Orange
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Posts
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Posts posted by Orange
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It really is banana republic style political policing. Nevertheless, I am sure there will be plenty of boot lickers on this thread who delight in seeing peaceful protesters being cuffed and thrown in the back of police vans.
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On 23/11/2020 at 19:49, Lighthouse said:
If a vaccine kills 10,000 people in Britain, it’s still a hell of a lot safer than actually catching the virus.
Does your logic include under 50s?
Under 1,000 under 50s have died of/with it. A large % of those will have really died of something else but had covid put on their certificate.
Now factor in huge decrease in cancer diagnoses, a small increase in suicides etc. I'd be interested to hear anyone dispute that more under 50s will die indirectly from our reaction than from covid itself.
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Where's this polling? I'd be interested to see it.
YouGov did it for the Times, was discussed on LBC the other day.
Anecdotally, it very much resonates with personal experience and those of family/friends.
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Like when Boris and his pals blocked May's deal?
By not uniting around accepting the *possibility* of a no deal, it's pretty obvious parliament scuppered any chance of a favourable agreement. And May's 'deal' wouldn't have settled anything, it merely gave away 30 billion to tie our hands on future negotiations
How many times have you been called a traitor, told that you are "not British any more", or read that you deserve to be strung up by piano wire ?Been likened to a Nazi (by a practising Uni professor, which tells you something), been spat on, am regularly in-directly called thick/stupid etc in the office. I say in-directly because (as a lot of Brexiteers I know experience) they all presume no one around them would have voted Brexit.
I'm not denying the combative language used by some on the leave side, but polling shows consistently, and in my own experience - that on a personal level, those on the remain side have much higher levels of hatred and intolerance towards Brexiteers than visa versa. I have many mild-mannered family member brexiteers who have lost friends, through the sheer nastiness they have had directed at them over it.
I'm not saying leave is completely innocent in all this polarisation, it's just galling to have remainers playing the poor victims.
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Not at all. By non -thinking I mean they readily lap up simplistic slogans and are very easily manipulated.
I'm not "toxic or hateful" of Brexiteers. I'm not trying to invite violence - something they seem very prepared to resort to anyway. I just totally disagree with the idea that leaving the EU is in any way good for the UK. The referendum was won narrowly (and still a minority of the electorate) because people didn't question the lies of the Leave campaign.
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Ah yes, calling those with different political views 'non thinking' is not insulting at all? Mere simpletons who are manipulated to lap up slogans, as you put it.
And again, in this post you repeat the thing that has added hugely to the 'hate' you simultaneously complain about. Namely that Brexiteers are stupid, thick, racist, manipulated by 'lies', uninformed. I've heard it in my office, among friends, the media - for three years now.
We are sick of the hypocrisy. We have had insults thrown at us for 3 years, whilst politicians have refused to unite around the mandate- and now you all take the moral-high ground because leavers use words like surrender.
If vocal remainers actually care about healing the political climate, then it would be a start to get your own house in order before you start pointing the finger at us.
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Excellent post. Sad that the vast majority simply can't see Johnson's tactics are to portray himself as the people's friend fighting everyone else and encouraging hate of those opponents.
His whole campaign is based on being the man who delivers the referendum result, no matter what the cost to the country and ignoring difficulties. Which of course appeals to your average non-thinking Brexiteer.
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You talk about encouraging hate of opponents, and then in the same post call the average Brexiteer 'non-thinking'
It's like a friend I have on FB. He has spent the last 3 years relentlessly filling my timeline with toxic and hateful rhetoric about Brexit voters, and then yesterday puts up a post crying about Boris's language. The double-standards people like you and him have.
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I also have a ticket if needed !!
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Could I take this one? Presuming Blagdon has sold to original poster.
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It is interesting that those of a far right persuasion seem to play down the level of racial abuse still endemic in this country. Despite high profile footballers coming out and saying that it is still an issue, there are regular reports that this is still a big issue here. This morning I was reading about the problem reported to Leicester FA about children as young as 7 being targeted for racial abuse and the Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic Football Forum has started to collate grassroots experiences from across the country. There have been monkey chants and Islamophobic remarks made towards players at kids games. One team of Asian children were told that they should be "blowing things up, not playing football." One parent offered a kid a banana saying that he should be used to it.
