Saint86

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3638718/Sevilla-confirm-Unai-Emery-exit-Jorge-Sampaoli-jets-hold-talks-club.html

Emery has paid his exit fee at Sevilla!

So it seems we face another summer meltdown yet it seems that 'meltdown' has become shorthand for improvement in recent years. With Koeman looking destined to leave, what would be the most quality consequences of our latest meltdown?

 

For example, my dream meltdown result would be:

 

Koeman leaves and is replaced by an ever better quality manager who not only leads us to unprecedented Premier League highs, but also brings with him quality backroom staff and between them they show Koeman and his crew how to develop our youngsters into world beaters and how to get players desperate to play for Saints rather than anyone else.

 

Of course, the only problem with that scenario is that it reduces the options for further successful meltdowns!!

I really don't think there is a meltdown tbh. Annoyance at the lies from both sides, but trust that we will recruit well has been earnt over previous seasons. People are eagerly awaiting who our new manager will be, and what we'll spend the wanyama and possibly Mane money on.

The over the top anger and hurt about Koeman leaving is really embarrassing. It's like someone pretending they hate the girl that just dumped them then crying all day.

 

He left, he did a great job here, we'll get someone else. Banging on about it and worrying what he does elsewhere just makes us look smalltime. We're a far bigger club that we were 5 years ago and there's no reason we can't keep growing. I appreciate what Pochettino and Koeman did in playing their part, but what they do now has nothing to do with Saints. I hope we can finish above Everton of course, but that's about it.

 

Koeman is just a football manager who took a big pay rise for a club that was big when he was still playing. Perfectly understandable decision. He's not suddenly some despicable human being and he still did a very good job here.

IKR, fans can't accept that he was partly pushed and was party guaranteed £21m over 3 years plust nearly £200m to build his own squad. And that ignores the fact that he actually rejected their first offer (of 5 times his saints wages). We let him go / pushed him out the door.

Fan's need to get a grip, Koeman gave us our best ever prem seasons.

What's the problem if the immigrants are making a net contribution to the society? EU migrants put in way more than their fair share. Its migration from outside the EU that costs us when its Ali Al-Jabber bringing over his fourth wife and her cousins etc.

 

Who's costing the country more; Jacek the plumber, or these two who were laughably bumped to the front of the queue for a council flat in Tooting and offered a bilingual 'minder' to help them with things like shopping? (though they turned it down to continue to live on their bench).

 

http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/12898609.Homeless_Somali_family_return_to_another_bench_in_Tooting/

I am a civil engineer, so look at things from an infrastructure planning perspective (I should add that there is bulgarian, croatian, german, greek and spanish people in the team and everyone gets along very nicely and doesn't mention the referendum! ) But seriously.

What was the figure quoted? 1.6million net immigration?

It is not possible to build houses at the rate of 8 per minute to track current population growth. Let alone build new schools, hospitals, increase roads and train transport, power etc. Be practical here. Even if everyone who comes into the country contributes (such as all the highly skilled members of my team!) It doesn't pay for these things over night. On top of that, you need to train new teachers, new nurses, new doctors, new engineers to build the above. etc etc etc.

Yes, long term it may be good. But we are putting massive and harmful stresses on our society and infrastructure. Its not worth it. We need control of immigration and our own borders, and we need to introduce targeted immigration centred around key skills.

In addition, you slander immigrants from outside the EU. Not really called for. And a great proportion of the doctors and nurses propping up the NHS are from ex commonwealth countries! Rather have them than any number of waitreses. If we are choosing. But that comes down to what you think is contributing? Do you want power, roads, schools, hospitals.... or do you want coffee? There is a limit to what the country can take, and people see that debate as racist far to often.

Was interesting tonight.

Firstly you could tell that Cameron is obviously the more polished stage speaker. He's had the practice, the training etc. Farage has suffered over the years from being demonised in the press pretty much non-stop, and i think that showed in his defensiveness and awkwardness.

I did feel that those two girls that attacked him as racist missed (or had no interest in what he said) his responses. And in fact his argument that he would rather see more commonwealth immigration which is currently harmed by the EU immigration essentially overriding it was interesting. It was good to see Mr Boparai having a go at Cameron for immigration figures being out of control and harming his access to medical care, education, housing etc. It made the two girls seem even more stupid given they'd previously said that Farage was a racist and no one in ethnic minorities supported his arguments. Still, not a great showing from him.

