Saint Fan CaM

someone will tell you in a minute that it is the fans fault

How long do think Mike? I consider myself an objective type, but I really cannot understand how some can still defend Lowe's position.

That really is speculation and you kno it - at the time the shareprice was 27p - market capiliazation of just over 7.5 million - and there was no interest - none of teh shareholders would have agreed to sell at 27p - and to expect them to do so is churlish and unrealistic.

Why are you so sure an offer would not have exceeded 27p? Why would none of the shareholders have sold at 27p+? (If they knew what we know now they probably would have done f'sure!). If there was a real offer of investment to take the club further, surely the majority shareholders would be glad to help the club move along. And what would stop an aggressive take-over if the right conditions were in place? Fact is that Agent Lowe did nothing and by doing nothing he did everything he could to discourage new investment, even making childish and stupid remarks along the lines of "£25m and its yours..."! He really talked the club up, eh - bit of a Ratner moment there don't you think?

What a responsible chap our friend Agent Lowe is .... NOT!

So this is nothing to do with a PLC chairman's corporate responsibility, then just say so in the beginning instead of making up these fanciful flights.

What?! It has everything to do with the PLC Chairmans corporate responsibility and you know it. Agent Lowe has put himself before the club and the only way of disproving that is if someone comes on here and provides evidence (or at least some hard rumour ) of Lowe's attempt to sell the club to an investor. He has acted as a shareholder and NOT a responsible PLC Chairman - there's a huge difference.

And before you say where's the contradictory evidence, its there for all to see - Lowe is still with us, he's still employing rubbish managers, we are broke at the foot of the CCC and about to be relegated! Get it?!

Where do you get such ******? As PLC chairman, income gradually increased to record levels up to relegation. If you are going to pick a hole with his corporate responsibilities it should be about not maximising profits (or relegation). That would mean far less on players and wages, is that what you are really saying should have happened over these years? As a basis for discussion this is totally ludicrous.

I would suggest that "*******" = absolutely spot on the money. Income gradually increased to record levels - why? Because 12,000 more bums were put on seats in SMS and ate food etc.

Let's assume Lowe did all that he could to take the club to what was admittedly a high with Strachan as Manager - well done. What he then failed to do as Chairman of the PLC was to recognise that new funding was required to take the club further and the ONLY way that was going to happen was to sell the club.

Unless someone can come up with some info that tells me otherwise, it is clear Lowe did nothing to attract new investment by finding a buyer when the club was at its most attractive. He protected his own shareholding and this was Agent Lowes single biggest failure. It is why he is so despised and also why he utterly deserves to lose his shares/control over the club when his 'master plan' finally goes belly up.

I have been pondering over this question. Could Agent Lowe have sold the club years ago when the stock value of the club was at its highest, thus protecting its future and ensuring investment when it needed to push on and improve its 'market standing'? Clearly this did not happen - but why not? Surely as PLC Chairman he had a corporate responsibility to improve the company results? He failed to act when the time was right.

Can anyone remember if there were there any stories flying around about 10-12 years ago about Lowe selling the club?

NB: I highly doubt it TBF because I feel sure Lowe has been in this purely for his own gain (e.g. as a shareholder) and has not exercised proper PLC corporate governance as Chairman.

Just a thought - isn't the club more attractive to investors with more season ticket holders? So by not renewing people might just be making it more likely that Lowe will stay?

 

I'm playing devil's advocate here but while I can understand not wanting to renew because the standard of football is sh!te, as a "Lowe Out" strategy any form of boycott is surely ultimately self defeating?

This club is NEVER going to be sold under the current corporate arrangements - people need to understand this and how Lowe and Wilde are running things. So simply forget the club being bought - it ain't gonna happen (unless we enter administration and the shares are liquidated).

Every single remaining ST holder has a duty to the club NOT to renew EARLY! Sure, buy your ST later if you feel the need, but ignoring the March Madness will send a MASSIVE message of discontent to Lowe, Wilde, all shareholders and most importantly the bank. It could be the turning point in finally sorting the club out before it completely dies at the hands of Lowe and Wilde. Remember, they're in it for their shares and the salaries they draw - they do not care about the traditions of the club one jot.

Simple message - IF YOU LOVE SFC, DO SOMETHING POSITIVE AND DELAY RENEWAL OF YOUR ST!

Mmm, might not see so much of Mr Wilde at SMS in the coming months then? His cosying up to Agent Lowe now takes on a whole new meaning. Snouts in trough comes to mind.

Hi MOG

 

You have a little bit - the thing is no matter how justified we may feel in our aproach if its not working is it not worth trying a different tack? Lowes sees fans as illinformed and lacking teh knowledge - in part becaue of his arrogance and in part because of that minoroity that have always slagged him irrespective of the truth in tehir accustaions, or whether there was any logic in the deciosns made - they did kinda ruin it for everyone else in a way because Lowe refuses to now listen to any of us. Not saying its right, but if we took back teh moral highground maybe we would get somewhere.... not going to happen whilst we simply shout and screem or fight each other on the terraces is it? would you take some of those seriously?

