SaintPete

I happened to notice in the Guardian stats of the season so far that Pelle has had the most shots of any player in the Prem this year. If he can find a bit more accuracy we'll be laughing

Here's a link in case anyone's interested: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/tS_jz4q7ErUGiN0tw44lcSQ/htmlview

I think a bit too much fuss is being made over Pelle's finishing. It was poor yesterday, but it's hardly a case of him missing sitters week in, week out, he's still a good finisher in my book.

I happened to notice in the Guardian stats of the season so far that Pelle has had the most shots of any player in the Prem this year. If he can find a bit more accuracy we'll be laughing

and to add to the misery, Pelle is the only player to have scored in the last four games -and a fifth yellow card (silly)...means he suspended for the Sheff.Utd Cup game.

The Guardian preview to the game today said Schneiderlin is due back from injury on 16th December which suggests he might be able to play on Tuesday. Not that that solves our goalscoring problem!

yup....but they've resulted in none so the performances count for F all.

Maybe. I'm gutted we've got nothing from the games, but at least we're not playing terribly and losing. Our luck should change soon.

...

We are on a terrible run, but we've been completely screwed over by lady luck at the same time. We're not playing great, but not that bad either. The last three performances could just as easily resulted in seven points rather than none.

P.s. I never bought that Lallana England shirt!

I wasn't too far off the mark with the Liverpool predictions in this thread. Should have stayed at Southampton Adam ;-)

I was expecting to see Jay Rod on the bench by now, whats happening hear?

According to the Guardian match preview Rodriguez is due back in January. Also says Gallagher back on 13th December and Ward-Prose back on 21st December.

Very specific.

A lot of people betting on villa tonight according to some tipsters.

I bet on Villa too. £10 at 19/4. As someone else said hopefully I'll look on it as a happiness tax at the end of the game, if not that's £57.50 back. Amazing odds for a team playing at home, even if they are coming up against an in form team!

61-62 please :-)

>>> not been dealt with correctly by those above him, given his loyalty over the years to #saintsfc - so if any move does not happen & >>

These tweets: >>>#saintsfc could/should be more sympathetic toward his stated aim to go to #lfc after years of loyal service to #saintsfc & believes he's >>>

Is there any actual evidence to suggest he has made any such comment? Maybe there is - I don't know. As far as I know that is just idle conjecture from somebodies tweet or post.

I am certain Adam Blackmore is reporting correctly.

Fair enough - I just based my opinion on this from Weston Saint and Adam Blackmore's tweets

So if Lallana was simply telephoning the club to find out what was happening and to speak to them about his future and the board are not returning his calls I would say that has to be totally unacceptable. He is the first team captain and our most valuable player yet he is being ignored. Contract or not this is not how a club who claims openness should act. Are they panicking? It certainly looks that way.

 

I am certain Adam Blackmore is reporting correctly.

 

And for those asking I am told players do not get part of the transfer fee whether they ask for a transfer or not.

I think your judgement is clouded on this. Why does AL need to speak to the board about his future? There was a clear statement saying players wouldn't be sold at least until the new manager is appointed. Liverpool and Lallana bith seem to have their fingers in their ears. The new manager hasn't been appointed yet!

And this rubbish about deserving a move after years of loyal service? When did a big club last come in for AL? As far as I can see the first moment a big club's bid for him he's throwing his toys out of the pram and trying to force the transfer through. This despite being club captain, having signed a five year contract 12 months ago and stating he'd snap your hand off to finish his career at Southampton. He was happy enough to do this on the back of a pretty average first season in the Premiership. One exceptional season and he wants off. Sounds like the complete opposite of a loyal servant to me.

My opinion alone but it would be a great shame if Saints deny a great servant the opportunity of playing at a higher level in the Champions League. It has to be subject to the right price and I can understand Saints making sure they end up with £20M net. He is worth the £27M Liverpool will have to pay.

 

By the way, I am told he does not get a cut in the transfer figure whether he asks to leave or not so his only focus is bettering his football career.

 

As a Saints supporter I desperately want him to stay but I can see his point of view

I know you are somewhat biased, but it is this sense of entitlement that is exactly what's wrong with the modern game. It was only one year ago that AL signed a five year contract and stated ""If someone was to say that I'd end my career playing for Southampton in the Premier League then I'd snap your hand off for it". He was happy to sign this contract on the back of a pretty average first season in the Premier League.

