pap

Broken down, whole life sentences are the next best thing to the death penalty. The UK gov knows this when it is dishing them out, as does the UK public. The ECHR knows this too. Do it properly - show we're a civilised society. Per head of population, these cases are so rare we can afford to do so, and if not, we should ask why not.

If someone is a persistent danger to society, it can be addressed through the parole system. Whitey Grandad; convicted murderers who kill again after release are a consequence of this system not working. Ever wonder why it's not working?

So, assuming this does all go through, can someone tell me what is going to happen in midfield? I know f*ck all about football, remember. * Thread links fine

Sorry mucker, you're in the wrong on this one. Labour were far from perfect. I really hated their Orwellian benefit cheats campaign. It was genuinely sinister. I've added a further post which goes some way to explaining why people believe what they do. Mostly, it's lack of experience, but I'll let you read on before you decide whether I'm talking nonsense.

I'm not saying that personal experience is representative of broader issues. It never can be, but it's really the only tool you've got to process it all. Day to day, we use our personal experience subconsciously all the time, and put a great deal of trust in it. Every man on this forum has conducted numerous "threat assessments" on each and every trip to a kebab emporium in the wee hours of the morning. Every person (hopefully) does this every time they take a vehicle onto the public highways. It's innate, part of our survival mechanism, and it's not our only skill. We apply personal experience to every decision we make in life; it's the lack of personal experience in these broader events which is the problem. In the absence of personal experience, everything is informed from other sources, whether it's friends, friends of friends, but mostly, it's mainstream media. Looking at the brain from the point of view as a retention device, what happens if you have no personal experience of Muslims yet have watched mainstream media? What actually gets filed in your brain under the Muslim department? I'd argue that it's just the stuff you see in mainstream media. The interesting thing about all of this is that at the same time, people have become more individualistic and self-absorbed. Black mirror generation, anyone? That again, is part of the problem. This new-found individualism isn't the gateway to a higher state of being; it's endlessly refreshing a feed of updated celebrity gossip. Give me the Daily Mail of the 1930s over its celebrity-obsessed descendant any day; it was at least discussing multiple political systems.

It's not an all-red kit (unless you change the colour balance in VLC ).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/celtic/10165290/Victor-Wanyama-a-wee-bit-confused-after-Southampton-lodge-new-bid-for-Celtic-midfielder.html Wanyama not on team sheet tonight (soz if posted before).

I was having a chat with my 13 year old daughter on the way to the shops yesterday about the basic tenets of solipsism; the notion that the only thing you can be sure exists is your own mind. Everything else could conceivably be a product of that mind. It was part of a wider conversation about relative life experience, and in this particular instance, how her notions of Liverpool could completely differ from someone else's experience. Though I don't agree with 110_Persaint, he's entitled to his perspective, although personally, I always take "friends of friends" stuff with a bit of salt. It's usually amusing and/or sensational, but it's often embellished or significantly altered in the retelling and sometimes, is complete boll*cks from the start. However, life is relative to the individual. Outside of the information you get from friends, the other obvious source of information we have to go on is the media in all its forms. The media doesn't merely reflect public opinion; it creates it. On wider issues, it's the only thing that does. Relatively speaking, hardly anyone was in Woolwich on the day that the attacks took place, yet the vast majority have an opinion. Those opinions, my own included, were not collated from personal experience. The media made Woolwich into a nationwide event, and the reports in the media were the basis on which most opinions were made. Without the multiplying effect of media, no-one would have an opinion on much outside of their own direct experience. The response to Woolwich, an event that most people had no direct experience of, was staggering. Numerous organs pointing out the barbarism of Islam (in relation to the decapitation), the re-emergence of #racism on Twitter and Facebook. Aren't we British? Didn't we used to be the sort of country to handle things calmly, quietly and without fuss?

Slight correction. Dumb and watched one of the innumerable horror stories about the current pension bill or how we'll all be paying for those lucky baby boomers.

The next obvious question is "why do people believe these things?" Answer is equally obvious. It's what they're told, especially under the Conservatives.

