

Family Tax Credit - whats all that about? Tax the people who can't afford to pay tax and then get them to write a novel explaining why they can't afford to pay their tax although it should be obvious. Then those who collect the tax arrange to pay it back but in the meantime the families have become destitute!

Why are benefits like ICB for example not means tested? Many people can afford these days to pay for some kind of income or mortgage insurance and may be lucky enough to have other revenus streams such as income from rent. Why should they be paid ICB over a person on lower income who could not afford insurance?

The Government is talking about pay rise freezes for civil servants when frankly they could change the benefits system to be more equitable and less bureaucratic and lay off thousands of dusty and ill-motivated pen pushers in dusty offices. Alternatively, lets pay people to collect taxes and then pay it back to them instead of issuing higher tax codes in the first place or is that me being simple or overly pragmatic?

The trouble is they can't change the systems because the system is such a behemoth that all they can do is tinker with its extremities IMO.

Master B I can empathise with your situation to a degree but I would sincerely suggest that you channel your anger away from the race angle. Some people only perceive that this country looks after other ethnic groups more tham white British citizens because that is the picture some newspapers in this country like the Mail and Express would like us to believe. Bottom line for every white male such as yourself their will be equally frustrating tales from a British male of Asian descent. You are both a victim of the system and not favouritism bourne out of some misguided belief that the benefits agencies are scared to turn down applications from ethnic minorities but happy to shaft those of a White British background.

In any event it sounds like you are having a very difficult time and I admire how you are approaching the task of finding a job and coping with your grief. It can't be easy and perhaps it may help to have a chat with your GP about what you are going through. Anger, frustration and grief can be a combustible and destructive mixture of emotions and it may help to talk it through with someone. (I hope you don't find this advice patronising as that was far from my intentions)

Keep it Saints related, no one is interested in I hate Matt Le Tissier/my personal issues sh1te

Daren, do you find that sometimes things in life seem to pass you by?

Oh come on NC, get with the party FFS.

 

Enjoy it, yes it's generally known as a 'tinpot' trophy in some quarters, but when it comes down to it, we'll be showing up a lot of supposedly 'bigger' clubs - 44k cannot be sniffed at, JPT or ZDS or any other cup.

 

We beat Norwich and Charlton...!![/QUOTE]

 

Agreed and those fans of their's I spoke to or know were more relieved than disappointed. Sooner had been going to Wembley for a play off place and the cups have been an unnecessary distraction in particular this worthless piece of junk. Pardew's focus was wrong IMO.

Saints taking 44,000 tickets, Carlisle 22,000

 

Will the remainder either be lost to segregation or to the Wembley debenture holders?

 

If so I would envisage a fair proportion of the debenture tickets being occupied by Saints fans.

 

I know of at least 12 people who are going to sit in the 'posh seats' as corporate guests so our 44,000 could be supplemented by the prawn sandwich brigade

Prawn Sandwiches? Isn't that so 20th C?

Surely it's the Sushi and Skinny Latte brigade these days brandishing their loyalty cards for a little stamping. My guess is the debenture seats will be 'sold' or empty as not many holders will want to go and watch such an important and major game.

I'm going but am I alone in being ever so slightly embarrassed about going to such a worthless piece of junk and the over the top hype many are giving it. Who have we beaten of any note??? To think we could have concentrated on the league and sent out a reserve team for some much needed first team practice.

I hadn't read this thread for a while but I have just caught up with it all.

 

I have to wonder if perhaps 19C has managed to hack GM's log in details?

Why? Have I missed the bit where GM refers to Taking Le Tiss as one of the all time great sporting biographies? Or perhaps he mentioned what an absolute legend MLT is and how his example of hard work and professional attitude is an inspiration to us all?

I guess I can kick this thread into touch then for all the right reasons?

BTW I do think GM has a point that can be fairly aimed at a vocal and self-important minority. Lets face it, it's a forum first and foremost to discuss Saints not an ex-pats blog, and it would be pretty boring if every poster started off by giving us a weather report or what their plans for the day/evening are.

