SWLondon Saint

On the silver lining side, lose this and it will officially be the worst PL start in history after 10 games! Draw and we're in a 3-way tie for worst start. Woohoo! - Sunderland 2016-17 and Man City 1995-96 if you were wondering, 2 points, both relegated.

It's not just the players, we also don't play anything like City. Our line is nowhere near as high, and we don't counter press like they do when they lose the ball. They play direct long passes a LOT more than we do too. Also, their defensive organisation is superb, Pep drops people who don't do their defensive jobs. Basically if you gave RM the City team he would still concede an absolute shit ton of goals.

Also, no idea why BBD is on the bench. I was vaguely optimistic for him at the start of the season but he has looked completely lost out there on the left. He seems to be OK battling defenders physically and is a pro shithouser so funnily enough I think he could do a job in the middle, but we've never seen him anywhere other than our in no man's land on the left...

Fraser has looked completely rubbish the whole season tbh. I guess he doesn't trust Sam AA there or Archer with Tall Paul up front which would be my answers, but he does love Manning and Cap'n Jack so this is the most sensible way to Shoehorn them in.

Don't forget Dibling is only 18 - he's not fully grown and his body likely can't cope with PL intensity matches week in week out. Having him come off the bench is sensible tbf

It's the same team as for City but given Everton don't usually press as hard, expect it to look like a 4-3-3 as for Stoke when we're in possession with Stephens in the Bree position and Manning in place of Fraser / Cornet. Why? Who knows, Manning isn't particularly creative there but I guess it is defensively more sound? I guess the theory on the right is AA can run around a lot and defend to let KWP attack on the overlap? As AA presents zero threat to take on and beat people, at least that was the case against Stoke.

I mean, I hate to say I told you so, but... 😅

Maresca also had a much better playing career than Martin don't forget, he played in Serie A / La liga for years and won the UEFA cup with Sevilla.

Why on earth are people writing team lists without Cap'n Jack as the first name on? Have you learned nothing! 🤯

I do wonder how much scouting is done in person now, you could easily just watch every match in most leagues back in the office.

Well, yes and no - the article clearly states that this is on average, over multiple leagues and a long timeframe. It also says that experienced but not very high achieving coaches are generally favoured over less known coaches with potential. So your analogy is dead wrong - for there to be on average no effect, for every Unai Emery, there are not multiple Nathan Joneses, there is just one! And anyway, when you have 1 point from 27, isn't it kind of academic whether a new manager will be worse? You literally can't get much worse.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cq6l2mq23nyo Obviously I know we're not going to get Amorim, but just read this article about him - humble, always trying to learn and improve, and most importantly, with the same squad and players, overachieves. We should be trying to find the next Amorim, not sticking with someone who does none of the above.

100% this. Wall passes are the right pass sometimes, but we play them far too often and actually play ourselves into trouble with them a lot of the time. It's bad habits players have got into from the level below where the tactical side is more lax and the press isn't as well structured. As Convict Colony said above, the players receiving after the first line of the press have to be able to play on the half turn, and Downes isn't that great at it. It has to be Fernandes or Lallana as they're the only 2 in our team who can play that way.

Had another look at the goals we conceded. The first one we absolutely have to compete better on the first ball, it's absolutely criminal. Then Suga had to be more aware there's noone outside him and can let it go. Still no clue what he's trying to do, think a chest to keeper most likely... The 2nd there is clearly not enough defensive communication after the ball is lost. THB starts on Cannon but drifts off him, then Suga is out of position. They did get lucky the deflection on the shot takes it straight to Cannon but still, no-one is near him. The one off the line is a pretty suicidal pass back from ?Cornet? on the right touchline, however THB maybe could be braver to get his body or head in there which would have won a free kick. After that I thought Ramsdale should have claimed it easily as their player took a heavy touch, but somehow it bounces off his chest and nearly in off their guy. Good clearance by Suga.

Yep, seen absolutely nothing from those 3 that justifies them over Sam A-A. Sure he'll make mistakes, he's a kid, but that's how you learn. Not like he could've lost us any more points!

I've said before we're a mess on various defensive aspects, but this is a good point - it could be fitness, but I think it's more likely to be a lack of focus on defensive rigour by the coaching staff. To defend well is pretty similar in many sports and the number 1 thing off the block is you have to really want to defend well and take pride in defending. You can always see which teams do that and which haven't put the work in. And to me, we look like the latter.

I'm still not quite sure what to make of Sugawara. Good in possession on the whole, he makes really good and seemingly tireless runs forward both inside and outside. Seems to have no clue what to do on set pieces and also loses his man outside far too often. Great ball round corner for AA who should have played Archer but closed his own angle and shot. Won the pen due to the defender being naive. No idea what he was doing with their 1st goal. Saved Ramsdale's bacon though with that clearance, that was crap keeping. Would like to see him cross it more but not sure if he's been told not to.

Watching Les play actually makes me appreciate JWP a lot more. If only we'd taken him on loan instead of Cornet and Les.

The only thing I can think of is maybe they're somehow trying to keep possession or something? Like when Aribo got caught on the edge of the box against Forest. Anyway, I've got no clue, doesn't look like the players do either. Even Spain hoof it when it's pinging around the box, just get rid FFS....

That was my first thought too, is he trying to chest it to the keeper or out of play? Bonkers. Only mitigating fact is that it is hard when you're going back towards your own goal with the ball pin balling around which is why most teams don't allow uncontested first headers back into the danger zone 😑

Is this a fact? Because i can't honestly believe anyone associated with the club thinks our set piece defending is working as it should. Something is just completely wrong with the number of free headers / shots.

Literally no idea what is going on with our set piece defending. Why is the first header totally free and unchallenged? What the $@#£ was Suga trying to do? Or was he pushed in which case he has to go down to get the foul, no point in staying on your feet there lad.

He's not really trying to do anything spectacular and revolutionary, there are plenty of other teams and coaches who play possession-based, they just do it better and smarter! Brighton have been the best example of in the EPL other than City, elsewhere you could look at Lille, Weirder Bremen, Leverkusen, obviously Barca and probably Real Sociedad and even the current Spain team. It's not going to result in your Saints World Club Cup dream unfortunately - because if Martin was doing spectacularly well with it, he'd be poached sooner than you can say 'record manager fee'. But unfortunately, he is simply not doing a good enough job. Look at other fairly new first time coaches like Alonso, Amorim, Inzaghi - also all ex players and really making their players and teams improve and really excelling in all aspects of the game. As I said some time back, Martin went straight from playing into coaching, he's reached the limits of his present ability and he just looks out of his depth. I absolutely think he could get better, but I don't think that'll happen in this stint because a) you can't pull yourself up by your bootstraps and b) his attitude does seem to be that he knows best, which isn't usually conducive to learning.

Latest Opta predictions have Leicester staying up with us, Ipswich and Wolves going down.

I don't think he will get a better offer, even though he is clearly aiming to do a Kompany - ie putting his ideals and 'philosophy' above results and leverage that into a better job. Fact is a) he is doing a massive lot worse than Kompany did last season, and b) Kompany has an amazing playing record to fall back on. I think the likelihood may well be the club plans to stick with him through relegation, as Burnley planned to, and hope he actually learns enough and secures promotion again to have a better shot in 2 years.