syd_barrett_saint

Velez Sarsfield, although the fact that they have blue in their kit still bothers me a little. And they could never rival my love for Saints.

They are not one of the "big" clubs in Argentina (i.e. Boca, River, Independiente, Racing), but certainly in the top 10, and are a "family/community club". Have done quite well the last few years, usually around the top 5.

FWIW, i'd start with Oxo up front again. MK are on about the same level as B'muff, and the lad can only improve with first team football.

 

------------------Davis-----------------

Butterfield----Fonte----Martin----Harding

Puncheon---Morgan----Deano-----Lallana

---------------Oxo----Lambert----------

 

Subs: Bart, Jaidi, Wotton, Dickson, Mills, Connolly, Barnard

Oxo up front AGAIN? When did he play up front before? Unless I'm mistaken, Oxo was on the right wing against Bournemouth, with Puncheon playing up with Barnard.

I would like to see Oxo tried up front with Lambert though - I think his pace to get onto Rickie's flick-ons etc could work well.

Also, I predicted 2-1 Saints vs Bournemouth, and only got given 5 points. Shouldn't that be 6, with the extra point for correctly guessing the number of goals Saints scored?

And we're already 9 points better off than we were at this stage last season!

I'm going :-) Staying with my brother in Streatham, so it's a short train journey from there.

Looking forward to it, especially now it seems the 1st team will be playing.

Also going to the Barnet game on Tuesday, but drinking with Barnet fans beforehand as I'm meeting up with a mate who's supports them that day.

(By the way - I paid the 5 quid to renew my membership on Saintsweb, but I have been downgraded to a Registered User all the same :-/ Sent Saintsweb an email on Monday but no reply yet. Any idea what I should do to be put back to a Full Member again?)

I clearly did not, chrisobee. I said:

"Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then."

At no point did I say that ALL 13/14 year olds are not football players. It has nothing to do with age. If you misinterpreted what I said, then sorry.

You can do something instinctively and still know that you will be punished for it. They aren't mutually exclusive!

And as I said, if you watched the rest of the game as a neutral, you would have seen that on the whole, justice WAS done.

What's it got to do with racism, though? A lot of mixed-up thought processes going on here....

I have the feeling you and I pretty much stand alone on this

I would want my kids to have fun, and to win, within the rules.

Suarez did all of that last night (he hand-balled, knowing the rules would see him sent off and a penalty given, and in doing so, helped his team to win, within the rules - no rules were broken, because Suarez and his team were punished within them. Now if you want to see the rules changed to stop Suarez doing what he did, that is another matter entirely)

Yep.

 

Apparently, FIFA dont know their own rule book, according to some on here.

 

About a month ago, my eldest got a right b*ll*cking from his trainer across the pitch when he laughed out loud at the opposite team fluffing a peno. Last night, Suarez pretended to cry as he trudged off the pitch, then laughed hysterically when he saw the miss.

 

He's a complete w*nker.

I think you'll find that Suarez was probably upset at having been sent off AND the prospect of Ghana scoring the penalty and sending Uruguay out of the World Cup. They missed the penalty, so like the rest of the Uruguayan players, he was then happy (and, in my view, on the balance of the game/decisions, justice WAS done). Is that hard to understand?

No, I'll concentrate on keeping things in perspective, not ignoring the opposite viewpoint but merely disagreeing with it but respecting it nonetheless. Sadly other people chose to adopt a blinkered and seemingly provocative approach though that is no more than I would expect that on here. In the unlikely event you've taken the time to read through this thread you'll know my feelings on the subject, you'll also know I have stated until I'm blue in the face I don't expect everyone to agree. But if you contradict yourself by stating that age has nothing to do with it but follow that by stating a 13/14 year old is not a a real football player which is blatantly absurd ( I assume you just made that up ?) then I'm afraid it is really hard to take your argument seriously.

If you re-read my posts, you will see that I did not contradict myself.

Someone is probably going to come back at me now and say that breaking any rule is cheating (which is so obvious that I thought I should say it first!)

In my opinion, cheating is breaking the rules and trying to get away with it without being punished. Like with Maradona and Henry.

Breaking a rule and being punished for it with a freekick, card, ban etc is part of the game. If that is cheating, then all players are cheats.