Cameron largely danced around all the issues, he can't hide the fact that his deal is useless, that we have now been threatened with punishment by the EU whether we remain or leave. I think the only point he has any leg to stand on his change to immigration benefits where they must now pay in for 4 years to get anything out. Still this is too little to late and it was nice to see the audience boo him when he said he had no forecast on future immigration figures.

At the end of the day, i think its telling that the last general election was 52% to Ukip and Tories. We know that most tories will vote leave, Ukip obviously will, and then a fair chunk of labour will. We also know that the "silent tory" and fear of bring branded right wing or racist keeps the poll figures hidden. The government know they are losing, hence the house hold leaflet drop at the start and the purposeful misinformation throughout and keeping the argument centred over tiny topics like the aspects of cameron's deal and the economy. In truth people are voting on whether we want to be part of a european super state, whether we want to continue with 55% of our laws being made in brussels and how we feel about our ability to rule ourselves and trade with the rest of the world and commonwealth. I think people are also being scared into believing that Europe is key to our security, when in fact controlling our borders will handle a lot of that, and NATO is the defensive alliance, not the EU, no matter how much we want to tell ourselves otherwise. If we leave, we can stop worrying about this, we are the worlds 5th largest economy, 12% of it depends on the EU, and over a gradual break away we will be able to trade with a far larger and more diverse set of economies.

Sadly, my wife's sister and mother have paid no attention to the politics debates etc and are voting according to the government leaflet earlier on. I honestly wish that if people didn't know how to vote that they wouldnt! rather than voting for status quo without understanding what it means.

We'll see what happens.

Not sure how you come this conclusion, but who knows you could well be right?

 

I personally think RK was going to sign a new contract with us at a rumoured £3M a year (no idea if that is true but it is widely quoted) which is probably a vast increase on his current deal (£1M??) but Everton have come in with a completely stupid offer (£7M FFS). Do I blame RK for taking it - no, not really but does not mean he or Everton will be more successful, but whatever his choice - 3 year contract at £21M in total, I can live with being a failure on that! The real sad part is that some w.anker from abroad has completely negated the new TV deal deal by paying completely stupid and unwarranted premiums and set a new base wage on players and managers - would have been nice to see the extra money ploughed into infrastructure, player development, grass roots footy etc. etc. but was never really going to happen in reality I guess.

 

This simple and pleasurable game is rapidly getting priced out for the average fan - such a shame. Fondly remember talking to Emlyn Hughes (god bless him) about his love of the game and being afraid to ask for a pay rise to £100 a week after winning the European Cup !!!

Perfect summary Red. Very well said.

It also doesn't look good that the club are using as many sticks possible to tarnish Koeman when in reality there was some degree of friction behind the scenes with some players and Les Reed and he's probably had a bit of a shove in the back given the compensation packages offered. In reality, for the compo being offered we can pay a manager on twice what we originally offered Koeman for 2.5 years, far greater than the average tenure in the top flight.

Not bad business, but a shame people are unable to give him an amicable departure since he is our best ever prem manager and gave us some great seasons.

Seriously, someone needs to get a grip on these small time Evertonions. Never known anything like it.

 

Maybe the Brighton fans came close.

It says a lot when even Poopey don't go to these measures!!!

It is ******* hilarious mind

I think Koeman's god fed up with everyone else and gone on holiday and told em to sort it out. Maybe even has his eye on the dutch job. Pretty solid poke game by RoKo.

I've always thought that there was more to this than RK wanting to go, this is part the club decision as well.

 

I remember Guan, or k,billy, mentioned that if he wouldn't sign an extension they wouldn't be against 'moving him' on this summer. I think in some respects this is what has happened. He was probably more than happy enough to stay for the last year and wouldn't have forced an exit. This is why I think people are being a bit too quick to jump in the 'Koeman is a c**t who has no loyalty' bandwagon.

The penny is dropping. The club have done a PR job on koeman like so many others. It even extends to "ITK" snippets on here. Rather than an amicable departure he joints the list of everyone else leaving saints being a disposable scumbag. Coincidental that that is almost exclusive to people that leave saints. Just or lies from the club. I have no issue with koeman going if he won't extend. But there are right ways and wrong ways to do it! A thank you and farewell is better than tarnishing a man's image when we're actually forcing him out regardless.

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Emery does not speak any English. Could be an issue.

You are a total mug. He speaks perfect English and there has even been a video posted to that effect.