I will be leaving shortly to pick my Mum up from Bingo. This is not normally necessary but she has pulled a hamstring of all things and can't drive. Still saves buying a Mothers Day Gift. Went shopping today and the wind was biting so as the cold weather is set to continue I decided tomorrow I shall try Oatso Simple for the first time, to help set me up for another day in the fast lane. My Mum is an avid Saints fan so any donations towards her physio bills will be greatly appreciated as she does not want to raid her generous annunities and I need to protect my inheritance. She can even tell you the date and time of the kick off for Saints next cup final appearance and is a regular caller to Radio Solent although she doesn't need to wake up at 6.30am to tune in for Saturday commentaries or drive to Hampshire to the first layby in which she can get a reception.

Keep it Saints related, no one is interested in Faceblogmybookspace sh1te.

The article states it was to promote Nationwide Building Society who are a major sponsor of the England Team. There was also a picture of the T-Shirt that the article is giving publicity to.

 

Minor detail so shouldn't stand in the way of a dig at MLT or his book

Quite right.

Is that the Nationwide like most other financial institutions who are still ripping off the Great British public IMO with mortgage rates between 3.8 - 4.7 % APR over base for FTB's even with a more than healthy 20% deposit?

Not a bad margin over 0.5% base rate is it compared to mortgage rates pre -crash? You're an intelligent man though Phil so you will know it's all about the rates banks lend to each other and will know 3 month LIBOR has been arround 0.6 -0.7 % and even 1 year Libor is at only 0.8%.

Couple that with I suspect some less than satisfcatory rates for their savers it's grand to see the Nationwide can afford to be a major sponsor of the World Cup for England. I guess potentially paying some notable ex international to promote their campaign is money well spent instead of shaving off a few percentage points off their over inflated mortgage rates and improve their customers standard of living.

Taking Le Tiss if you ask me.

In the Mirror........

 

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/blogs/football-banter/Why-does-Matt-Le-Tissier-think-Arsene-Wenger-is-the-biggest-berk-in-football-The-former-Southampton-and-England-star-faces-The-Plugger-s-20-questions-article344069.html

LOL - I wonder if he got paid for this? If it was to promote his book you learned more about his attitude in those 20 questions without the need to pick up his actual book that for it's content it is somewhat overpriced even if you can get it with a 7O% discount in my significantly less than professional literay opinion.

Still , what a legend the man is and we appear to have something in common in that neither of us actually hate anyone in football - even Portsmouth. That's right fellow Saints fans MLT doesn't appear to even dislike Portsmouth, what an absolute legend.

Taking Le Tiss, Fat Lazy ba5tard5, too laid back for superstitions, 10 minute rest on the medical bench before a game...statements that makes you think of the player he could have been if he had an attitude to compliment his undoubted skill.

We did learn than Beattie was quicker by 10 sec over 100m than Le Tiss and I would venture our club president at the time would have been 10 secs quicker than Le Tiss.

All very self deprecating what a guy stuff don't you think? However, hardly the spirit of a true legend and of the type we need in the game today. I prefer my legends not to have to confuse self-deprecating with self-parody as it insults the memory of the fans who supported them and not to mention it undermines their actual achievements which in MLT's case isn't as near as much as they should have been. IMO with his new found media 'style' it's not difficult to understand why he has little to show for his career in retrospect.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and remove the hook and finish off this morsel of bait.

I am a happy clapper or am I?

When you don’t agree with certain posters on here this is what you get called, what it actually normally means is they don’t have a valid argument to your opinion.

These negative posters criticise & use the weakest excuses, & go from game to game ALWAYS finding SOMETHING to moan, whinge criticise about.

It is ALMOST as if the change in status we have had in the year FRUSTRATES them more than pleases them. Why?