He performs exceptionally well in his second season and now he "deserves" to be playing in the Champions League? If he deserves it so much why doesn't he try and get there with a Southampton team full of international players rather than taking a short cut?

Perhaps he should have a read of the article on the other thread: http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?50524-Spot-on-article#.U4oCaCir_ec

It's a pretty good summary of the modern game and modern footballers and concludes:

"Not to pick on Adam Lallana, but isn’t his attitude symptomatic of the problem? He’s come up through the divisions with Southampton, he’s become a Premier League player, and the club have also given him the platform to win his first England caps and to go to a World Cup. But he still wants more. How sad that a higher wage and a couple of games in Europe can turn his head away from a project that he’s been such an integral part of for so long.

It’s all just starting to feel so futile."

https://mobile.twitter.com/sportingintel/media/grid?idx=0&tid=471286552191336448

 

In case anyone is in any doubt about where Spurs sit in the footballing pyramid, then this table makes for an interesting read.

 

 

 

Now of course, nothing is set in stone and the status quo is always there to be challenged, but a dash of realism is sometimes needed before we launch in to emotive responses.

I just had a look at that table and those figures are massively skewed by the number of times each team is shown on TV.

If you divide those figures by number of games shown you'd see that Spurs "should have" earned an average of £4,975,497 per game while we "should have" earned £4,882,962 per game. This shows that our games were watched on average by more or less the same amount of people as Spurs' games. Admittedly, this could well be down to the fact that in Spurs' games they are the reason people tune in, while in our games the opposition is the main draw. However, all the report really shows is that Tottenham were shown on TV twice as much as we were. There doesn't appear to be rhyme or reason as to why some teams were shown more than others either. Villa were on TV six times more than us, but with an average 20% lower viewing figures per game.

A few people have mentioned it's down to whether Liverpool can meet Saints' valuation of Lallana. Others have said we need to see what the new TV deal does to transfer fees before deciding anything.

A somewhat basic look at the TV deal shows that we'd need way more that Liverpool are offering to compensate the loss of Lallana. Finishing 8th earned us £7.5 million more than finishing 14th (our previous season's finish) would have done. Even finishing three places lower would have been worth nearly £4 million less to us. It's not unreasonable to think we'd have finished 11th rather than 8th without Lallana.

In simplistic terms say we sell Lallana and finish 11th for the next four seasons (the remainder of Lallana's current contract) rather than 8th. That would cost us £14,832,996 in TV prize money alone (without considering any future increases in the TV money). If Lallana stayed and helped us gain three places in the league each season, it'd be just as beneficial to us financially if we let him run down his current contract to leave for free than selling him for £20,000,000 (with Bournemouth's sell on clause) .

Even worse, say we sell Lallana and others and just about survive against relegation each year. Finishing just outside the relegation zone each year would leave us £11 million worse off per season compared to finishing eighth. That soon adds up.

By my maths we shouldn't currently sell Lallana for anything less than £60 million. Match that Liverpool!

I'm sure each team has some pretty clever accountants, but teams that manage to understand the TV figures the quickest could make a killing in the transfer market! It's the perfect time to be buying players, not selling. It would definitely make sense to hold onto the crown jewels for at least another year before selling, especially given the length of their contracts. Transfers fees could suddenly double or triple and all of a sudden we'll find ourselves having to bid £80,000,000 to buy Danny Rose as a replacement for £30,000,000 Luke Shaw.

TV money figures: https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/466572990562725890/photo/1

If we are to let shaw go, i think we should insist on hernandez and money. This would severely soften the blow for me as we would know we were getting a great player in a position we need and not just pocketing or spunking the cash.

How would u guys feel towards hernandez and 10 million for shaw

I would be devastated. I reckon Hernandez was a flash in the pan. Any season that you start by scoring a goal like this:

Whenever I've seen him play recently he can barely control the ball. He played 24 games (admittedly most as sub) in the league last season and scored four goals. He was behind Welbeck in the pecking order. I know I'm biased, but I'd have Jay Rodriguez in the England team ahead of Welbeck. £20,000,000 for a player that's not as good as one of your current strikers seems a lot.

Would much rather we spent £20,000,000 on someone else.

