Sheff Saint

500k is probably about right I'd have thought

Agree

It's easy to criticise with hindsight but risks had to be taken and it was always possible that mistakes would be made. I agree that things probably could/should have been done differently but we can only speculate and it's in the past now. Also, we nearly lost our place in the CCC last season remember, without Lowe's cost-cutting measures.

It is easy to criticise with hindsight. Trouble is many normal Saints fans, myself included, saw that this path was the wrong one as soon as it was announced. Of course mistakes were going to be made. But in my opinion Lowe has now made to many, to often.

Maybe, just maybe the bank had a say in our cost cutting to the extent that it was.

Maybe. But i doubt it. The bank don;t run the business, they just pull the purse strings. So long as Lowe get's to the figure they've asked, how they get there is of no concern to them. I would have thought.

Too many decisions Lowe has got badly wrong this season.

If you are relegated,,,, There will be a verbal lynching of lord Lowe citing the drastic cost cutting as instigating your fall from grace.

 

So if you manège to avoid the drop,(and your current form plus the games you have left suggest you should) Will Rupert get the credits for the drastic cost cutting measures that kept the wolves from your door, and maintained your fizzy pop statues.:smt017,,,,,me thinks not!

No.

Because Mr Lowe adopted a botched job of a cost cutting policy that nearly cost us our place in the CCC. If Mr Lowe had adopted a rational cost cotting policy we perhaps wouldn't be in this position.

It worries me he doesn't see much difference in the competition between the CCC and League 1. Means we's is well and truly f**ked next season if he's right!

I loved the year we stayed up and Man City went down.

I mean, i didn't love the match, it was horrible. In all the seasons of scrapes that we've had, that season was probably the most tense all the way through the 90 mins. Even more than last season. I may well be wrong but Dave Merrington looked round in the dug out as he had a gasp (as Man City equalised) and stuck my fingers up to say 2-2 (not flicking the V's). He put his thumbs up and turned round. I'm sure it wasn't at me, but i like to think so. Back in the day's of the family centre behind the dug out at the Dell. God that game was rubbish. Wimbledon games always were. I remember Richard Hall having an absolute stinker as well.

Wotte if we stay up, no doubt. Whatever his involvement before hand, he'd deserve credit for turning it around.

And Davies. I thought he was total **** but to be fair, he's had a blinder of a season.

In general i think beating the odds is always great and when the pressure is on it's brilliant. Games like West Brom away last season, Reading this season. They're all fab. When we won at Newcastle 1-0 with MLT scoring, that was amazing.

Specifically i loved Dellhurst. I loved 120 mintues of the the play off game at Pride Park. That was a brilliant match as well, even if the outcome ended up rubbish. Beating Man Utd those three years on the trot. Beating Arsenal at SMS. Beating Arsenal at the Dell in the last game. Perfect things like that just don't happen as a Saints fan!

I agree' date=' but others will say it was NOT paying enough that led to us not attracting better players and thus led to relegation - Lowe's 'wage cap' ..... Can you imagine the potential debt situation now if we had had a 'fan friendly chairman' whn in the prem, having a free for all on wages.... oh that happened at Leeds... we ahve a big debt but the majority of it was investment in the stadium - something that allowed MORE fans to go and support their club, which was no bad thing.[/quote']

 

Don't quote Leeds as a model NOT to follow.

 

Next season we could easily be below Leeds in league position, if not in divisions. Plus, they've challegened for the Prem and European Cup in the last 10 years.

 

We've pretty much won less games then any other football league club in the same timeframe.

 

Sure, Leeds wasn't the way to go but to say our chairman adopted a policy which was better is clearly untrue.

 

Maybe, just maybe, if we'd have signed two or three players on big money rather than 5 or 6 on limited money, maybe then we'd still in the Prem?

Anyone who has missed an open goal or an easy chance when a 1-O win instead of a 0-0 draw would have made all the difference. It's as basic as that.

I blamed the players 100% last time, this time they may only get credited with 90%.