Am I a happy clapper though? Do I appreciate the good times & good feelings are on the way back? Yes I do. Do I feel we are lucky to be where we are now? Yes! But that doesn’t make me want the club to do better, it also doesn’t mean when we lose that I don’t s get angry & frustrated scream at team / manager / chairman lol .. BUT I CAN keep things in perspective .

Should we of chased for Playoff’s this season? Yes too right we should.

Is missing out disappointing & upsetting hell yes!!

Is it a disaster? NO

Has AP failed as a manager? NO

Have the “team let us down? NO far from it, I have had some of the greatest moments at saints games for years this year love being at the ground there is a buzz around the club, eager fans looking forward to kick off . It’s a great feeling.

 

The argument about negativity/ happy clappers drives me nuts to be frank. WHY do certain posters believe football is so one dimensional? Because apparently you can’t saviour or enjoy what we have & WANT success or improvement at the same time. IF we break down the arguments you would believe that Man utd/ Chelsea/Arsenal never lose OR draw!& deffo never concede “soft” goals”. Football if their opinion is to be believed would be very boring to watch because those that spent MORE would never lose? & defiantly never draw! & Sky the BBC & ITV & ESPN wouldn’t pay MILLIONS for the rights to show it!

Apparently having NO preseason of any use is not a relevant argument to the fact we are so far behind still playing catch up. So next season shall we give the players a break & tell em to report back on the opening day of season? Don’t be ridiculous of course it had an impact BUT we did spend but we bought players, not time not points not extra games. Confidence & belief WAS missing at season start, is it there now? I think so! Where is the winning mentality.. This isn’t about winning the games, this is actually about thinking believing wanting & desiring the win .. sometimes it just doesn’t happen. But this too I believe is there now.

Some fans fork out to away games as well as home games or just go to away games, they have the longest of trips, sing their hearts out & do us really proud ( have heard them) they then of course have the horrid deflated journey back after the draws.( or dreaded defeats ) Some often then post their views on game. I personally like these ( not something I could even begin to do) So thanks for these. When these posts then get hijacked with more whinging & often slating of the views of attendees .. how arrogant! How rude . how pathetic!!

When in the middle of the good run of form we had all be it briefly, they bleated on about fact we conceded a rubbish ( easy goal) this is before the highlights before analysis & based on what? NOTHING it’s just that they WANT to whinge we have all even seen the moaning start 7 mins into a game on here .

I do NOT object to people who criticise the team when they play crap! I don’t mind people differing opinion to anything to be honest. The problem I have ( and others clearly) is when certain posters jump on the team/the manager/the travelling fans opinions/ but don’t back it up when things DO go right! Or worse still they lambast everything as a NEW team we are starting to achieve & haven’t ever actually seen them!! & then when you point this out they use the oh so we can’t have an opinion if we do go ( oh pleaseeeeeeeeeee grow up) of course you can but do you really need & want to nag nag nag nag nag & the real sadness is you don’t ever seem happy when we have a great win!!

 

Flame away .. but that’s how I feel!

An excellent post and although whilst reading it I didn't agree with everything that was being said or at least the way in which it was trying to be said, the sentiment of the message was very clear and I agree 100% with it.

 

As to your point about me questioning our strength of squad then yes I am. I dont believe it is that strong once you get past the first 15 or 16 that AP normally picks from. With James out injured, and now Holmes again as well the choice of who plays through the middle if Hammond or Morgan are not availiable becomes limited. He will play Wotton but who else ? Doesn't seem to rate Simon Gillett very much so you would have to move Puncheon back into the middle and go with Antonio. Puncheon through the middle seemed not to work at Wycombe according to those who went. We may have the squad numbers but out of the 40 odd players listed on the matchday programme every week then I defy you to get past 20 and still retain any real quality.

 

QUOTE]

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement and IMO it will be our inability to field a team to cope with the circumstances of each match that will ultimately result in our failure to reach the play offs.

