stthrobber

I agree with Jonah here. Information should not be dangled in front of people without backing up why things were said in the first place. Let's not forget that Mary Corbett is a journalist, and journos by their nature are pretty hard nosed people when they want to get a story. If there are things going on that can sway a fans opinion of those running the club either way, then it should be made public, and presumably assuming that information isn't slanderous or libellous, can only harm the current regime, which is what the majority of fans wish to happen anyway. If Mary Corbett didn't wish the facts to be known, then Dunc was wrong to say anything in the first place. As for Wiseman.......:mad:

I agree with Jonah here. Information should not be dangled in front of people without backing up why things were said in the first place. Let's not forget that Mary Corbett is a journalist, and journos by their nature are pretty hard nosed people when they want to get a story. If there are things going on that can sway a fans opinion of those running the club either way, then it should be made public, and presumably assuming that information isn't slanderous or libellous, can only harm the current regime, which is what the majority of fans wish to happen anyway. If Mary Corbett didn't wish the facts to be known, then Dunc was wrong to say anything in the first place. As for Wiseman.......:mad:

I've just been reading things that were said in articles Steve. I wouldn't portray JP as any kind of villain. I just think he was simply found out as a decent man out of his depth at this level and who, sadly for him, lacked a plan B. Whether he was undermined by Wotte or not I don't know but either way, he wasn't up to the job and should really never have been given it in the first place, although hindsight is wonderful of course. It would have rankled with me if I had managed at a much higher level than my head coach, but I would have kept my gob shut if he had done a good job and proved worthy, but sadly that wasn't the case. IMO Wotte has done nothing yet to show that he isn't out of his depth, since despite JP's shortcomings, he did get some very good and unexpected wins.

You are right in as much as he was part of Lowes "revolutionary" coaching experiment/flirt with disaster (delete as appropriate) But he and JP couldn't stand each other, had never met before arriving at Southampton and therefore it comes as no surprise that things went t!ts up The fact is that we don't know that Wotte didn't speak up before. We just know he didn't go public. Either way, yesterday was a great win and might yet just be the kickstart we have needed, but there is a long way to go

No I never saw Rush before FC. Was hoping for some decent rock chicks at the NEC but sadly for me, Rush is a geeks band

****ed myself at the Hamlet advert, that was very very funny. Never seen that before

Yeah but I'm a rocker by trade and it does my credibility no favours going to see them. List of bands in last year, Y&T, Journey, Rush, Joe Bonamassa, Heaven and Hell and now, er Take That!

They are playing the Millennium Stadium this summer. Sold out in a pair of hours.....and unfortunately for me, wifey got 2 :mad:

But he didn't. He quite categorically stated he would appoint who he wanted as the fans didn't run the club. Hoddle decided not to come back because he knew that he did not have the full support of the board. That decision was taken from Lowe by Hoddle himself

Everyone accuses this club of appointing "the cheap option" and Crouch's tenure was no different. Gray and Wigley might have been the "cheap option"....or more like "the wrong option" but what's done is done. If Moyes had been appointed he would have been greeted by Saints fans as and equally cheap option and not good enough, exactly like Sturrock was by many, and more recently Nigel Pearson. There would have been no guarantee that Moyes could have done a job at Saints under the same constraints as the rest either, he has had far more resources at Eventon than he ever would have done here, but the one plus point would have been that he is nobody's yes man

Well in all fairness, Um's post is based upon the Echo article and as such is surely worthy of debate? FWIW I haven't usually got much time for Simon Carter, but in this article there is little that I can disagree with. Bringing in a foreign coach with little experience of English football and no experience of coaching at a decent level was a big risk dressed up as "revolutionary" I could never understand why Wotte who has a fairly unimpressive CV but at a higher level was not chosen as Head Coach above JP who also has a fairly unimpressive CV at a lower level. According to MLT there were British managers who would have done the job for less money than Pearson was on prior to his contract not being renewed and this was the way forward then and imo still is now.

He did mate, they were buy one get one free, he lost one pair, now he's using the free ones for the rest of the season.

