JackanorySFC

No problems admitting I know people that work hard and earn less than me. The great thing is they never moan about it, and say it's unfair, they're happy so crack on. My missus is a teacher, she'll happily admit my job requires far far longer hours, has more stress and is in a much less supportive environment, that's why I get paid more. In my experience those that don't have either the skill set or ambition to get a better job that pays higher thus ensuring a higher quality of life for themselves a d their families are the ones bleating on about "fairness". I make my own "fairness" by getting up at 5.30 and commuting to London every day rather than getting up at 7, doing a cushy job that gets me home before 7 at night so I can come home to my missus and moan about how "unfair" life is. Get over it, work harder get rewarded and help this country get back onto it's feet after 13 tears of failed wealth redistribution that only resulted in higher gap between the rich and the poor!

Those saying fairer societies are happier. Why after 13 years of labour did the gap between the rich and poor get greater? I only ask as those saying this keep referring to the Tories and how that is a Tory policy? I dont think that's fair as it was Labour that created the increased separation over a long period. Have to admit I dint subscribe to this fair utupia, simply because I work hard to ensure I get paid more to do nice stuff, why should someone who doesn't work as hard as me get stuff as nice as me?

Will be doing my bit at the rise bowl tomor at the bar to pay the students of our fair city mush!

Shurlock you seem far more intelligent than me, always wondered: would the Tories have allowed the banks to get in the state brown did? Genuinely interested as a life long labour voter I changed to the Tories as I thought labours policies led a risk encouraged strategy with the banks that dripped down into large swayths of society?

Glad to hear so many of you share my thoughts gents. The Internet has a future for me after all!

About 5 posts ago you ridiculed my maths with an air of superiority pal. Those in glass houses etc...

Cheers for confirming your pays going up, lucky you! Obviously i knew this as the guaranteed pay rises are why my gf is a teacher, obviously us in the private sector are immune to inflation so don't have pay cuts in real terms. Can't be a teacher, left college at 17 and moved to London. Would love to be a teacher, got huge respect for teachers, but I need to suffer my work to pay fir half term skiing holidays, and 2 week breaks in the summer and some autumn sun in October (seriously), after that my holiday runs out, my missus keeps laughing at the fact I'll be working over Xmas and Easter to pay fir everything else but that's life?

How have I missed the point? I've repeatedly asked you if you are going to get paid more in September than you are now? MSP2-3 is an extra £1300 a year isnt it? Result you've had there fella! Here's a fact of life for you, believe it or not us lot working 15 hour days with little job satisfaction other than knowing our wages pay for the armed forces, nurses and teachers of this great country, get pay rises based on performance too. Wow, bombshell eh? Only thing is, in 08, 09 and 10 even if you were marked top 5/5) you didn't get any pay rise. Only this year thanks to a return to growth have rises returned, the top tier being 2%, on a salary of £30k that's a whopping £600!

VFTT where have I criticised teachers career choices? Please point out a single sentence where I've done that and I'll hold my hands up? As the son, nephew, cousin and boyfriend to teachers I would never do that as I know how hard they work and the amazing fulfilment they get from it too. However.... We (us working, sorry to ram this home over and over, far far longer hours with more stress, less holiday and far far less job security without a pension to **** in) slightly begrudge those not willing to work longer, as we do (and I guarantee I'll be working til I drop, no choice as my companies pension scheme was Phased out 3 years ago) without complaining. Those saying how hard they work in the summer, I simply want to know if they'd swap those marking days they are at pains to point out they do for the average holiday of someone earning £21k a year - is 20 days+ bank holidays?

Why is it always left v right? I come from a staunch labour voting family and I voted for them in 97, 01, and 05. It's common sense vs unrealistic and unsustainable ideology surely?

Why, check out the poor teachers "honestly I do work for x weeks in the summer and part if Christmas and a few days over Easter".... Quick question: How much more would you need to get paid for you to be happy with 20 days (+bank holidays) like the rest of us that NEVER do a minutes work beyond 9-5 (I must gave missed a trick there as I've been up since 5.30 and just got in - because my above average wages need to pay for your 12 weeks and my gf's skiing hol in feb 1/2 term).