Frank - see what you have written there (highlighted)? Why do you think this concept is something only the supporters should adopt? Do you not think that Lowe has had his chance to change tack? In fact, he's had plenty of chances - 11 if I'm not mistaken - and still he gets it wrong.

I do not suscribe to the notion that all supporters are brain dead morons who don't understand the why's and wherefor's relating to the demise of SFC (and its not because Lowe is a 'toff' - its because his policies and strategies are rubbish). Yes there is a small minority that are idiotic thugs who can't control themselves on matchday, but it is a very small minority. Most supporters I think are very clear about what's going on and many have already turned their backs on the club and walked away.

While Chairman of SLH, Lowe has had a corporate duty to ensure the best results for the business. This (like any other business) means that there are times when it is essential to invest to improve results and protect market standing. Lowe utterly failed to do this. He did not have to borrow huge amounts of money - in fact if he had the best interests of the company at heart he could have sold the club at the point its value was greatest to someone who would have put more money in. But NO - he chose to rule the roost - to maintain his little money stream. AND THAT my friend is the essence of his failure - he has chosen to feather his own nest (because he's a shareholder) in favour of proper corporate governance. How he's managed to get away with it for so long is a question I would like answered.

Back to the OP and not wishing to teach any grandmothers to suck eggs.......

 

Administration on the LSE website simply means that any dealings are being 'written up', followed by EoA (end of administration) meaning that the administrative processes of the day are ended.

Far too sensible a post to be noticed it seems...

Uhm' date=' the problem with Lowe is that he probably feels he is being unjustly treated....no hear me out... I think he probably believes that teh mistakes he has made, are genuine erors that happen to many in sport..especilaly in football where thngs such as players and managers can leave on a whim and leave plans in tatters etc just when corners have been turned... I beliee he thinks that his ideas that have failed to date were designed to address this and that teh failures have been mainly teh result of teh old school values refusing to accept new ideas - so he has isolated himself from these criticisms.... secondly and perhaps more importantly, these criticisma have becomelost/diluted in Lowes circle by many attacks that he believes are unjustified... the speculation, gossip and rumour stuff that is made so very vocal by as he believs is the 'lunatic fringe'. I can see how this may have occurred because of the very vocal element have been naysaying ever since he arrived, and even when we had moderate success....I honsetly believe he feels that he is the victim here and thats multiplied by hi innate stubborness...[/quote']

 

 

Simple question. Do you think Agent Lowe believes that had he taken different decisions regarding his managerial choices over the last 5 years, we might not be in the CCC with the real prospect of another relegation to L1???

 

Because let's face it, if he had backed Strachan with the right level of investment we would not be having this discussion right? The fan-base would be silenced simply by success. What we ACTUALLY have is a situation where Lowe has been proved time and time again to be wrong. Just how many times does a guy need to fail before he realises that it is HE that is wrong? If he thinks HE is the victim, I would suggest he needs to find counselling - and fast!

I can only presume you really did stop attending games this season as you promised, because IMHO the support, given the numbers, has been fairly remarkable.

 

There has been minimal barracking of the players, some wholesome support and until very recently, no protests against the board, as people's support has been channeled behind the players.

 

You were making the same false allegations about our last relegation season, so I can only presume you're on a wind up.

 

 

 

Absolute rubbish, risible and I thought wse had moved on from posting such garbage.

 

A different Chairman could have implemented a number of different strateigies.

 

A different manager could have implemented a number of different strategies.

 

And these strategies could have been implemented within the financial constraints that we have to operate under.

 

Whether they would have been worse, similar or better is up for conjecture, but to suggest our hands are tied, the dice rolled and there was nothing else that could have been done is something out of La La land.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

We might as well just have carried on with Poortvliet if the manager makes no difference:D:D

Great post - what he said.

We have 8 season tickets and were are not renewing any of them unless Lowe goes!

Well done - another example of a truly dedicated supporter that puts the clubs future before himself.

This highlights one of the problems we have at our club.

 

It doesnt matter what Lowe does as even if he does everything right many fans still see him as the problem.

 

This time last season we had Pearson who made our squad run around allot more than we had seen for any of the matches previously. We liked that and he got out support even though the results were not any better than the rest of the season.

 

This time this season we dont have Lowe we have Wotte who has got our squad running around allot more than we have seen for any of the matches previously. We dont like this as the results are not magically better than we have ever seen before and because Wotte is Lowe's choice.

 

I dont actually see Wotte as a manager to get excited about but then neither did I get excited about Pearson. But the least some of us could do is give the same level of support/leway to either manager?

Utter nonsense. IF Agent Lowe had managed to introduce his vision and it had of worked he would have got a lot of support and it would have silenced his critics. I actually believe the supporters have been tremendously generous actually of what has been a disastrous season so far, with ANOTHER sacked Manager (coach) for the squad to contend with - it has only been very recently when Wotte has proven he has nothing different to offer that the real unrest has started.

