The Kraken

I don't quite understand this thinking of being so averse to technology for goal line decision. The benchmarks for the technology being introduced insist that a decision must be automatically relayed to the referee within 1 second of a ball crossing the line. There are no stoppages in play for a decision to be reviewed; if the ball crosses the line the technology reports it to the referee almost instaneously so that he can either give the goal or play on. I really don't know why some people are actually opposed to that form of technology.

Who has argued against expansion?

Eh? Blatter very publicly started the movement for goal line technology after the Lampard "goal" in WC 2010. Its why Hawkeye and GoalRef have already got through a year of testing and are being narrowed down for final selection in the next few weeks.

Potentially, if money is no object. But there are a few limiting factors. Most notably the Kingsland has a train line behind it, and limited space to build into as it is. Not insurmountable by any means, but any expansion on that side of the stadium is going to be a significant challenge, that's for sure.

Their highest attendance last season was 19,000; their average attendance was 16,625. So what does that tell us?

Spurious argument at best. If it comes down to a factor of cost, and the game is available on the internet, then it will be a factor in whether people choose to go to the game or not.

As I'm sure you are aware it was an average figure I quoted. It could be less; it could be more if we're doing well. And the 2013 deal includes significantly more games per season than the current deal, so more games on TV for all.

8K 4K and 4K were the figures previously quoted that the stadium capacity could be increased to, without knocking it all down and starting again. It was also what the foundations of the stadium etc were designed to. And it simply can't be 48K, for the reasons I just explained (and even used pictorial reference).

With Sky's new deal from 2013, each club will be on television on average 2 games out of every 5 games. So around 15 games per season on TV, and no need to spend £40 or whatever on ticket price. Personally I think that's will be a very significant factor in what attendances we can attract.

OK. I'll accept your 7K on the Kingsland. I think your 3K on the Northam/Chapel is way out, and I'll explain why. In the original incarnation of the stadium it was possible for 8K extra on the Kingland, and 4K on the Chapel and Northam. That assumed that seats on the Northam and Chapel would go back as far as the Kingsland extension. In the new design, they clearly don't. Firstly: This is the view of the Itchen/Chapel corner. I think it shows that the seats don't actually go any higher within the Itchen/Chapel corner itself, and they potentially start to rise from the right hand side of the Chapel. Now, using simple mathematics, if that back line of seats goes straight up to the Kingland level, then that adds half of the 4,000 seats possible in a straight extension, so 2,000 on each side. Maybe a touch more if the Chapel/Kingsland corner is included. However, the back of the Chapel/Northam clearly isn't as high as the back of the Kingsland. Hence the significant step up in the roof, and in the area I've highlighted below. So I think there's actually less than 2,000 on the Chapel and Northam. Using that design, and the original 4,000 seat restriction, and that the seats don't start to go further back in the Itchen corner, I think (even taking into account the rise of seats into the Chapel/Kingsland corner) that 3,000 is mathematically impossible, and therefore that your numbers are rather flawed.

How have you arrived at that figure? I think its mathematically impossible to get to that figure given the restraints we know about (8K potentially added to Kingland, 4K to each of Chapel and Northam) and the limited information in the design.

So what do you think the capacity will be?

Right. I'm really not sure what you're saying. Are you suggesting that there's actually more than 8,000 seats being added to the Kingsland? Or more behind the goals? Maybe if you provided what numbers YOU think the stadium expansion encompasses you might clear it up a bit.

I think you miss the point a bit Pat. It's all well and good playing in a stadium of 45,000. Or 50,000, for that matter. The important factor is, "would we fill it"? And is it commercially viable to do so? Entire speculation is the only answer, of course.

Um, ok. What point are you making?

First of all, your 40K statement. I'm not going to get into it but the proposal has previously been put forward that we sold out 32K in our relegation season, so the argument was made that 32K wasn't big enough then. Without seeing current ticket prices its difficult to ascertain, but I'd certainly speculate that we could potentially fill 40K against the top 2, 3 maybe 4 sides, even with a struggling Saints side. Against the rest of the division I very much doubt it. Your second post; it seems to suggest that because we don't know the answers we shouldn't speculate. Message boards are a forum to do just do that; we've all made some outlanndish statements that have come back to bite us on the arse. I've certainly made a few; I doubted whether Lambert would step up the Championship, and I certainly didn't think we'd go up last season. I was proven wrong, and I'm happy to accept my judgement wasn't good in those circumstances. If you're saying we shouldn't do that, and shouldn't re-examine previous statements or projections, then I think this would be a pretty quiet place.

Ah yes, indeed I read your question wrongly.

I think I posted this on the other thread. as you say hard to tell, but I'm happy to give it a stab. Basically, my benchmark would be the old expansions possible when first building St. Marys, which was a potential extra 8,000 on the Kingsland, and 4,000 each on the Northam and Chapel. From the design, it's very difficult to get a banchmark on just how much bigger the stands are going to be. For a start, the exit points are not really in the correct place (in reality they're much lower down). In any case: I'd suggest the Kingsland is probably not far off the 8,000 extra seats. I'd guess that the Chapel and the Northam don't actually provide a huge amount of extra seats. Certainly not the 4,000 possible if the stand went round at the same level as the top of the Kingsland. In the corners you can actually see a significant step up from the ends to the side. So I'd guess at maybe only an extra 1,000 per end. So probably a capacity of around 42,000 maybe. Like I say it depends how many extra seats we can get in the Kingsland. There seems to be a new "skin" to the stadium, so that could potentially limit the numbers. We also may look to put in corporate boxes, which again could potentially cut down on numbers.

Where have I said the vast majority? I think you're the one who maybe needs to try reading properly.

Utter rubbish. At least one poster in particular was vehemently of the opinion, when posed the question, that stadium work should begin immediately if we have genuinely got lofty ambiotions for the club.

Oh God, MLG is going to have a hissy fit when he reads that!

Without wishing to dredge up this age old argument (because its tedious in the extreme); I'm yet to encounter more than maybe 2 or 3 people who have said we should rule out the possibility of extending the stadium. The vast majority on here seem to agree that there is definite scope for an increase in capacity. The debate has always been into whether there is enough evidence already to justify extending right now (or whether we need to wait and see what our Premier League attendances are first), and then what the potential new capacity of an extended stadium should be.

Perhaps because it's non-committal and ties the club to no promises. SFC have rightly avoided coming out with ridiculous statements akin to "we should be building a new stadium, and we should be doing it right now". The build-it-now brigade will look into it all very differently, for sure, but it's an optimistic and vague roadmap for the future based upon factors which haven't yet been achieved (which is all a potential stadium expansion has ever been up to now).

In other news, Pompey have just announced similar plans...

All looks very nice, although of course much more of a concept that the actual plan. I really like the idea of changing the stadium shape to give it its own identity; and if it involves something along the line of the exterior of the Allianz then great. It looks like the Kingsland will house the majority of the new increased seating, which I would estimate then allows the capacity to go up to somewhere around 40K, maybe a bit higher (judging from the pics alone the Chapel and Northam don't instantly seem to be increased in size to a hugely significant degree. Nice to see though. I've always thought the club must have at least had some concept designs knocked up for what could possibly be achieved in the future so its good a little bit of insight into that.