Corporate Ho

Why not tak the trouble to actually read what I wrote. i didn't say there was any similarity between our owners, nor did I draw any parallels between the levels of debt. What I said was that we're in trouble because our latest owner cannot fund us to the level he agreed with the FL (see that "agreed with the FL) and that if your owners could no longer fund you then you would be in financial trouble too. Nothing about levels of debt, not comparing the owners but comparing hypothetical situation. Sorry if that's too mntally taxing for you FC, I know the figures I quoted are from 2010 because those are the latest actual accounts available so anyone posting anything (you included) is hypothesising. I agree with you that your revenues for 2011 will have increased, including the money for Oxlade – Chamberlain but I still think you’re being wildly optimistic with some of your claims. The last published accounts (from your first year in L1) showed that you made losses of £7.7m on the football side of things (so whoever posted that you’ve been trading within your means since Liebherr took over was patently wrong) and overall, including everything under the holding company umbrella you made losses of £9.0m. Your turnover for that year was £14.2m. Your average gate has increased since that year (according to Granty, I haven’t checked) from 21K to 26K – so +25%. So let’s say your turnover this year will have increased by 50% from the last accounts – a generous assumption? That would give you a turnover of £21.3m. Now, in the last accounts your operating costs for the year were £22m. Wages alone accounted for £12.3m and given the signings you’ve made since them plus the increases that would have been in players’ contracts for achieving promotion that figure must have increased fairly substantially. What about other operating costs? Must have increased from two years ago, wouldn’t you say? So what are they now - £25M? Pushing £30m? Not only that but the accounts showed that you needed to repay £7m to creditors last year so that’s got to be added in too. Not to mention loans from Liebherr that are eventually due totalling over £20m. Of course, you got the £12m transfer money but £3.5 - £4m of that has been spent on Fox and Sharp and Oxlade – Chamberlain would have been on low wages as a youth player, unlike the two who have come in who wouldn’t have come cheap (are those rumours about Sharpe being on £30K a week true?) so that’ yet more money onto the wage bill. What about the rest of the transfer money. You’ve no idea if it went back into the club or if the Liebherr. As for your valuation of the club, do you really believe that the Liebherr’s would sell for £20 -25m when a loan that needs repaying alone is for £20.4m? I’m sure they’re lovely people but they’re not a charity. I’m pretty sure they’d be looking to make a tidy profit on their investment. So I think your valuation is woefully short of what they’d be looking for. Of course you have the stadium, academy etc. (but I must point out that you only own half your training ground), I understand all that but your price seems low. So, do we still think you’re living within your means with no need for input from the Liebherr’s or not?

1. Antonov agreed a business plan with the FL based on him paying the difference between income and expenditure. Antonov was the owner, he could do what he wanted regarding signing players and spending the money. If he had the money and wanted to outbid other teams for players then why shouldn't he - that's what you've been doing, isn't it? All the deals were sanctioned by the FL so why shoudl Lampitt say no? Even if he did, what would happen? He'd probably be sacked. The deals were sustainable all the time Antonov funded it. Just like you, Man City, Chelsea, Wigan, Bolton, Sunderland, Villa (shall I go on?). As for the quality over quantity argument, you're just being stupid. We chose to buy less players of a higher quality rather than a bigger squad of poorer standard. That's not "stupid" that's a strategy. Might go right, might go wrong. 2. No selling players wasn't an "aggressive act". We actually tried to sell players but the players refused to go. Personally I'm glad because even if they had gone we'd have been in the same situation next month, it would have just given AA and Chainrai more time to try and come up with a plan. As it is, it's properly brought things to a head

I see no sense in Pomepy going into admin. It might guarantee Chainrai's status as a secured creditor but of what? The next time wages were due we'd default and the WUP would go in again. To get any money out of the club Chainrai has to fund us to the end of the season and then try and get money from player sales. But any money he made that way would be eclipsed by what he'd have to pay out to get there. In the event of the club being liquidated he gets nothing from player sales and nothing from the parachute payments, leaving him with just Fratton Park and nothing else. So, why wouldn't he sell to someone now if they bid more than Fratton Park's worth to him? It's book value was set at £7m but I'm told that's for tax reasons and it's true land value is no more than £3 - £4m. Even then he'd probably be lucky to get that for it as any developer knows PCC would tie any planning application up in red tape for several years. So, as I've said before, he really needs to sell it now and for a figure way, way below the £17m you lot and UHY have been quoting See my post above. Why would he want to keep it? Clappers, he won't put more money in (if he's ever put any in before which I dispute). So if he doesn't what does he get? Fratton Park that's virtually worthless to him. I suspect we'll get a buyer but it will probably b very late as both sides play a game of brinkmanship. But if we don't get one, Chainrai loses an awful lot of money that he was counting on (the £17m from CSI). As I said above, the most he'll get is £3-£4m. And if he can get more than that from someone prepared to tak on the club why not sell?