 

That is why I found Coretese's comments pre the Norwich game ill founded as clearly Pardew is still building a squad to win promotion and the one we have isn't ready to do that except for our defence. You can't sell what people don't want to but so hopefully the inherent deficiencies can be released as contracts expire and the obvious gaps many of us have identified will be filled so that next season there are no excuses.

 

I agree with you that the best parts of a 'sticky' pitch are on the wing but the challenge is getting our wingers (especially Lallana) to play out there and stop cutting in. Ironically for his detractors the one player who perhaps does use the wing to occassional good effect is Waigo but with his ability to often get the ball stuck under his feet at SMS or run into cul-de-sacs what will happen even on the wings of a poor pitch? Hence my suggestion to play Wotton and at least we can have a chance of controlling centre midfield someting we failed to do at Wycombe. Play Wotton , Hammond and Schneiderlin in a 4 5 1 and hopefully force our wingers on to the wing which means dropping Barnard or Lambert and playing Waigo or Lallana and Puncheon wide or play 4 3 3 . Our full backs should be capable of playing more like wing backs and getting forward and Wotton can provide cover when they do. The issue in a 4 3 3 is like you say who do we play up front with the other two and again given squad restrictions you have to play Waigo but run the risk of taking him off early if his 'wizardry' gets stuck.

 

I read Pardew's comments with some interest on the Echo website and as usual he was very erudite but I would take issue with the following comment:

 

“I expect it to be a sticky surface and we’re going to have to try and play as near as possible to our game on that surface, whatever it is.

 

Now I may be wrong but common sense tells me if you know the conditions of the pitch are going to be a problem, trying to do something that probably won't work, i.e trying to play as near as possible to our game, then play another game plan. Trouble is we can't as we don't have the quality of the resources required to meet the different demands of this league.

 

So I agree my suggestions can be easily described as flawed or ill-considered but they are just off the cuff suggestions to be honest to promote some conversation. However, is my logic anymore flawed than suggesting we play the same 11 and trying to play our game as best we can knowing that it has failed on other occassions when the tide of confidence has been equally as high?

 

Within that 40 strong squad Pardew must have some alternative solutions that are not immediately obvious to you and I and Gillett should be one but like you say is out of favour and therefore his confidence for a game like this will be low especially as Pardew seemingly believes he cannot determine a player's attitude. Sounds like some of those under utilised players are on their own with regarding confidence building and positive attitude but thats another argument for another day or hopefully not.

 

Your apology wasn't necessary as I wasn't offended just that exaggeration can somethimes get in the way of a potentially interesting discussion as it stops people from posting their thoughts for fear have any merit in their comments or suggestions completely ignored and shredded. He who shouts loudest and all that. You should know by now that as long as things don't get personal with unproven statements or innuendo then I don't get offended that easy.

Seen it mentioned a couple of times in this thread about Antonio being taken off at Wycombe, with the intimation being that he couldn't handle the bad pitch.

 

The way I saw it, the reason Antonio was taken off was not because of his own performance, but because it just wasn't working with Puncheon in central midfield. And rather than replace Puncheon with Wotton, Pards decided to shift Puncheon out to the wing, and that obviously meant Antonio had to go.

That may well be the case but I wasn't at the game, having to be content with the Merrington musings which are not always an accurate reflection. The opinion I got was Antonio was not involved and struggling but if you were there then I would be happy to take your word.

It's a worry though that the common denominator for below par performances away from home is the inability to field our first choice central midfield pairing and that Puncheon is unlikely to fulfill that role should the need occur in accordance with your observation.

There are two reasons why we won't make the play offs IMO and it's nothing to do with bad pitches and poor teams and their spoiling tactics.

1) Pardew's intent to go for glory in the cup competitions.

2) The club's inability to sign a recognised and credible Central Midfielder.

I know we are all looking forward to a Wembley final but I would trade it in without blinking to be 4pts off 6th instead of 4pts off the false summit of 9th.