Saints have no reason to sell Lallana. He is under contract so is dependent on the club giving him the opportunity of playing his football at a higher club level.

 

He has been a magnificent and loyal servant to Saints and still loves them to bits. He is very happy here BUT he is 26 and just got into the England side. He needs the next level and will not get it here for a few years at least, if ever.

 

Put yourself in his place. Say double salary, Champions League football etc. Just say he decides to stay and years later reflects. Would he regret the opportunity was missed?

It is a difficult time for the lad, decision wise. The club may have had a bid and may have turned it down indicating a minimum transfer fee knowing that they should not stand in his way for the right fee. If Liverpool then go elsewhere the club win, the supporters win and Adam can look back and say the opportunity never reached a decision stage.

 

For me it is in the hands of the club. They have an equally difficult decision.

 

One part of me desperately wants him to stay but another part says he needs to go to fulfil his undoubted potential at a higher level. I think Adam father hold similar views.

 

Let me again reiterate, I have not discussed this with his father or anyone else close since the last day of the season when there was no confirmation of any interest from Liverpool or anywhere else but a suspicion that something unknown was rumbling behind the scenes.

 

It is my opinion, and mine alone so please do not read anything into it, I am not ITK, that if Liverpool make an offer in comparison to the club valuation and the terms meet Adams aspirations he will move.

Of course there could be regrets about 'opportunities missed'. However, it works both ways. What if he moves to Liverpool (a team that has just got in the Champions League for the first time in five years), they get knocked out of the Champions League at the first hurdle and don't make it back for another five years? Tottenham only managed to qualify for one season. Would it then still be worth giving up captaining your boyhood club?

What if he ends up not playing regularly and so isn't able to progress at the rate he currently is at Southampton? What if he doesn't have the same relationship with the Liverpool fans he has with the Saints fans? Lots of talented young English players have moved to Champions League clubs and found their careers have stagnated.

Saints are a young team, improving year on year, growing up together. Playing for Saints appears to be no hindrance to playing in the England team. He could just as easily have regrets about leaving something that's pretty amazing right now.

I don't know whether this got picked up in any of the transfer threads but did anyone notice this part of the original piece on Cortese? http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27492019

"Manchester United have reportedly made a £27m offer for 18-year-old left-back Shaw, while Liverpool remain in talks over a move for captain Lallana, 26.

 

The Anfield club have also made an enquiry for highly rated central defender Dejan Lovren, while midfielder Morgan Schneiderlin, also 24, has attracted interest from a number of Premier League clubs.

 

However, Southampton are unwilling to sell any of their players."

It's a shame there's no source and it's somewhat contradictory in that "Liverpool remain in talks" and "Southampton are unwilling to sell any of their players" but the second statement is pretty firm without any caveats.

Liverpool have been put in pot 3 for the Champions League. Means they will be in a group with one of Real Madrid, Athletico Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich or Benfica and also one of PSG, Juventus, Dortmund, Schalke, Shakhtar Donetsk or Basel.

Looks like they'll be falling at the first hurdle!

It's not worth moving to Liverpool for six games in the Champions League!

This last sentence of this article in the Guardian is fairly promising:

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/20/luke-shaw-gutted-southampton-sack-academy-coached

The dismissals of Dodd and Williams are unrelated to the future of the manager, Mauricio Pochettino, who is a target for Tottenham Hotspur. Pochettino has one year to run on his Southampton contract and he is open to considering any official approach from Tottenham. But Southampton are working to convince him that their ambitions match his own and there is a confidence at the club that he will stay.

Call me cynic but this smacks of his agent posting a story to make sure the eventual offer from spurs is ****ing massive. The press get these stories from agents not chairman.

Call me an optimist, but maybe he's stalling on signing a new deal / flirting with Tottenham not for his own financial gain, but so that the board will acquiesce to his wishes in order to keep him, guaranteeing that they won't sell our star players this summer while providing a "war chest" to push on for the Champions League :-)

Once he's secured the war chest we should send an offer of £17 million for Sturridge, saying we'd like the deal to be wrapped up before the World Cup.

For that kind of money he better speak bloody English next season.

He's doing a pretty good job as our manager without speaking English in interviews. Isn't it only the Daily Mail who are bothered about this? His English is clearly good enough to get his ideas across to the players. Not sure what benefit we'd get if he conducted his interviews in English.