Here we go, the old Saints players are marvellous and all Pompey players are mercenaries. Good old Surman, what a trouper. Accepting the massive personal hit of a transfer to a PL club on bigger wages. He should be canonised. PMSL. If you think your players are any different to ours you’re living in cuckoo land Read the latest planning document (from page 62 onwards details the plans for the area around the ground) “3.98 Fratton Park will be safeguarded for use as a football stadium with the possibility for an improved or new stadium.” “3.100 This policy will be implemented through development management decisions and infrastructure will be provided as part of the development. The council is also prepared to use compulsory purchase powers if necessary” http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/Portsmouth_Plan_(adoption)_(low_res).pdf ROTFPMSL. You STILL don’t get it, do you. Chainrai paid nothing for the club. His original “loan” wasn’t to PFC, it was to Al Faraj/ Falcondrone, who, coincidentally, are based in the BVI, just like Chainrai’s company Portpin who made the loan. See anything fishy there? PFC never saw a penny from Chainrai. Do you not gt what’s happened here even after all this time? Yeah, my mistake. I meant to type liquidation, not administration PCC are working with the Trust to ensure that if a phoenix club has to be established then they’ll play at Fratton. Ref the land, see earlier post. Tesco were willing to pay “up to” (as I originally posted) £20m. I assume that figure would have gone down by now but it would still attract a substantial fee. And before Johnnykins start posting about Tesco not building new stores, they’ve cut back on the numbers they’re building but are still building in some areas and Portsmouth is a key site for them. He’s not pumping endless millions into the club. Do you investigative genius’ still not get this. PCC are already talking about CPO’s. How long is he prepared to wait and risk losing it that way? Not saying a buyer will come through in time but it makes no sense for Chainrai not to sell. I didn’t say you were in trouble Gormless, I said IF they pulled out. And for those who have told me you’d be OK because you have assets to sell 1. By selling your best players wouldn’t that leave you in trouble anyway 2. Just how much do you currently owe? 3. What is your current wages to turnover ratio 4. How long will the Liebherr’s continue to finance you? You all seem confident you have no worries, so I assume you can answer the above questions

Both options are doable. Liquidation is extremely doable. But selling the club becomes a much easier if Chainrai is willing to drop the asking price from the £17m he's been looking for. The quesion is how low is he willing to go and is he willing to take a risk that he'll get more out of us being liquidated. I think he's now pretty desperate to sell, the problem is can a deal be done in time. There are interested parties out there but is there enough time left.

Some of the post below is 100% wrong so I've corrected it for you. HTH Wrong and wrong. If a FL club goes into administration the players registrations revert to the FL and they become free agents. Parachute payments are redistributed to other clubs. Which leaves Chainrai with . . . . . . . Fratton Park. He could sell it to devlopers for it's land value (£3 - £4m) but what developer would buy it knowing the council have lready said they'll oppose any move to change it's use from anything other than a sports stadium. Where does Chainrai go now? He could sit it out to the 20th and the WUP and hope it goes his way (does anyone think it will?) he can try and install a puppet owner but that needs him to pump in money to keep us trading to the end of the season (so very unlikely) or he can sell - and this time it's very much a buyers market. Two outcomes. We get liquidated and Chainrai gets almost nothing or he accepts that he's not going to make anywhere near as much out of us as he thought and he sells for good. Either way we're rid of the scumbag. PS: ref Gaydamak's land and a potential sale to Tesco. I'm well aware that PFc don't own the land. Yet. However, Gaydamak has had at least two planning applications for industrial use knocked back by PCC and there is open talk about a CPO once the future of the club gets sorted out under the "assets of community value" bill that's introduced shortly. I'm sure Gaydamak and Chainrai would love to join together and sell the whole parcel to Tesco themselves but once again the whole planning application process would be a nightmare without the stadium included in any plans. As I said 15 pages or so ago, I think Chainrai has badly miscalculated this time.

