Minty

Agree entirely.

Our defensive play has been more tactical than down to individuals. Substitutions won't make that much difference unless we change shape a little going forward IMO. Koeman needs to tweak it a bit, and I'm sure he will. And judging Elia on 45 minutes away at Old Trafford is, frankly, silly.

Indeed. And with the talent Man Utd have got going forward, you have to keep it quite tight. I think we're doing alright.

This is far from terrible. It's quite an interesting tactical match-up IMO. I may be biased, but I also feel that we can improve a lot and really trouble them.

No, they've looked more like creating a chance, that I'll concede. But they haven't done so at all yet. If Forster had been forced into a few saves, then yes, but he hasn't. We need to keep the ball a bit better, but they're not that much ahead.

One dodgy kick, that's it.

No, they've had more possession, but done little with it.

You appear to have put a question mark after that sentence, when it should've just been a full stop. Blatant as you like.

Should probably keep this thread to Gordon Taylor, seeing as we have one on Evans himself. Personally, I think his comments last night about Hillsborough, but also effectively pre-empting the result of Evans' appeal, were completely out of order. It is not his place to determine Evans' guilt or not. I accept they have a role to play representing him in trying to get him a game again (good luck with that) but those other comments were just wrong.

What, people comment on the internet without having done any of their own reading or research into a subject?!? Next you'll be telling me they are only using what is in the media to derive their limited opinions...

That actually sounds like a great idea for a one off show at the Nuffield...

Genuinely don't know, but can understand that that could be the case. This is one hell of a tangent for this thread mind you...

Probably find it in the kids section when it eventually comes out...

Unlikely, given that religion is often about interpreting the written text there will no doubt be many who will interpret passages of the Bible or others to show that other species are possible and that God created them too. And, no doubt, many other interpretations and justifications to maintain beliefs. That said, I personally think that, given the size of the universe in terms of distance and time, it is unlikely we'll ever discover another intelligent species in the time that ours exists.

He also seemed to effectively be predicting the outcome of the appeal and has seemingly decided that Evans was wrongly convicted... very, very dangerous ground IMO.

But that wasn't the point - you claimed the developed world had moved away from religion, whereas that study clearly shows it hasn't. The degree to which people practice their faith wasn't specified... is that now important?

No, but all for your criticism you must have some idea of how we might go about changing things for the better? Anything at all?

http://www.pewforum.org/2012/12/18/global-religious-landscape-exec/ - I know it's an estimate, but you have to go quite some way even to get down to 49% to qualify your statement that 'most of the developed world manages quite easily without religion.' Perhaps you should take some time to understand a bit more about why people are religious and what it means to them, to understand it's place in modern society, before dismissing it so easily? As I said previously, I speak as an Atheist who bases his beliefs on science. But IMO to understand the world we live in, and the human race, you need to make some attempt to understand and respect all aspects of it, even those bits you don't agree with.

Extremism, most likely by someone alleging to do so 'in the name' of Islam. I'm not going to deny that. But the subtle nuance here is that, irrespective of numbers of atrocities, or the fact that at this point in our history, incidents linked to Islam are clearly more commonplace than others, that does not mean that Islam itself needs to be condemned or attacked, nor is directly responsible. Showing intolerance to their religion will only encourage intolerance of ours or our way of life. Here's the thing. I broadly agree with you about religion, and I said so earlier. But what is the way forward? To condemn an entire religion, including by association the 99% of it's followers who are peaceful and law-abiding? What will that achieve? If we 'stopped pandering and faced the facts', what DO we actually do? What is a constructive way forward? What, all 1.6 billion of them? Including the ones that VFTT and others talked about above when they had nothing but positive things to say about their interactions?

OK, lets cut to the chase. Even if the 'Islam' list is longer than the 'Christianity' list, what is the point you're trying to make?

If you can't appreciate what is good about multiculturalism, what is good about having a better understanding of different faiths and beliefs, what is good about sharing our knowledge and experiences and theories for improving our future lives, and you think that we are better off in isolation, then I fear this conversation is going nowhere.

No. I don't call myself religious, and don't follow any recognised religion, but I do have beliefs and values, which are essentially, all that a religion is. Mine tend to be based on science and so I do find it difficult to discuss some issues with people who hold orthodox religious views sometimes. That said, I have some good friends who are dedicated Christians, who I have some fascinating conversations with about all sorts, because we respect each others beliefs and are comfortable having them challenged. I also recognise that human consciousness is a very complex thing and that there is comfort for many in having a system of shared beliefs. Also, that by far the greatest output from ALL religious individuals that I personally know, of all denominations, is love, care and compassion for others.

How about 'Zakat'?

Well at least we now know that you're intolerant of ALL religions, not just Islam... I was getting a bit concerned for awhile.

Yeah, I know, although I didn't realise they had the Iraqi Minister of Information working for them now.