SWLondon Saint

Las Palmas got this guy to come in at the October international break when they were rock bottom and hadn't won in 8 months. Out of the relegation zone now. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/nov/11/las-palmas-diego-martinez-la-liga

Yep. We're completely predictable, must be a dream for other teams - everything in front of them, nothing in behind, slow build up that doesn't stretch the defence.

I honestly think part of the reason the players' heads drop when we concede is that no-one feels we have a chance to get back into it because the way they've been told to play creates so few chances. If we knew we could create chances and were regularly having lots of shots then the players would be much more up for a comeback. But you never see Martin pushing the team forward on the sidelines. We stick on a giant upfront but the message is still play it short. So if he can't be bothered why should the players?

The next run of games is brutal so we could quite easily lose the next 6 or 7 in a row before West Ham at home on Boxing day at which point if we're still on 4 points surely the crowd will be furious. The only slightly credible 'plan' might be to let Martin take the flak for losing all these games we'd probably have lost anyway and then get someone in for next season when we're already down after Christmas.

Well, normally I'd agree, but considering we're already bottom of the league having managed the grand total of 0 shots on target and xG of 0.6 against the 2nd bottom team in the league, we literally can't get much worse....😅

https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/37367411/rickie-lambert-praises-former-boss-mauricio-pochettino I know this is from after they'd both legged it, but who in the current squad could we say Martin has 'improved massively'? Tactically it feels like he's made everyone doubt what their instincts are telling them to do for their position.

I mean she literally couldn't do much worse, but pretty sure she's getting a serious amount of cash from the US soccerball setup...

Pretty sure they can have an assistant with the Pro badge while they get theirs rushed through

Plus I'm not sure slagging everyone off for not supporting the manager and then mocking the likely result if we do support and keep this manager is quite the mic drop it was meant to be...

This forums lack of an accepted sarcasm font is definitely causing some confusion 😏

Definite no, he'd be a disaster. His 2 main assistant coaches left over the summer and it's been a mess ever since. Don't think he gets the success of the last few years without his assistants.

Had much the same from a Brentford supporting friend earlier in the season. He was just bemused by how crap and slow our play was, basically said they've never felt less threatened by a team since they've been in the PL.

Wasn't watching today, out of interest was there a single decent cross in to tall Paul after he came on?

The crazy thing is, this is a brilliant season to have been promoted as so many other teams are so bad we're not out of sight despite the appalling start we've had. Even more reason to change managers ASAP.

You can think that, but if you look at the xG, Everton created significantly better chances than we did and therefore 'deserved' the win more. It's fine to just to be happy with a lucky win.

While I was trying to find that old article about rest defence, I also happened across this one. Although it's about Antonio Conte, there's an interesting bit about what happens when teams know what you're going to do and counter it. https://analyticsfc.co.uk/blog/2023/01/23/the-automatisms-of-tottenham-hotspur-under-antonio-conte/ Though it also makes me wonder why, when everyone and their dog knew what Everton would do with that free kick (long to back post, back across to Beto), we still managed to leave them both completely unmarked for free headers.

The playing style is not particularly relevant to what happens when you lose the ball as it's inevitable you will lose it at some point, you just need to have a clear plan - have a look at this old article about Ralph which explains 'rest defence'. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/3581810/2022/09/22/explaining-southampton-manager-ralph-hasenhuttls-footballing-vocabulary/?redirected=1 I don't know if it's because the European managers are just more willing to talk in technical terms or the training in this country simply doesn't cover it in as much detail but I don't think I've heard Martin (or any English coach for that matter) talk with that level of specificity. Anyone done their UEFA A badge on here?

The problem here is you've cherry picked the crosses that scored - if you look at those games as a whole, there weren't that many other crosses! We simply don't get the ball in the red zone enough to create enough higher xG chances - it feels a lot like we're letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Also, all three of those crosses came in transition situations rather than from our PB 'style' ie drawing players out of position keeping possession at the back then bypassing the press. I actually am a fan of PB football, I just don't think Martin is doing it well enough, as well as his well known failing to organise the defence. If you want to see a detailed analysis of a similar PB (though better!) team, read this about Ole Werner's Werder Bremen team: https://totalfootballanalysis.com/head-coach-analysis/ole-werner-werder-bremen-202425-tactical-analysis-tactics I should add that our possession style is actually the most extreme in the PL - shorter passes and nearly always short goal kicks. So even the top teams and coaches you mention do not play PB like Martin. They mix it up more because if you do that, you create more attacking threat, which creates defensive uncertainty, which creates space and opportunities, etc etc. As I've said before, nothing personal against Martin, he's just out of his depth. He's never had experience of playing in or working with the manager of a top PB team - literally, how or when could he have when he started managing while still playing?!