Don't be so soft Tris, do you seriously expect any official of a football club to say to the fans, "don't bother supporting the club any more, it's going down the pan"? So they got severance pay. Big deal. It happens all the time and where some not inconsiderable amounts of cash are involved and legally entitled to, there are very few people around that would waive it in the best interests of the club. The double standards I refer to are those who say they wouldn't do the same, because in my opinion, they would do just that. If you were entitled to £200K you wouldn't turn it down and I think it's churlish to expect anyone else to just because you don't happen to like them. I would question all the d1ck measuring that is going on at the moment between all the 3 major shareholders, the decision to rely on too many kids, the decision to appoint JP and Wotte, particularly when they had never met and didn't actually get on. There's enough there to be going on with

I'm not taking any side here, just pointing out the double standards. Can you show me where "condemn for the blatant f*ck ups that have occurred since Crouch was ousted, the constant stream of spin etc," is pro Lowe? Are you so blinkered that you can only see things from one point of view?

Rubbish. If you were a businessman talking sums of half a million you would put your bank balance first, you would have a duty of care to look after yourself and your family before any kind of business concern that you had been booted out of. It's all to easy to say that you would do this and that but actually doing it is another. All of these so called very rich Saints fans like Trant, Salz and Crouch have had the opportunity to dip into their pockets, but never actually do it. Your little birdy is rather wide of the mark I'm afraid. Several times over the years maybe. I haven't seen or heard from Andrew Cowen for some months. My judgement isn't clouded either, I just think there are double standards here, as I said earlier, condemn for the blatant f*ck ups that have occurred since Crouch was ousted, the constant stream of spin etc, but the only people that would possible waive any kind of pay off would be those to whom half a mill is a drop in the ocean and there aren't such people around here.

To be honest I don't know if that is true or not, but I'm referring specifically to the people on here who condemn without first putting themselves in the same situation. Crouch is very good at saying he'll put up large sums of money, but has he ever actually put in the mythical £2 million? I'm not having a go at Crouch per se, but it's very easy to make yourself look good against an unpopular regime and in this case without any kind of payment

The only way this club will be united again is to be successful and start winning. If you can show me one person who, entitled to a significant some of money contractually when leaving an organisation would say "no, don't worry, I know you're up sh1t creek financially, please keep the money" then I'll show you a liar. The problem with Saintsweb is that the same arguments crop up day after day after day and have done for the last 2-3 years. On this particular issue, I'm not defending Lowe, nor Andrew Cowen, but merely looking at things from a business perspective and thinking what I would do in the same circumstances and it's all very well people trying to take the principled approach as fans, but life is not like that. By all means condemn the appointment of Poortvlieet and "revolutionary" coaching set up, but let's not be hypocrites where money is concerned

I'm sure he could, but he was under the impression that he was going to win at the EGM because Crouch was to vote for him, not against. As it was, Crouch changed his mind at the last minute. No-one is likely to resign if they feel they are going to be successful. I think people are looking for any excuse to have a go at Lowe and Cowen, but in this case, I would challenge anyone who has half a million in the bank to separate business from being a football fan.

Yes, that's fine and I take your point, but what I find a bit rich is that people are having a go when the chances are that given the same circumstances they would not put their hands in their pockets either. If I had half a million to "loan" to a PLC that was close to administration, I'd be a bit foolish to loan it when the chances are that I would lose it should administration actually happen. These guys may be well off compared with us, but they don't have the funds that Russian oil billionaires do and those sums are still significant to them. I would also hazard a guess to say that their return to the club is on very different terms from their last tenures

Irrespective of the club's financial position, if executive directors are ousted from a company and are entitled to a pay off, then unless there is any contractual obligation to do so, why would anyone pay the money back? I wonder how many people on here would actually pay back a huge some of money if they weren't legally obliged to do so? Answer, with the best will in the world, none.

Ah yes, back to the "traditional" methods. It's certainly worth considering

Quite right. You wouldn't convict a bloke of shoplifting because you thought he might have stolen some razor blades, it has to be proved beyond doubt.

It's a huge jump from "getting the impression" to accepting you are right then condemning him for sticking his nose in. However, if by "get the impression" you mean that people inside the club are telling you that's what is happening, then it's a different thing. I agree with you that the footballing side of things should be down to those who know about football. I certainly wouldn't want to condemn Wotte for telling Lowe how to run the club financially.

Why are you telling me this? I just replied to Stanley's question. Of course they are pointless but the question was asked.

Everyone would have been equally as critical as they were when Pearson was appointed (including yourself) by Crouch. It doesn't matter who appointed Portvlieet, he was a big risk and has been found out to be a one trick pony. The jury is still out on Wotte. It's a catch 22 though, we need Wotte to be successful, but if he is and we stay up, then it does strengthen Lowe's position.