Well to be honest I think your observation is totally flawed. For one you dont know what sort of pitches Puncheon is used to playing on, he may not get "mud bound" like some apparently do.

When Morgan was out injured at Wycombe AP bought in Antonio who went off after 37 minutes, it wasnt an injury, so he obviously wasn't effective. Add to that you want a player you admit not knowing much about to play right midfield ? ummm.

 

Players who are "struggling" on anything that does not resemble a crown green bowls surface should not be taken out of such games, they need to learn how to play on these surfaces. Its not American Football where you have certain players only capable of playing certain moves.

 

The problem is that if we keep hearing about these bad pitches then the players will get a mental block about playing anywhere that isnt ideal, they will then be beaten before they step off the coach.

 

They need to adapt to these surfaces, AP has as good as admitted it. It is one of the last bits of the jigsaw that needs putting into place to ensure that this club gets promoted next season at the latest.

 

Chopping and changing the side during the Cup runs was after all the reason given for our dropping off the pace in the League. Introducing that policy again for tricky pitches would IMHO be folly.

Totally flawed, or just flawed? We could have a reasonable debate here BS but not if you are prone to exaggeration. The example I gave was given without knowledge as I said of that players ability to play out of position as many do. We could even convert to a 4-3-3 and throw in Wotton with Schnederlin and Hammond in midfield and play one of a few options to play alongside Lambert and Barnard.

Looking at some of our less decent results they tend to be when Hammond and Schneiderlin are not both present. Schneiderlin being out at Wycombe was underestimated by Pardew in hindsight and equally Hammond being out and Schneiderlin on the bench didn't help at Brentford.

I think a manager's ability to know the strengths of his individual players and field a side according to the conditions and the opposition is key. Simply keeping a winning side is not always possible or logical and surprising and enjoyable as Tuesday night was it is surely not beyond the realms of possibility that Tranmere would have done their homework on us and snuff out our expectations and worse any undue over-confidence in the side regardless of what Pardew will be telling them.

The fact Antonio was substituted at Wycombe for tactical reasons goes to prove my point in choosing horses for courses and IMO in a squad as large as ours we should be able to identify obvious alternatives to not playing Lallana and Waigo for example. Is it my fault I can make a reasonable suggestion but can't readily identify a solution without getting the usual over the top response? Perhaps, you are suggesting that we don't have the great squad and strength in depth that everyone seems to allude to?

I agree with you regards Puncheon and by all accounts he was our best player at Wycombe but remember I did say maybe he could be rested and primed for the Leeds and Swndon home games that will both be proverbial 6 pointers especially the latter.

I am juut making suggestions and surprised my logic is 'totally flawed'. Knowing we have a problem playing clubs on bad pitches more intent to spoil our own game plan than play their own is it not totally illogical to not try something different to overcome the problem? What that difference is, is open to debate and given we are not going to Charlton, Norwich, Leeds etc on Saturday and therefore probably playing on a pitch more primed for a ploughing contest than billiards, it's a debate worth having.

We don't use the wings so beat them through the middle with our 3 strongests midfielders and ensure the game is over by half time by playing 3 up front. More flawed logic? Maybe but playing the same 11 or formation is unlikely to work if the pitch is poor and Tranmere play to spoil and take a draw.

Who are you bringing into the side to replace Lallana and Puncheon ?

BS, the same players we would bring in if these two get injured from playing uncompromising teams packed with poor players intent on winning the ball at all cost on poor pitches. We have a big squad or have we indentified another reason why are playoff hopes are at best fragile unless we can play all our games on essentially what were premier league grounds a few years ago.

I don't know much about Otsemobor but could he play at RM and bring in Thomas at RB for these types of games? Pardew I'm sure has the answer as I would rather win 'ugly' than win playing the beautiful game and risk injury to some our stars that make us a joy to watch at home at the moment.

Bottom line is I don't know but neither is it my problem it's just an observation.