We are used to high profile racism as practiced by the likes of Tommy Robinson. Apparently one of his milkshake episodes was caused by him constantly berating an innocent Asian guy about Asian rape gangs to the extent that the guy got fed up with him and emptied his milkshake over him. This heinous act has since caused the guy to receive death threats on top of the beating that he received from Tommy and his thugs at the time.
Sadly we are used to these things happening on our streets, but when you hear of racist abuse being aimed at young kids it is very clear that there is still a strong racist element in this country. To pretend that we dont have the depth of problem here that they have elsewhere is not only foolish, it is covering up the threat that the far right still poses in the UK.
Not watched the footage have you? Oh dear
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One available on the Saints Away forum
https://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?60894-1-X-Newcastle-Available#.XLgR--hKjIU
Sorted one, thanks though.
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Has anyone got a spare knocking about?
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It will if they realise that they will be quickly caught, brought to justice and spend a long time behind bars. When I was younger you saw plenty of police out and about. Now you rarely see any. More police on the beat. More stop and search. Longer sentences for carrying knives and knife crime. Increasing the chances of being caught and increasing sentencing will do a lot more than employing a "Knife Tzar."
No one seems to be advocating that though. We just get buzz words like education and youth centres.
How about start throwing the book at any one caught carrying.
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After a spare if anyone an help me out.
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Where have I said my opinion is so 'correct'? I think a number of people have been duped, and a number of people have voted from a racist point of view. I also think a number of people have voted that way as they can see the £ signs popping up if they short the companies in our economy (see JRM). The point of an opinion is that it is exactly that - an opinion. You guys are here to prove otherwise, but the two most vocal on here fit into the 2 explanations above.
I hope you also tell those people they're up their own arse, although I doubt keyboard-warriors like yourself have the balls to do that. Also, what do you mean by 'metro elite'?
So you've added conspiratorial financial self-interest to your explanations of people having different views to you. I assume you got that one from being spoon-fed the JRM 'story' from the MSM.
The metro elite is characterised by yourself. Basically demonising those with alternative outlooks in the way you do (racist/brainwashed/greedy self-interest etc). The metro elite (I work with a lot), tend to live in a bubble, so it's easy for them to cook up these theories. The people they do know with different views will rarely make that known, because they can't be bothered with the condescension and viciousness it would likely endure.
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Why does me thinking that others have been duped make me up my own arse? And what do you mean by metro elite?
It makes you up your own arse because you think your opinion is so 'correct', that any one with an alternative one must have been duped/fooled into having that. The only other explanation you'll sometimes entertain is that it all comes down to inherit racial prejudice.
I know lots of people like yourself.
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Well, I think we can all agree that whatever Brexit it is, Brexiteers have been spun a cock and balls story.
You really are so up your own arse you think anyone with a different perspective has been 'duped' or 'fooled', don't you? Epitome of the metro elite.
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That's up to the EU though, not something our Parliament can vote through or not.
They'll hold us to ransom on having a second referendum.
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Which 'media' don't represent the 'fake news' conspiracy ?
It is fake news though.
The Independent said there were 'little over 2,000'. You have to laugh really.
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There were far more than 3000 there, don't believe the propaganda.
And regardless, the only important comparison of numbers is the result of the referendum.
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Some of the figures I've seen quoted by the fake-news media is hilarious. They literally just make stuff up.
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How much have our migration figures fallen then in the last year then? 11k. But that is also 24k up on 2016. So is it really a decline we're seeing, or just a year to year variance?
Here is the difference between the years over the last 10.
2018: -11k
2017: +24k
2016: -84k
2015: +14k
2014: +109k
2013: +32k
2012: -28k
2011: -51k
2010: +23k
Here is the breakdown of EU and Non-EU migrants over the last 10 years as well:
What do those figures show you? I'm really interested to see how you interpret them. Do you also know the percentage of EU migrants that come in that are low-skilled?
However, what confuses me most about your posts, is that you started off by saying we're letting too many people in, and that was the reason for your issue with immigration, but now you're saying that your issue is that we are discriminating massively against non-EU immigrants. So which is it? In addition to this, you seem to have an issue with those caught up in the migrant crisis. Now, can you remind me please, are these migrants EU, or Non-EU?