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Ah, yes, my mistake. I can remember the 03-04 season, we finished 17th, so you obviously did come above us.

 

No, we haven't been a 'powerhouse'. Nobody should be claiming that. However, in the same breath, football didn't start when the PL began, and even in the PL era we have had more relative 'success' than Sotton.

 

I wouldn't say we have a better side. I'd say they are about equal on paper - and that while your side has performed brilliantly, ours has underperformed in the last two seasons. I think you've got a fantastic squad, and over the past two years you have certainly been the better team. I have said that before. However, that doesn't make you 'bigger'.

 

Tbh, I think the plan with RK will be to see where he can get us. If he gets us in a position that a massive club comes calling, then we'll most likely be in the top four, which means we can attract a replacement that is of equal quality. I suppose that's the hope, anyway.

 

As for whoever you end up with as your new man (should this RK deal not implode at any minute), then the best of luck. You're in a great position to attract a very good manager, and Europe to boost.

 

I've been entirely civil in every post on here. I'm not going to be oversensitive about any snarky comments - whatever, it's the internet - but usually it is good to get the views of other fans (apart from Liverpool). I just really don't get the whole 'Sotton are bigger than Everton' argument... they ain't... and that's not to be rude or even to say it's a reason RK has moved (I don't think it is - I think money and the 'project', whatever that may be, is what made him want to join, and maybe a lack of support from Saints' side?).

 

Anyway, I'll have used up my post allowance with this, but if people are willing to have a reasonable discussion I'd like to stick around. It'll be interesting to get the views once all the dust has settled...

I think it's a good post. But I think the point you miss is that saints fans resent being told he's going to Everton because you're a big club. It's a stupid argument. Koeman was going to stay with saints after your original large offer, so you upped it to a ridiculous level. He's joining you because of the money. If anything that tells you that saints are the more attractive prospect. Sadly (and wisely) saints don't overspend and are sustainably run so we're not going to pay him more than he's worth, especially if he's had his head turned. Their are plenty of good managers in the sea so I am eager to see who we get. We could well still be laughing. Meanwhile Everton need to get over this "big club" malarky, it really doesn't count for anything when you haven't won anything within the lifetime of most of your players. It comes down to recent history, fanbase/stadium, set up and money. So yes, you are big, but not much between you and half the premium teams. Maybe you'll change that by sliding money around, maybe you won't.

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What they need to do is sign all of our key targets before Ronald takes them to Everton with their mega bucks. That is seriously key.

Can people please stop buying the PR BS that the club put out. Seriously.

The warning signs were there for most surely when Les Reed spontaneously decided to put out a PR piece saying that, 'everyone was on board and that we'd stepped up and were looking to push on to europa etc.'

He does it every time... As soon as he made that video and released it surely people twigged by now that their was bad news coming?!?!! Its his pattern, big up the club, himself and how well things are going and that way he has his positive spin on it before the real stories get out there. Its a very subtle character assassination and then afterwards they use club sources like blackmore to force it home.

The truth is somewhere in the murky area of Koeman wasn't doing what Les wanted over the academy, there was trouble behind the scenes with a few players, mid season blip, we aren't paying Koeman what he feels he's worth and what Everton are paying him is ridiculous.

Now I am not saying that I want to club to spend irresponsibly to get things done. I am happy we don't. But what I hate is the way that man thinks he can undermine every edifice of the club that falls out of line with him. He does the same trick every time and sets them up to be the fall guys before the bad news gets out. It is his job to drive the club onwards which he has continued... but it also his job to get key players and staff on board for the long haul and he has repeatedly failed in this. Rather than play these games and undermine fan favourites he should just be bloody honest about it. It is a really shoddy way to treat both the players/staff involved and the fans.

Les did it immediately before Lambert (right before ST deadline), lallana, shaw, chambers etc all left. He did it with Clyne as a carbon copy of "poch's contract" saga... And he's done it again with Ronald. Its the same crap routine every time and frankly every time he speaks to the mass fanbase without need is a sign that there is bad news coming.

Most fans have cottoned on to this now at least, and you can even see it on the daily mail threads where saints fans are laying it at his feet and pointing to his interview as the sign. He is sadly a chronic liar and I can't stand it about him!