Have the players underperformed this year?

Not especially. They've not been great but i don't think you can label them as underperforming.

We've just played some very poor players at times this season and not utlisied the good players well enough. The likes of Skacel and Euell have been ok when they've played, probably played better than the treatment they've had warrants, to be fair. The likes of Lancashire and Smith are probably doing as well as they can, which is someway short of the required standard in the CCC.

Lowe.

He's CEO and he'd have overseen two relegations. Almost all the staff underneath have changed so, whatever the many, many other factors that have contributed to our current position and are highlighted in posts above, he is the main man that is ultimatley accountable. He'd have overseen a slashing in attendance, a massive reduction in turnover and much inferior product on display.

Sure, the margins of success and failure are very thin in football (although this year his policies have directly impacted us so if we stay up or not he needs to go and fingers crossed we stay up)

This is not a 'quick fix' or whim or knee jerk reaction. This is over the course of 10 years. This is a man who has turned a successful football club and business into a very unsuccessful one. Whatever good he did in the first part of his first tenure he must be held accountable if we get relegated again, and should quit even if we manage to turn it around despite his influence this year.

Got my train ticket yesterday!

I thought Davies would be great for us. But then i thought Forest would be up near Donny now as well. Looks like that isn't working out as i thought. Wrong again! That said it doesn't look like all is well behind the scenes there. He's had his hands tied regards transfers.

this thread really shows how poor the squad is' date=' a right back is suspended and we really have no replacement in a must not lose game[/quote']

 

And he isn't even a right back!

 

Sadly this is where the stupid policy at the start of the season is coming back to bite us. Wotte managed to reasonably gel the 11 decent players we had left and we are much tougher than we were around Christmas.

 

But sadly we all know we wasted what little money we had so where is the big centre fwd we need? Where is the right back we need? We've only got 11 players in the squad and no plan b.

 

I'm feeling quite negative today sorry.

Umm. I'm not warming to Wotte especially. As i've said before if he keeps us up he's done a good job and should stay. But if we go down i think a clean broom throughout would be helpful.

Fresh players, fresh board. The likes of Steve Cotteriall would be good for that division me thinks.

I thought our midfield was too samey on Saturday.

Gillette was the pick for me, a little scrappy thing winning lots of ball. But Morgan and Surman lost the physical battle too easily. We looked very one-dimensional.

Not sure how we played in the three we won as didn't see them so it may have been a blimp (but it was very similar to the Bristol City game last month), but i'd be tempted to push Skacel into a more attacking role and give Llanana the chance ahead of McGoldrick.

I think we need the early goal tomorrow. All the last few wins have come with us getting a lead in the first half hour.

'when' imo ss? And in many people's opinions it would be some achievment due to a pretty remarkable manager.

True! Think there's as much chance of Charlton getting out of it as there is Leicester screwing it up now. They'd even had a relative blimp before Saturday, drawing a few. Turned that around on Sat though didn't they!

Spot on Wes.

 

Have people completely forgotten Wilde's role in our financial plight?? Or is Crouch the worst businessman in history bringing the club to itskness is just four months???

 

I am, though, heartily sick and tired of the likes of Sundance continually digging and digging at Pearson. It's really quite unpleasant the way a decent man has been maligned and slated just because he's a Crouch signing.

 

I do love the way though, that Sundance perpetuates the "Ducth" myth and that the "Dutch Revolution" is still on track merely because the new manager is Dutch.

 

So did we have a Scottish revolution when we had Strachan and Burley as managers?? A born again christian revolution when we employed Hoddle? To say that Wotte is an exponent of the "Dutch revolution" is laughable as if anything he's more akin to a traditional 442 than anything Poortvielt came up with..

 

At the end of the day, Pearson was, if anything, more a Rupert Lowe managerial appointment than Poortvielt ever was. A young, aspiring English manager with loads of experience with young players, a fact that the likes of Sundance and his team of history re-writers seem to forget. He brought in loan players as we were desperate and boy, did he get them right as the likes of Lucketti, Perry and Wright were just what we needed in terms of old hands who knew the score. Compare that to some of the ridiculous signings that Poortvielt brought in and then tell me who's the better manager?

