OttawaSaint

Where’s @trousers when we need him most?

Say it is all a narrative. What is so bad about tackling racism head on, educating children about how to spot racism and why it is wrong and creating a better more harmonious and inclusive country (my country too). Why is that upsetting to you? It’s like the environmental change cartoon joke where someone asks, “what if it’s a hoax, what if we end up making a better world for nothing?”.

Also: The aim of an argument, or of a discussion, should not be victory, but progress.

Eh? You can criticize someone without there being a racial motive. What I was saying was that posting that the words weren’t racist doesn’t mean there wasn’t a racial motivation that the police know about. I didn’t say that the mural thing was racist just that we don’t have the full story. What I was getting at was that all this debate about the mural and not being able to see the tweets detracts from educating people about racism and racist behaviour. I haven’t seen the reports about the mural. To me it’s not relevant. If people want to use it to gather and raise awareness about how to stamp out racism then that’s fine, even if the words weren’t inherently racist.

How do you know what their motivation was? Just because they didn’t write anything inherently racist doesn’t mean that the vandalism wasn’t racially motivated. If say an Indian family’s store had a brick thrown through the window, the attack could be said to be racially motivated even though there wasn’t anything written on the store in graffiti. Perhaps witnesses heard the vandals using racist language while writing on the Rashford mural. Perhaps the police have more information than they are reporting. In any case, pedantry about what constitutes racist and what doesn’t only detracts from an issue that needs to be addressed so that kids growing up see that it is wrong and that calling out and denouncing racism is appropriate. People aren’t born racist, they learn it from others.

So you believe that “mugs” on here are implying you are racist without actually saying it, but you don’t believe that black England players were targeted with racist abuse without seeing the evidence. Got it.

So no one then? So are you more worried about being accused of being a racist or racism itself?

Who in this thread called you a racist?

Excellent post! You most likely cannot change a racist, what we have to do is empower people to not just stand by and let it happen.

Nothing wrong with your eyesight then!

Spot on but all we have here are a bunch of white guys saying, “I haven’t heard/seen any racism so it either doesn’t or isn’t a big deal”. Do these same people demand to see dead bodies after a murder? I mean, how do we know someone was murdered?

😂 Oh boy...

We’re going through something similar in Canada. Even though it’s been known for a while by many people the discovery of many mass burial sites of indigenous kids taken from their families and sent to residential schools to be whitewashed has increased the awareness of racism towards First Nations people in this country. These headlines are news to some but a lot of it I said being met by statements such as “it can’t be that bad because this is the first I’ve heard of it” and the like. I’m assuming many of us on this forum are white males. How can we say things like “oh it’s just a minority”, “don’t read those tweets etc”. We have no clue how it feels. What we need to do is listen to what the other races in our countries have to say and do better by calling out racist acts when we see/hear them.

The penalty line up doesn’t make much sense after McGuire. Rashford has been a serial penalty misser for Utd. After that 2 kids. All three have barely had a chance to actually kick the ball in the game. Southgate himself was a scapegoat for 96 but he was young and like Sako and Sancho had the brass balls to go and take one while more experienced pros hid like kids not wanting to be called upon by the teacher. Southgate has lived this and probably felt anger towards the likes of Ince, Anderton and McManaman. Why didn’t he shield those kids and send in the older pros?

I hate when they take off the runner up medals. I get why they do it but they should be proud of the work they did, pushing it all the way to a shootout. Best ever England Euro achievement. Be proud!

If you bring on 2 players to take pens then they’re going to be stewing about it for too long. Questioning themselves, feeling the pressure. It needs to be more about who’s feeling confident to pick a spot and hit it. Great saves can happen but all 3 were nervous penalties. Shaw should have taken one.

Yep. Shame on them for letting kids take the pressure shots. Gutless!

No team has ever won 2 shootouts in the same Euro. Cup is England’s!

Or a penalty specialist for 8 or so minutes from now.

Trippier’s cross looked like a momentum curve...

Saints score!!!

Oops I was wrong.

Wow, was a total dive. Flabbergasted they gave that after looking at it. 😂

Going to turn down the sound. I think Drury is going to destroy my speakers if/when England score.

Denmark are shattered. I don’t think they’ll be able to withstand this for much longer.