But when all is said and done, he is our Levy. A complete shiester and knife in the shadows, but he is continuously guiding the club onwards. I don't knock him for that, he has done a good job for us since Cortese left all in all. But I just wish the fans would see him for what he is rather than some fecking almighty "do no wrong" saviour. All these players and managers that leave us are not bad people, the club actively set them up as the fall guys to cover themselves from fan discontent at what the board see as our limits. The fans want more, the board can't deliver it, and therefore they blame everything they can rather than just accept it.

If koeman is gone I'd have Gary Neville. The man has won almost as much as Koeman, had a fantastic career and clearly has the tactical nonce to do the job.

I still don't believe Koeman has gone, and if he has then it is either down purely to ridiculous money (in which case I don't blame him or the club), or it is down to tensions behind the scenes (not very hard to imagine given the snippets that leaked out this season).

Either way, saints will be great next season. Stop wetting yourselves folks.

And for god's sakes, the muppets that are just insulting and abusing each other on this thread are utter numpties.

100% Unai Emery

 

I'd love to keep Ron. But if I were an Everton fan I'd rather have Emery.

 

De Boar would be decent but I think we are the perfect club for Emery. If it comes to it, we need to get him in on a 4-5 year contract.

ABSOLUTLEY 100% THIS.

Top players want good wages, great players around them and the chance to win trophies.

They also want to be playing in cracking stadiums with great fans. SMS doesn't cut it and needs expanding (and filling) to 40-45k. Its up to the brains at the club to make that work.

The sad truth is there are clubs in leagues below us with either larger stadiums or equivalent stadiums to saints.

I've said this before, but the prem's tv money won't last. Nothing ever does. And when it ends, the clubs with 50k, 60k, 70k stadiums will always have them. British football as a whole should be using this period to invest in great stadiums and lower ticket prices... rather than putting money into wages. Idealistic I know, but that is how you actually build for the future. More fans attending, more kids watch games, getting a love for the sport and entering academies etc... Cynics can argue that it can't be afforded, but its simply a choice clubs should make. With the rapid increases in tv monies each season clubs could afford to do it without getting in peril.. I mean do people think that championship clubs are going to magically outspend established prem clubs? And look at arsenal and tottenham. Both have or are increasing their capacities whilst continuing to play at the top level. At the end of it they will surge forward. Arsenal have never dropped out of the top 4 and are now established (No other club has managed that feet since arsenal have been top 4).

Everton chairman is just another asian/middle eastern money man, coming to the uk and thinking that is all about flashing the cash and that anything can be purchased. The guy has no idea what integrity and honor is and I have little doubt that Koeman doesn't want to work for someone like that. koeman has been there and done pretty much everything on football. With us he has a project and a challenge on his hands. and a club and fanbase who are behind him and support him. With everton he'll get a douche bag who values money/success over everything else, and a fanbase that are apparently almost as delusional as massive club Newcastle. Fortunately Keoman is honorable and probably the antithesis of a mercenary. The clubs that think the answer is to throw money at everything just end up as souless. Look at united, chelsea, city etc recently.

So, I have an astrophysics degree from soton. I don't normally get involved in discussions like this but the opening post of this whole thread is just offensive to me and underpins so much is wrong with climate science and the very public 'debates' that take place over it. These normally follow the pattern of people with no scientific background taking one report or quote on one side of the debate, declaring it loudly and calling those that disagree idiots (or worse) and sticking their fingers in their ears. Sorry to those that do it but that isn't science and is my biggest grumble with the whole issue in general.

We can see that temperature is varying through history and pre history, so some scientists announced a theory that wasn't 100% and then slam any dissection of said theory, thus completely polarising any future debate. It's just bad science. On top of that, the actual climate change theories have changed and evolved since they first came about which is an acknowledgement they were incorrect I, yet they have vehemently defended them from any criticism since the start. Scientists should seek the truth in how the universe works and welcome challenge and further investigation into still poorly understood phenomena. As for man made co2 governing climate change, I still don't think this is the case still and I am some way short of having confidence in it being the leading variable. Good scientific discussion and investigation will eventually get to the bottom of it. Sadly what happens at the moment is 1 side of the debate get paid lots of money to generally 'prove' it and then social media is used to squash debate. And really, what kind of theory is so weak that it needs that level of fanatical defence?!?! See opening post. (I believe I am some crazy right wing denier for thinking for myself with my obviously non scientific background...)