It's even more absurd, how does your age determine if you are a "real player" or not ? Which rule precisely states that handling on the line is not cheating and is acceptable ?

I have stated several times that I'm able to see both sides of this argument, sadly other people can't. More fool them.

Is fouling someone deliberately in the centre circle, knowing you will give away a free kick, cheating?

I would say no.

It is the same with the Suarez situation. Against the rules of the game, so punished according to those rules. No cheating involved.

And I never said that age had anything to do with it. I just said he was not a real football player. But feel free to concentrate on that, and ignore the fact that Suarez just broke a rule and was punished accordingly, plus that Suarez and Uruguay had already been subject to injustices in the same match.

What an absurd argument, a 13 year old is perfectly able to be a football player which he was. As I have stated now about 20 times no fair minded player would handle the ball. We are not discussing Harry Kewell ( I didn't see it anyway) but based on your comments my reaction would be exactly the same.

It's not absurd at all. Real footballers want to win, and do so within the rules. Suarez knew the rules, and the punishment for what he did, so it was not cheating.

In fact, it was justice for Uruguay who had been denied a cast-iron penalty in the first half of extra time, and then had to face the free kick that led to Suarez's save in the last seconds because the ref gave Ghana the free kick when one of their players tripped over himself.

Had Ghana scored and won the game from that set play, it would have been a real injustice.

Suarez did what he had to do in the situation, and got his punishment for it.

Shearer and Hansen said the same, I beg to differ and that also is a shameful thing to say. I don't pay my licence fee to listen to overpaid pundits condoning cheating and that is absolutely what it was. When I've seen a 13/14 year old schoolboy standing on the line in the same situation and NOT handle the ball and in reply to why he didn't respond " Because it would have been cheating " then my mind boggles at what seems to have become acceptable not only in football but in most walks of life. Learn from your elders ? Clearly not.

Right... he was 13/14 year old schoolboy, NOT a football player, then.

I would have done the same as Suarez, probably without thinking, and ALMOST any football player in the world would do the same.

It was a handball, for which a penalty, red card and ban was given. End of story. Where is the outrage over Harry Kewell's exact same offence in this WC???

Why is it an arbitrary change in established punishment if there is a rule that bans can be extended for unsporting conduct ?

 

FIFA have to extend it; with the way Suarez and Uruguay are boasting, it sends out the wrong message if they have the power and dont do it.

This would be a terrible decision, changing the rules just because it was against Ghana in Africa.

I would liken it to the Football League bending their own rules to make sure Saints got -10 points.

PS - It wasn't unsporting conduct. It was a split second, automatic reaction by Suarez. Any player would have done the same, and Suarez has already been punished enough with the red card, penalty and ban from the semis.

Once again, everyone seems to have missed the fact that the free kick given to Ghana that directly led to Suarez having to save on the line SHOULD NOT have been a free kick.

Also, Uruguay were denied a cast-iron penalty for an obvious foul on Abreu in the first half of extra time.

Justice was done, in my eyes. And if Suarez is banned for more than one game, it'll only be because he had the misfortune to do this against Ghana, in Africa.

I hope FIFA ban Suarez for more than 1 game so his WC is over, and that Holland bury Uruguay.

 

Ghana were the much better team, played some lovely stuff that would make England blush over posession, fight and ball control, and were totally f**king robbed.

I thought Uruguay were the better team - Ghana only played well in patches. And the free kick for Ghana that led to the penalty was NEVER a free-kick, so in the end justice was done.

Two poor sides big on reputation small on actual talent.

Kaka, Robinho, Maicon and Luis Fabiano have no talent?

Crsitiano Ronaldo, Carvalho, Coentrao and Meireles have no talent?

Some amazing players on both teams - the only reason it was such a bore draw was that both teams knew they'd get through the the next round, but had no idea at that stage if finishing 1st or 2nd would be better in terms of the draw.

Do Germany hate us as much as we hate them? How do we also know Argentina hate us?

I can confirm that Argentines do hate the English, when it comes to football and the Falkland Islands.

However, they love English music, comedy, films etc...

At least you could hold your head up for a defeat to Brasil!

Exactly my thinking. Although it will still be really disappointing after we've beaten Germany, Argentina and Spain on the route to the final!