 

To just write him off as some sort of dinosaur and to ignore his achievements as Leicester is just plain cheap and pathetic. To write of Leicester's surge towards the championship as "Well they've got money. They're a big club in a small league" is remarkably naive and stupid. Ask Leeds fans if it's an easy league.

 

What Leicester have to contend with is what we had to contend with in our first two seasons in the Championship... Everyone wants to beat them. To get back at the first attempt is no mean achivement and it relies solely on

a) A good manager

and

b) A good chairman, especially in League One where cash is tight.

 

Guess what? Leicester have both...

And just to support this, of teams that have been in the Prem and then relegated to League 1 how many have gone straight back up to the CCC?

One, Manchester City, scrapping through the play offs.

How many failed at the first attempt, if at all? Bradford, Forest, Leeds, Sheff Weds.

If Leicester get up and get up automatically it will be some achievement.

Huddersfield possibly?

Yes, think that its them.

Just shows though what a step down it would be. Of course attendances would drop but i'd hope we wouldn't see any/many sub 10k attendances. Even if we struggle.

It was a very subdued atmos yesterday all round. First trip to St Sndrews, not impressed. But i was full of cold so a bit subdued myself!

Intresting looking at League 1 attendences, only Leeds, Leicester, MK Dons and one other that i can't remember that are averaging over 10k this season.

I think this is a lot of fuss over nothing.

I don't think we are close to admin at all. As Steve said, relegation doesn't mean a big loss of revenue, except possibly dwindling gates.

As a result if we drop down a division i think we'd need an entirely different pricing structure for STs, members and match day tickets to encourage as many along as poss if we're doing poorly but still be able to cash in if we do well. Delaying the decision is just common sense.

I still think and hope that I'm right that Lowe has always talked down the finances to strengthen his position at the club, distance himself from the last regime if his ideas go belly up and enable him to force through his flawed policies. Not sure how tight it would be if we went down and started poorly, but i would be very surprised if we went into admin this season or at all if we stayed up.

I think this is a lot of fuss over nothing.

I don't think we are close to admin at all. As Steve said, relegation doesn't mean a big loss of revenue, except possibly dwindling gates.

As a result if we drop down a division i think we'd need an entirely different pricing structure for STs, members and match day tickets to encourage as many along as poss if we're doing poorly but still be able to cash in if we do well. Delaying the decision is just common sense.

I still think and hope that I'm right that Lowe has always talked down the finances to strengthen his position at the club, distance himself from the last regime if his ideas go belly up and enable him to force through his flawed policies. Not sure how tight it would be if we went down and started poorly, but i would be very surprised if we went into admin this season or at all if we stayed up.

Brilliant. Well done boys.

I hate sounding negative but this makes the first two thirds of the season all the much more frustrating.

But great result. Keep up the passion and we've got a chance hopefully.

The main thing this shows is that there is a vast difference between being a board member, or even chairman, and being a CEO involved in the day-to-day running of the club where this sort of thing has to be (and would be) known.

Does that mean we can't get rid of Lowe because he's got 10 years knowledge?

How did you feel when Rupert took over then?

I think its clear and everyone would agree he has made big mistakes' date=' but the professor is merely stating that its perhaps logical and rational to also acknowledge what ahs been achieved and I happen to agree... he is responsible for some things, but NOT for everything as some do like to insinuate.[/quote']

 

And fair enough too.

 

It's just a question i find interesting. There are a number of debates to be had (have been had!) on the merits or otherwise on what Lowe has done and how much impact they have had on where we are now.

 

I just wondered, for those that defend Lowe, at what point can it be said he has 'failed'. I reckon he has, given he's halved our turnover and we're in our lowest league position for 49 years. Just wondered what others opinions were?