Err, maybe because when we won the cup we hadn't had a succession of dodgy owners. The procession (Fahim, Al Faraj, Chainrai, Antonov) all came afterwards. HTH By the way, ref the tax bill, have you all complained to your MP about the amount Vodafone are getting away with not paying or are you all a complete bunch of hypocrites? Just asking

Are we toast yet? Just checking with the experts

Oh yes. He got three whole posts on the forum and 24 minures after posting this one before anyone realised it was Johnnykins.

True about them sitting on their arses but if they've only got a year left why not move on to get a two or three year contract elsewhere so they can guarantee they can sit on it some more? As for the infrastructure, we have the land available for a training ground free of charge and Tesco willing to pay up to £20m for land that could be put towards the cost of a new stadium. Also, I'm amazed that none of you investigative genius' have posted about the story oen of the tabloids are trying to get past their lawyers about people involved with PFC at the moment. Have you posted it on a different thread and I've missed it or something?

Answering a previous post: Will you be toast, or do you think that the chancers who run your club, or the bent administrator of CSI, have some ace up their sleeves to gain you a stay of execution? No idea, reckon it could go either way. The biggest issue, as I said before, is whether Chainrai is willing to take a risk that he'll get as much from the club being liquidated as he would from any offer. One offer's on the table which is way below the £18m he wants but is apparently pretty realistic. My heart says he'll take an offer and we'll get through but knowing what a greedy litle ****er he is it could go either way. Love the way you think the administrators are looking out for us by the way. You're so sharp on here guys. LOL [/color]And of course, apart from the debt you list, there is the debt to HMRC, there are the running costs, the inflated player's wages, etc. No ground, no training ground, no land around the ground. What a bargain the club is! True there's the debt to HMRC but running costs can be reduced quite easily. Quite a few of the higher earners only have a year left on their contracts and can probably be encouraged to find another club if we release them (now or at the end of the season). And the offer that's on the table is from a guy whose background means his angle is probably about developing the infrastructure of the club to improve it's value long term The difference is that our wealthy benefactors are respectable business people, ethical, reliable, trustworthy. None of these adjectives apply to any of the past few owners you have had. Furthermore, the level is debt we have is miniscule against the value of assets owned by the club and also against the returns achievable by the return to the Premiership. So our owners are making astute investments, whereas yours were laundering money/picking the bones of your carcase/speculating funds they didn't have. Do you see the difference now? Yes the difference seems to be that if it's Pompey it's cheating but if it's Saints it's fine to live beyond your means because it's "investment". You talk about the level of debt being "miniscule against the clubs assets". What is the level of your debt exactly. You seem to know the figure [[/color]And yet for all your bleating about how other clubs had similar gate receipts and also similar wages to turnover ratios, yours was the first club in the history of the Premiership to go into administration. Yes, because our backer stopped funding us and the bank called in £30m+ overnight. Are you saying that could never happen to you? Or any club for that matter? Also, would you not agree that the player sales we made should have been more than enough to prevent administration, yet somehow the money wasn't available to the club. What happened to it? If the "crooks and puppets" you've mentioned siphoned some out of the club then is it PFC's fault that bills weren't paid?

Sorry to disappoint you with a short post this morning but I was rather busy. 1. I'm not making any excuses. I just keep pointing out various facts and points of view that happen not to coincide with the one sided blinkered view on here. 2. I'm glad you agree that there have been chancers running the club and dodgy dealings going on because that's what I've been saying all along. Has it finally dawned on you? And if that's the case then maybe, just maybe you'll agree that what's gone on isn't the actions of "the club" but of various characters who have used the club to line their own pockets while they bled it dry ywear Do you really not understand after all this time that gate money isn't the prime concern in the PL when each club gets £40m a year from SKY? Not to mention the fact that our gate income was actually a lot higher than a lot of PL clubs anyway, largely due to the fact that many Northern clubs charged way less for tickets than we did. Our turnover the year we won the cup (is anyone bored of me saying this yet?) was £70m. Yes the wages to turnover ration was high but no higher than many other PL clubs. It really isn't rocket science. So crooks and puppets running the club yet "the club" is to blame. Hmmmmmmmm What an absolute crock of ****. See above for our turnover the year we won the cup and compare it to many other clubs. Higher than plenty in the PL. The point is, as I've said many times that when the finances crumbled we sold over £70m worth of players and if that money had been used as it should have we wouldn't be where we are now. The fact that our finances are in the state they are would seem to strongly suggest that someone bled a considerable amount of that money out of the club and didn't pay what was owed. How else would you suggest we amassed the debts we did? As for the pathetic "mercenaries" argument, get over yourself. Players go to who'll pay them the most. Otherwise why would players you've had like Bridge, Walcott, Bale and on and on have left. Why aren't they still with you? I love this argument. All Pompey fans do and think this, all Saints fans do and think that. Like we all move with a hive mind

Exciting, isn't it?