Considering I live most of the year in Argentina, if I had to choose who we go out to, it would of course be Germany. But it's all academic really, because we're going to lose to Brazil in the final :-/

Anyone who thinks Argentina have a chance is completely mad. Great players, but possibly the worst "manager" in the tournament, and Messi just does not turn up when playing for Argentina (mainly because Maradona doesn't play a system to suit him). Also, 4 centre backs and Veron in midfield???

I think one out of Brazil, Spain, England or Italy will win the tournament (in that order of probability).

Top scorer will be Luis Fabiano, Villa or Rooney.

Surprise of the tournament will be Chile or Paraguay - would definitely have gone for the latter if their best player hadn't been shot in the head!!! Both should get further than Argentina in the competition (who I think are quite likely to go out in the group stage, with Nigeria and Greece qualifying ahead of them... although actually, I'd LOVE to see Argentina go through and then lose to Uruguay in the next round!).

Group A- S.Africa, Mexico, Uruguay and France

Group B- Argentina, Nigeria, S.Korea, Greece

Group C- England, USA, Algeria, Slovenia

Group D- Germany, Australia, Serbia, Ghana

Group E- Holland, Denmark, Japan, Cameroon

Group F- Italy, Paraguay, N.Zealand, Slovakia

Group G- Brazil, N.Korea, I.Coast, Portugal (G.O.D?)

Group H- Spain, Switzerland, Honduras, Chile

My predictions. Big "shock" will be Argentina to go out in the 1st round with just 1 point (draw against S.Korea). They were absolutely TERRIBLE in qualifying. Chile and Paraguay will get through, both are better teams than Argentina by far at the moment...

FRANCE AND MEXICO

NIGERIA AND GREECE

ENGLAND AND USA

GERMANY AND GHANA

HOLLAND AND DENMARK

ITALY AND PARAGUAY

BRAZIL AND IVORY COAST

SPAIN AND CHILE

Brazil, England or Spain will win the whole thing. Hope it's England, if not, then Brazil.

Football itself? Shut up you berk. It's one decision ffs. Football has not gone wrong yet again at all. The goal should be allowed to stand because the ref decided at the time there was nothing wrong with it. Yes there was, and yes we know about it now and yes video technology or an extra ref behind the goal would have sorted it but everyone knew the rules before this game, everyone knew that there would be no technology to help them, there would be no extra ref behind the goal. If you are calling for the game to be continued on from that point again then why are you not calling it for basically every other game that Ireland played in this campaign where I can probably find you example after example of somebody cheating and it affecting the match. Not just every game Ireland played but every game that Saints have played this season.

 

It's one game. One decision. Just because it was Ireland in the world cup doesn't mean it should get special treatment.

 

Keane made a fantastic point about the Georgia game and a penalty decision that should never have been given. So what if he has a personal agenda?

 

Every game has decisions that go your way or that don't. Thats football. All it is is one decision that in fairness to the ref he couldn't have called correctly from his position. As Keane said, get over it.

 

Its something for Fifa to look upon, however football games are full of cheating, every single game people cheat. It's just another game, just another decision. It's the way football has always been and we have the same boring talk after every BIG game decision.

 

How you can argue the point about it being anyone other than Ireland we wouldn't care is beyond me. If Keane had scored his chances and Doyle had taken his in the game, we wouldn't be talking about this Henry incident at all.

 

The over reaction is laughable.

Your over reaction to the "over reaction" is laughable ;-)

Its a factual point though. Seriously, who would really give a hoot?

 

The over reaction is laughable amongst the media and this country.

It's not about whether you feel sorry for the Irish, or care about their fate. It's about blatant cheating being allowed to go unchecked by FIFA, and surprise, surprise, the decision going in favor of the bigger, more marketable team (the same happened here in Argentina here in South America - they did not deserve to qualify, but referees helped them out with important, dubious decisions going in their favor in the last few matches when it looked like they might not get to the World Cup.)

Oh, and it's also about hating the frogs. Didn't they teach you to do that at school? ;-)

PS - It isn't an over-reaction solely by the English/British media either. This is a HUGE news story here in Argentina. Lots of people are feeling really sorry for the Irish (though somehow missing the irony of the Maradona goal back in 1986!)