Pearson inherited a mess of a squad - pulled together a team that eventually started performing and kept us in the CCC.

Wotte has inherited a mess of a squad, but has done nothing different that I can see to achieve better results - NOTHING HAS CHANGED. Therefore, we can all expect to see loss after loss and relegation to L1. It's not rocket science!

Pathetic attempt to divert focus on the extremely poor performance put in (once again) by Agent Lowe and The Quisling. Fact is Agent Lowe had his disastrous plan hatching well before the last match of the season was played. Pearson did not even get a phone call from Agent Lowe...his contract was not renewed.

Lets stick to what has actually happened eh? And the impending 2nd relegation in 6 years (after 27 year in the top flight) that is looming large thanks to Agent Lowes failed strategies.

He who laughs last and all that.

 

IMHO he is the kind of manager who would kick our prima-donna's arses so hard that they just might make us eat our words.

Tony Adams' red'nwhite army.

 

Actually, I am a firm believer that when he joined us, 'arryt had already 'made hgis point' and was simply going throught the motions. We could be the making of Tony Adam, but it could not happen in the current climate.

Oh dear - is that how low we've sunk? Wishing for P*mpey rejects? Some people don't learn - there's a good reason he's been sacked...it's because even with a hugely expensive squad, his team play sh1t and don't win games. Now how do you think he'd get on with the current Saints squad made up of no-hopes? And anyway, every time I see the guy he looks and sounds defeated - I couldn't stand having that loser as our Manager.

We had twelve season tickets in our group, this season that dropped down to eight ! I have now spoken to all eight people and not one is going to renew until Lowe and Wilde have gone. I have had my season ticket for over 20 years enough is enough. We are all willing to disclose customer numbers if this helps in anyway ?

Fantastic - that's the spirit. This is just what is needed to oust Lowe and Co. Starve the bank account and send a big message to whoever is listening that Agent Lowe and The Quisling are no longer wanted.

Agent Lowe and his wacky, idiotic plans to revolutionise CCC football with outdated 1970's tactics have put the final nails in the SFC coffin. Let's get rid of the two of them and the other bloodsuckers for good - ST HOLDERS UNITE FOR A BETTER FUTURE!

Even if P*mpey are relegated, there's every chance we will not be playing them next season. Shame - would have seen a few more punters through the turnstiles Rupert to keep you in your job. As it is, they will come down as we try to recover from administration. Funny old world - Agent Rupert really has destroyed this club for the blue few.

Bump...

I agree - but then I had already opened a thread on exactly the same topic...

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9584

Not sure why you would not wish to respond on that one but hey ho. ST holders are the key players in whether Lowe stays or goes...let's stop this madness.

Thanks for the reply guys. Like most, I cannot see any other way to oust Lowe than to starve the bank account. I would like to propose to all ST holders to wait until AFTER March madness and early bird to renew. This will hurt Lowe and Wilde, but not necessarily hurt the club long-term. With Lowe and Wilde gone and a decent managerial set-up in place, I feel sure fans will flood back in to support the club and ensure survival financially.

ST HOLDERS ARE THE KEY - LETS WORK AS ONE - LETS GET LOWE AND WILDE OUT!

(If you want to renew then do so, but do it late - not early)

Even if we win the next two games, I think we're unlikely to be out of the drop zone and that is a massive blow pyschologically, that's my main worry.

 

We haven't won back-to-back games all season.

And here you have hit the nail on the head. We need a very big turn around to take enough points and its not there in the coaching/managerial side of things to make the change. I think if Pearson had been left to get on with the job, we might have stood a chance this season, but to change the manager once again was a MASSIVE mistake by Lowe - to do it twice was tantamount to killing the club. We're down and possibly out.

I was thinking about the timing of the early bird and what the implications to the club might be this year.

I have decided not to renew my ST - certainly not at early bird time and probably not until Lowe/Wilde/Wotte leave the club (which could be a long time). I think there are possibly many others like me which means that revenue from ST's could plummet. If this happens AFTER the March deadline for posting administration, we could be in the brown stuff big time next season.

So I wondered whether the club might offer early bird even earlier this year to get an early picture - likely or not?

Incidentally, I think not renewing at early bird will send a MUCH bigger message to the PLC Board and the bank, than marching through the City (not that that was a bad idea).

We are not going into administration - Lowe will not let it happen as he cannot afford to be tarnished as a failed PLC CEO in the City. And his ego will not allow it. He will sell or cut-back as much as he can before admin comes knocking. I wonder whether the early bird offer will come a little earlier this year? Otherwise a lack of take-up in ST's (leading to big hole in finances) will not be known until too late to act. We will end up in L1 and be faced with a devastating scenario that will make the current situation look rosy.

Those pics are very, very good!

Putting off the inevitable...