The Lounge has never been purely serious, even though it's supposed to be. Threads tend to be about serious subjects, individual posts often aren't. "Banter" hasn't disappeared; there's just a lot less sh!te in the mix. I took exception to your initial suggestion that people who wanted to discuss political matters should do so on another site. First, there's a huge assumption that people aren't doing that anyway. Speaking for myself, I post elsewhere - but this is probably the main place I post, for one reason really - the cross section. As I've often remarked, there's no entrance exam to be a Saints fan, and no-one gets turned away on the basis of their politics. That for me, is what makes it such an interesting place to post. Interesting that you mark it all down to self-validation, and also implicitly suggest that most posters here aren't up to much in the brain department. How else could these self-validating big boys score their cheap points? Fairly depressing way to look at things, Special K.

I'm not sure I'd share this assessment of the Lounge. Remember that it wasn't so long ago that most of the content was middle-aged men having a go at SaintAndy666. Perhaps you've forgotten all the threads some of our dearly departed (and reconstituted) posters used to share, such as on Gibraltar or Rhodesia, or the innumerable threads on whether something was racist or not, littered with examples of double standards. The Lounge has gotten loads better in that respect. I don't miss threads like that at all, and while I'd agree with you on there being a certain predictability to the Lounge ( almost every EU thread is the same ), it's less predictable because a lot of the usual tropes have fallen by the wayside. Whatever, the Lounge is for serious discussion. Sounds like you think the discussion has gotten too serious, but I do wonder whether those are the words of someone bruised by a few encounters on there. Who do you think should leave so you can have a fair crack at a topic?

Good point, Bazza, but don't constrain yourself to the thinking set.

Some kind of bear adoption scheme is clearly in order. It would be a shame to see the creature plucked from an environment in which it thrives.

I think something is worth paying for if you value it. £5 is not a lot of money these days, particularly spread over 12 months. I pay money for other online services that I use a lot less.

Funny you should mention that. When watching those scenes, I did lol at how unlikely a strategic option having a large, bunched up fleet would be when you have the benefit of space and the ability to travel on any vector! Though I'm no expert of space combat, it surely lends itself to a strategy of encirclement! I think it's purely there to look cool.

What, someone makes a suggestion instead of simply calling you a c*nt ( that's banter, right?! ). The funny thing is that I'm after all the same stuff people are moaning about not having, such as a more lax attitude and the place to be run like a football forum. What's the matter, Eric? Are you depressed because you're in Leigh? I fkn would be

I think the point was made pretty clearly, although I'd suggest dividing your attention between the humour and covering the points. Why would you vote to close a post? Biggest reason I've seen elsewhere is duplication. I don't share your view of the like functionality ; Facebook employ it on a much larger scale and guess what, it isn't a gigantic p!ssing contest to get the most likes.

Starred out word is m i n g e r s. NOT m i n g e - r s. Sort the swear filter out mods. It's not smart enough.

Whitey, I'm shocked, alarmed and mildly inquisitive. When you say "beggars can't and all that stuff", what does that mean, exactly? Does Whitey Grandma exclusively watch shows in which the stars are all *****rs (e.g. EastEnders, c. 1986 on VHS)?

Heh. I've actually seen this already today. Haven't posted about it, but since you mention it, Murray won the US Open on 9/11. Spooky! I like to treat numerology as an interesting coincidence instead of hard evidence, Grey Crab. I'd suggest you follow a similar path.

Have "we" still won Wimbledon if Scotland votes for independence?

There are a couple of issues at play here. First, as you rightly point out, the mods are largely invisible here. In one sense, that's good; because they're not jackbooting on every little point, and much respect to them for not throwing their opinions about, but perhaps they need to. A backseat approach has problems of its own. Nature abhors a vacuum; weirdly enough, that counts double on football forums. People moan about Nick Ilingsworth and the UI in general, but for all the flak that bloke gets (and I really don't agree with him on much), he's still actively participating on that site, still trying to set the agenda. I have a lot of respect for the continued effort, even if I don't agree with the content. Spend any amount of time over there and you quickly realise SaintNick is the main admin, plus you get an idea of his dynamic with other posters. Nick runs that site in a sense that doesn't happen here. I think the other problem might just be technical; being locked into a specific, off-the-shelf forum solution that either doesn't lend itself to development or has no resource available.