They are currently non-EU. But given time will be granted EU citizenship, and thus British if we were to stay. The British people saw the Merkel and co's approach to it , and didn't want to be in the hands of these people's agenda, or incompetence.
I'm not sure what I'm meant to interpret. That our government hasn't got a hold on non-EU immigration? Non-EU migration should be higher than EU migration. But you can see from 2011 how we clamped down on non-EU immigration to compensate for the influx from within the EU. Bulgaria/Romania accounting for a lot of that (Farage was mocked for saying that would happen). But i presume you think they were all highly skilled tech entrepreneurs?
And It's not that confusing. I think it's too high to be sustainable in the long term, and would like to see it come down. But contrary to what you like to characterise, like most people I don't want to shut the doors. We just need to have a very selective policy that judges on what someone can bring to the UK, what connections you have (partners etc) and your wealth. A lot of people have a gripe that even someone getting married to a Brit who is non-EU, will have a a long costly process getting a visa, but we have to accept tens of thousands of low-skilled workers from southern and eastern europe.
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But how is leaving the EU going to stop that? Last year we saw a massive fall in the number of migrants from the EU. Do you know what happened? We replaced that with people from non-EU countries as we had to cover the slack.
The situation you are talking about is not going to stop because of Brexit - because the economy and population drives the need for working people. The problem starts at home where we have to replace people unwilling to work in our population, and the massive ageing population, to ensure the economy and basic services keep functioning.
If you think we're going to stop inviting people over here to work, then you are going to be sorely disappointed. The same number of skilled workers are still going to be needed, and because of the poor investment in public services, those people are still going to come from overseas.
What you need to do is deal with the source of the problem, and not with the result. The problem is you've been fooled that where the migrants come in is the source, when in actual fact it is WAY before that.
Yes and our overall migration figures have gone down because of that decline. The point is for as long as we're in the EU we can't do anything about it, other than discriminate massively against non-EU citizens to try and counter-act endless low-skilled EU migration. And with the migrant-crisis, all the millions the EU have welcomed in, will then have EU passports after a while, and then be able to come to the UK. But seems you're on the same page as the EU with regards to long-term population replacement.
Why are you so against us treating everyone across the board equally, on merit and ties to the UK?
Classic remainer too, anyone who has a different point a view to you has been 'fooled', 'duped'...
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Your issue is with over-population, but that is more of a demographic based forecast - you can add a million over 3 years, if the birth rate within the UK is slowing. You can add to the population without putting a strain on public resources, as long as you have the investment and sustainability in the economy, as well as a willing Government, to allow the continued expansion of these resources. However, none of these are a Brexit or EU issue.
You don't get it though, we don't want to cram over a million on to the population every 3 years. We don't want to concrete over our country with new housing, roads and infrastructure services to sustain never-ending population growth.
And I can see why you're pro EU, clearly support the same vision of population replacement. The old 'ageing population guise'.
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Why is it not sustainable? And considering that it's mostly people coming in from outside the EU Brexit ain't gonna change that.
As an aside, I have hardly been on this thread, so not quite sure why everyone is getting so angsty with me? Just asking some questions.
You said I think that shows what you're about then. Hardly 'just asking questions' were you.
And it's sustainable or unsustainable depending on what kind of UK you think is desirable for our future. If you want to live in a concreted-over sprawl of a country, with little identity left of it's own, then f*ck it, why don't we add another couple of million on every 3 years. Fair enough if you're enthusiastic about that, but it's bizarre you can't see why a lot of people aren't.
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So you can't tell me why you don't want immigrants here?
I think that shows what you're about then.
Maybe it just gets f*cking boring trying to reason with people like you, as to why some people don't believe adding a million plus to our population every 3 years is sustainable.
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He won't get any credit for it despite being entirely correct. Clegg should hang his head in shame.
They're the first to mock, deride and take the high ground - but they never put their hands up when they get it wrong.
Coronavirus
in The Lounge
Posted
True, they have now all embraced the 'new normal' it seems. But if you look at London in particular, the people who are going to suffer most are your TFL workers, office security guards/maintenance people, launderettes, cafe/bar workers, cab/uber drivers, hotel staff, airport workers etc.
When you try and make this point to Karen the covid-secure do gooder from Richmond working in her Pjs, they will probably sneer something like 'haha what so the system collapses if we don't buy our Pret and pay our rip off tube fares'.