My views are that climate scientists should first learn to understand global whether patterns and models first as these are still woefully inaccurate. Once they can adequately explain and predict general trends they'll be able to understand longer term ones in detail and their sensitivities to different factors. There is a very strong argument for the sun's role in weather patterns and global temperatures that falls outside of the common view taken that sun is getting hotter and hotter therefore the earth will get hotter. This effect happens and is not really allowed for in man made GW arguments and could well be a significant factor. Regardless of that, climate change is here and always has been, and we aren't going to change it. We would be far better off tackling pollution in the world starting with the islands of toxic plastic or caring for the rainforests. We lose either of those two ecosystems to collapse and no one will care about what co2 does or doesn't do. To summarise, the scientists currently leading climate debate to not have an accurate mode or understanding of cloud formation which is a real driver in the earth's self control of temperature; and one of the most viable theories unfortunately undermines man made global warming. There was also a study by Bristol university a couple of years ago that showed whilst levels of man made co2 in the atmosphere had increased, the total level of co2 was largely constant. Sadly the problem with that data, as with most climate data, is that you are looking over only a small timescale in the geological sense.

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Can't believe people trying to defend this post. I posted Long's stats in this thread when he was still "the understudy" and being played out of position and typically for only parts of games... Even then he came out better than Tadic which was the point I made with the stats and somewhat ended the argument I would have thought on this thread.

Despite that, people are still going on about it and trying to save face now as well. MLG is correct. It was bloody clear that Long was a quality player for us. Even when he was out wide and even when he was only getting bit part appearances. The point people were making on this thread was frankly embarrassing and its even more cringe watching people trying to defend or weasel out of it now.

We dont sit to pretty in the net debt table, and we are one of the highest in the wages to turn over table...

Considering we have been banking massive TV payouts for recent seasons with no significant transfer spend I find that slightly underwhelming.

So we shouldn't believe the words you can clearly see Reed saying?

 

Surely he has earned that respect?

 

He says there are contract talks, Ron's new Agent says there are contract talks and Reed says there is only any point in involving the Agent in specific contract talks once Koeman is aligned to the future plans.

 

Don't get the negativity?

He has a track record as a cronic liar...

Morgan back in a heart beat.

You are dreaming if you think we can afford any of their wages. Lets be clear.. we've spent 3 years trying to get 60k a week gaston off the books. Most we pay is around 45-50k. Morgan is nearly double that.

Saints need to expand the stadium with the tv monies and drop the ticket price if they must to fill it.

One day the tv monies will end. When that happens we will be left with a 32k stadium and those who have expanded to 50k, 60k, 70k will be there with their larger match day revenues and saints will be back in a stadium bringing in 30% of the big clubs as the major share of our income (bar sales). We are on top now, the prem is on top now... build for the future.

On another note. Their are league 2 and 1 clubs that have stadiums of a comparable size to saints. Thats my view. I'd take worse football for a few years to build something special and fund it with the tv monies... I mean hell, we appear to just bank them anyway...

I think this is a load of ballarks to be honest. And also some of the posters on this thread need to get a serious grip on themselves.

If we can survive (and improve on) a summer where our club captain, club talisman, best youth player since Bale, another cracking youth player and one of our best centre backs in the prem all leave, then I think we can survive Tadic, Pelle and co leaving. The only one we'll really miss is Mane, and we will cash that in for all its worth so who cares?!?!?! We've shown how well we can spend as a club plenty of times.

I'm personally happy for pelle to leave, we'll get what we paid for him (more or less) and in the meantime he's score some key goals for us. As for Tadic, earlier in the season most of the halfwits on here started a thread saying we should sell long and said he was a waste of cash compared to Tadic. He's a good player, but seriously? People think he is irreplaceable? I have no issues with selling him and getting a decent replacement... Townsend, ox etc? And thats just the english ones...

The midfield has been imbalanced for a while and selling wanyama gives us a chance to correct that and build a new one. No worries for me there. A good player, but one that had rubbish discipline and at times couldn't hit a barn door with a pass at 6 yards. Excited to see what we bring in in his place.

Think the reactions in this thread are a bit of a joke tbh. Our key players are Long, Forster, Fonte, VVD, Claise, Mane, Davis and Bertrand. Only one of those is linked away and if Mane goes we'll get a shed load of dosh to reinvest.

Negatives:

Less games which means less income from match days. This is most felt at the lower rungs of the league ladder where tv money contributes less to teams incomes.

Positives:

Less games for these teams so lower injuries, less fatigue, more competitive in cups etc

More promotion/playoffs etc.

More teams in the football league