MOTD had it as 5 goals in 75 Premier League appearances as he had 15 while at Newcastle.

Watching the highlights, we were really lucky not to lose to be honest. What is going on with the set piece defending - when they hit the bar the first volley back across was completely unmarked then same for Beto with the header? Keane totally unmarked when that cross came in for the Ramsdale worldie save too, that was after a corner had been half cleared if I remember right?

Bloody hell, glad you're back safe from Valencia, hope you weren't caught in the floods? And couldn't agree more on the shooting and I have to add crossing - just look at Liverpool's equaliser against Brighton today, Gakpo curls in a cross and it goes in. Simples. You don't cross or shoot, you don't score. Just saw on motd our xg was 0.67 Vs 1.47 for Everton so we just aren't creating enough.

I actually think if Martin is determined to keep playing Manning, which I think he probably is, it's better if KWP plays on the left as he can get forward and play as a winger to take on defenders. He's one of the best in our team for going past players and that's something we desperately need. Also, AA will be starting on the right for the foreseeable after scoring today and he tracks back well so I think Suga, who is still a bit off the pace defensively but good at crossing, is a worthwhile risk.

Phew. Did anyone else watching not think their disallowed one looked fairly comfortably onside? KWP looked a yard behind the others, I was mentally already in 'here we go again' mode. But then Arsenal's 2nd I thought Merino was clearly off and in Ramsdale's eyeline so happy to get the totally undeserved VAR boost for a change 🤣 Watched the whole thing, 2nd half we were definitely getting very disjointed after Manning went off for Dibling. They actually looked by far the likelier to score the whole half except for the goal! - AA is not ideal out wide, especially on the left. Absolutely zero threat to go past anyone and when we had the right footed Cap'n Jack and Fernandes out there too it was too predictable. But he closes down and tracks back really well so I can see the argument for him. - Dibling's decision making is still a bit hit and miss but at least he's direct and aggressive, and has the skill to go past people too. Think he may be better as a super sub this season so he can go at tired defenders. - Was tearing my hair out at AA's volley into the stand and then that bizarre header from KWP's excellent cross that he somehow got ahead of and then it looked like someone had just thrown the ball when he wasn't looking and smashed him on the side of the head. But great finish from Suga's excellent low pass into the box. Too many chances to hit the target once but it's not like that's news after all these years! - Several class saves from Ramsdale, MOTM for me for sure. Terrible defending though, totally free header for Keane?!? + Why is a f**king long ball over the top able to completely unlock our defence? Also, why was there absolutely f all pressure on the person playing the ball? Just can't let that happen at pretty much any level. We were lucky as hell not to concede. - Some hoofs clear from really dangerous positions - FINALLY! Don't know if this is a manager thing or the players deciding to go with their own instincts. Possibly the latter considering RM was going on about how proud he was wearing played out on the ground just prior to our goal. But after they hit the bar, they were distracted and it was definitely the right decision to run / pass out. One occasion I remember KWP was surrounded, would have been suicidal to try and pass out so he hoofed it. Sure, it came back quickly, but that's still much better than losing it in / near our area. - Our goal came, as most of our open play ones have this year, from a quick counter and attacking in transition! We just look so much better when we do this it's ridiculous. Archer has enough pace to be a real threat in behind. THB is actually really good playing those midrange passes. - I just don't understand why no-one on the staff can see that when Cap'n Jack has the ball in the inside left zone in midfield and turns back towards our goal, it is f**king RED ALERT every time. Other teams are clearly using it as a trigger to press because he plays some absolute hospital passes to the midfielders and fellow defenders. Also when he's under pressure near our area he is terrible at trying to play past the first line of the press. Couple of terrible giveaways luckily didn't lead to much, but against better teams... Anyway, happy we avoided the worst 10 game start in PL history 😅

Generally pretty poor quality match on both sides. - Our best chance was from a corner. Very little from open play. - I assumed Cap'n Jack would fill the LB role in possession but it appears he's been given licence to roam in midfield where he's done... Absolutely nothing good. Nearly played other people in trouble a couple of times. We don't need the extra centre back, we need some pace wide left. He feels like a safety blanket for the manager. - Downes has played some terrible wall passes and passes in general putting other players in bad situations. He really should have figured out some of those don't work in the PL by now. Where is the development? Better to take a touch like Lallana and Fernandes do and draw a player before releasing it. Or he doesn't trust his own 1st touch enough.

Honestly, we've reached a point where I'd be happy with him instead of Martin. He couldn't do much worse and has worked with better coaches / in much higher level environments.