So if we did use the PP's for that purpose that would mean any new owner could use the £1.6m I've included to pay HMRC to pay the CVA shortfall created by using the PP's to keep the club trading. How would that increase what any new owner had to pay? What other creditors are there? Football creditors were all paid from the first couple of PP's. All that's left as far as I can see is SG. Who are "all these creditors not involved in the CVA"? Could you tell me please? Whether he is or not is still open to debate (he exercised a charge over CSI, not PFC after all). However, in the event of liquidation, what is there for him to get? PP's won't be there, they're spread across the FL clubs. Player registrations go back to the FL. He might try and get money there but who would pay a fee for what are essentially free agents? All that's realistically left is the land FP is built on which at current market rates is worth around £3 - £4m. Plus of course there's the possibility of points penalty hanging over us for MM/ HR if found guilty which has got to affect the price offered. Can't see that punishing the club would be fair when it didn't gain anything from their scheme but it is a possibility. What part does everyone disagree with there? (I know you'll all disagree about the points penalty being unfair if applied before you say anything)

Nugent didn't celebrate his goal against us as he did against you last night. Ref your other meanderings, do you really think that if Pompey sell players that HMRC would allow any proceeds to go to Chainrai before they got the money we owe them first? Also, why would anyone need to find £20m to buy Pompey? Let's say Chainrai accepts £5m, what else would a buyer have to pay? The £1.6m to HMRC, small creditors valued at £150 - £200K. CVA is covered by parachute payments. Only other thing I can think of is the money owed to CSI. However, that debt will probably be included as part of the deal to buy PFC and that purchase price will probably include the CSI debt as a peppercorn - maybe £1. So, in theory, depending on Chainrai not being willing to let PFC be liquidated and see liquidators appointed by HMRC meaning he risks getting nothing someone could buy PFC and be effectively debt free (apart from the CVA which is covered anyway) for something like £7 - £8m. What other "toxic debt" am I missing Nick Nack?

Maybe. Maybe not. Every day Chainrai doesn't sell and we get closer to being wound up the closer he gets to getting nothing for the club. Liquidation sees the player registrations revert to the FL and th parachutes distributed to other clubs. The value of the land that Fratton Park is on is about £3 - £4m tops without Gaydamak's land and there's no way Gaydamak would sell to him. Does he take the risk that he'll get something from liquidators as a credtor - especially as any liquidator is likely to be chosen by HMRC or does he sell now and make sure he gets something - even if it's way less than the figure he really wants. One bids already in, let's see what happens girls. PS, Nice work Nuge

LOL. Like Chainrai ever cared anything about the club or did any sort of recruitment drive. We got Kitson and Lawrence because he didn't have to pay for them and didn't care what wages they were on because he wasn't paying. Why would he care. It's like when you lot keep banging on abou him "getting his money back" when he never put a penny into PFC in the first place. For investigative genius' you do seem to miss a lot of the basic facts. I also thought the parachute payments were all gone? I was told that repeatedly on here. You mean there is enough left in them now to cover the CVA? Shock horror. Anyway, nail your colours to the mast girls. Will PFC be liquidated or will someone buy us. Let's have definitive answers please

Sorry girls but I think Chinny has miscalculated this time. For the first time since the **** got involved with us I think he's on the backfoot and any potential buyer now has the upper hand. Next few days will be interesting. Watch any interested parties negotiate that asking price down and down

So you believe Cala when he says we're paying 8 players £31K a week? PS Thanks for last Friday Granty - LOL. Some MOD/ board owner you are ;-)

Not me saying it Granty but quite a few of the posters on the Pompey websites seem pretty upset with him and you know I'm not the only Pompey fan who loks at this board. Feelings are running pretty high at the moment as you'll probably understand Damn. Three posts already. FWIW, rumours are deal to takeover looks like going through next week. Hope that keeps your appetites whetted until then everyone

It's been a busy week all round girls but now we've got Joe "Fantasy Island" Cala out of our systems what have you investigative genius' got to tell me about what's happening next at PFC?

Which is what I've been saying for the past couple of years to you dunces on here. The club has been used by a bunch of chancers like Chainrai to line their own pockets. They're the ones who should be getting the stick, NOT the club. FFS, are you being deliberately dumb or is it just a gift? I've never said we're not linked financially to CSI, of course we're linked to them, they owned us. What I've said is that we're not linked to them like you were to SLH "as one economic entity". The fact that they had the WRC rights proves that surely? And whilst they may have lost them now, the fact is that at the time they went into administration they had more than one business besides Pompey that wasn't dependent on the football club like the rest of SLH's businesses were on SFC. Therefore, we're not linked "as one economic entity" which is why you got a points deduction. I've said all along that the FL may decide to dock us points anyway but banging on about us being "inetricably linked" to CSI means nothing as it's completely different to your situation. Is it really that hard for you to grasp? I don't post on here at weekends, only when I'm at work. I've mad that clear God knows how many times. Shall I write it in capitals for ou next time? a. I did reply. I think the list was originally posted when I wasn't on here but when it was posted up after I started posting again I replied pretty much straight away. Go back and check b. I posted on the main board using another username, posting a load of unbelievable crap saying I was a saints fan that many on there lapped up. hard to believe so many were so gullible but after so many of your lot went onto POL posing as Pompey fans I thought it only fair to balance things out. c. I used my wife's laptop when posting with my "saints" username so the IP address wouldn't be the same as I usually use when at work. OK, I give up, you know better and have a greater understanding of UK law than a high court judge. Simple mistak for me to make really I suppose.

Well, we should see in a couple of weeks if anyone's going to buy us or not, shouldn't we. I do like the "Bournemouth rejected them" line that's trotted out. Eddie MItchell rejected them because there wasn't enough in it for him, not from any moral superiority. Likewise the "people should look at another club" line you trot out. Who exactly? Bristol City kept getting mentioned as a better alternative but they've lost about £20m over the last couple of years and need a new ground. Which club should any potential buyer take on instead of Pompey for the price they can get us for? Anyway, glad to see you gay wavers still being so interested in us. You hypocritical, hand wringing bunch of ****s

Why? The financial plan that was put in place was agreed with the FL based on the investment from CSI. You seem to be forgetting that without the money the Liebherr's are pumping in you'd be in exactly the same position. If we're "insolvent" without investment surely the same has to be said for you? I've never said the WRC rights are worth £30m as Gemmel said I did. I said CSI PAID £30m for them, not that it's what it's worth now. However, the fact that other people are bidding for them surely proves that PFC and CSI whilst obviously linked are not linked "as one economic entity" - that's the key part of the phrase relating to parent companies that you 'tards keep missing. See above - Inextricably linked AS ONE COMMERCIAL ENTITY. We have additional income besides CSI (gate receipts, TV money, commercial) and CSI also have the WRC so we aren't linked as one commercial entity like SLH were. The FL may well dock us points but if the criteria they use to dock you points is applied then it shouldn't be because we're not linked as one commercial entity. It really isn't very hard to understand surely? I got tired of answering the question because I've answered it so many times. Trawl back through and see just how many times I've answered this one or a variation of it. To summarise: 1. I don't believe CSI bought us to launder money through us because we are under strict scrutiny by the football authorities and they had other businesses they could launder money through. 2. People on here constantly say they bought Pompey because it's the dodgiest club, conveniently forgewtting they looked at other clubs before us. 3. I think they bought us because they wanted a football club in their portfolio of sports businesses - hence why they were looking at other clubs before us 4. I think people might be interested in us now because we're available at a pretty much knock down price of about £10m plus the CVA which is at least partly (if not mostly) covered by the parachute payments. At that price we're as good an investment as most in the NPC You are a real whiner, aren't you? I'm not mocking anything. I just fail to see what we've "got away with". We went into admin and got docked the points penalty that's in the rule book. Our owners (approved by the FL along with their business plan) have gone into administration and that leaves us with financial issues (as it would you if the Liebherrs for any reason stopped their funding of you) but we're not in administration (yet) and we're not "inextricably linked as one commercial entity" with CSI as you and SLH were so there's a clear difference. We have a CVA in place and whilst you may not like it the creditors agreed to push their payments back a year so they've agreed to the payment schedule. We apparently have people interested in buying us. Got away with what?