So your a 25 year old teacher that isn't going upa grade in September? Seriously, your salary isn't going up in September?

I know, I'm the son of a deputy head, cousin to a head, nephew to 2 secondary teachers and boyfriend to an NQT. None have heard of more than 1 or 2 cases where teachers dint get their grade upd in the summer. You need to be seriously out of line not to get it.

Have to admit I doubt she'd have bothered if her PGCE was unpaid and her NQT was 50% - As much as I love subsidising the public sector that's a little too close to home....

That takes the p*** tbf. At the mo PGCE students only get £600 a month and next year get sod all. The hours worked in PGCE and NQT years are well worth £21k. However that doesn't stop the reason for my post - the pension is too generous for this country to afford and striking will only turn people against teachers.

My girlfriend. She has a 1st in one area of science and a masters at merit level in another science area. There are no jobs in science at the moment so she fell back on teaching and is a NQT in Science at a Hampshire School. It suits future family life, pays not great but it gives huge job satisfaction and the holidays amazing (I know everyone always says this but be honest - it is) As for "the City creating wealth" - of course it does. I have mates that work far far harder than my girlfriend, get paid far far more, miss their kids growing up hardly sleep and make their companies huge amounts of cash and through their taxes pay your and my gf's wages (as well as 2 nurses, 2 fireman and a policemen from his PAYE alone). What is wrong with that? The lads that are brokers get paid based on money they make, if they mess up they get sacked and their company employs someone better.

Utopia that....

Completely unacceptable! Especially when your out with curruptibles ;-) Pompey away is like the Titanic as it's sinking - no place for Women or children....

I did take her to Sheff Weds at home 2 seasons ago but she got bored. Like you she pestered me to see what the fuss was about and I had the mostboring day out at football I've ever had! That's no reflection on her but (by her own admission) she knows nothing about football.....

Just looking at the thread re West Ham away and wondering what the score is with the average working man and his missus these days at football? Personally my missus hates football, moans at me going to home games, kicks off at me going to away games, doesn’t understand why the FA Cup is special (let alone the JPT), and sulks when I’m watching England or a Champs league game on the tele… And I wouldn’t change that for the world! For me going to football is about abandoning my day to day responsibilities and taking all my stress out on whatever is going on the pitch for 90 minutes and in the pub before and after. Taking her along would genuinely ruin it’s biggest “USP” my chance to just be a bloke. I’ve got a mate or 2 that go with their missus and fair play to them, I just can’t understand that though? I’m happy to put up with the moods, sulks etc (and she wouldn’t swap me for a pansy that buckles at every quiver of the lip before trying to force a sport she doesn’t want to understand on her) for that moment when Lambert equalizes against the skates and I can go berserk for a minute or 2 losing myself completely! Footballs a family game these days, that’s great and I’ll take a son if I’m lucky enough to have one, whilst my daughter, if I’m lucky enough to have one, can go horse riding or shopping with her mum.

I was responding to a 25 year old teacher that said she hadn't had a pay rise in 2 years, however with the MPS scale you move up roughly £1500 a year (or 7%) - that's quality and one of the reasons I'm so happy that my missus is a teacher - guaranteed (unless your crap and get held back a year before your grade goes up) pay rises in a recession! Oh, two of those 70 that were weighed off are now teachers. They saw it as easy money with good holiday in a respectible job that is massively rewarding - don't get me wrong it's bloody hard work, she gets up 6 and works til 7 (however, in the private sector I get up at 5.45 and get in at 8pm but that's life) and deals with some grotty little herberts, but she loves it!

Point A - apparently. You don't think we have a deficit? Seriously????? Not sure I should bother to continue if that's what you think but hey ho.... Point B - Our Pensions are outlined by the TPS (Teacher Pension scheme). Why don't you read it? Can't be bothered, bit like I couldn't be bothered to read the small print of my contract that has been changed twice in 8 years and next week will be changed again. We live in a different country to the one 8 years ago and I have to adapt. Point C - Our wage rises have been suspended for at least two years. So your a teacher that hasn't has a pay rise in 2 years? You (with all respect) are either a terrible teacher and havn't gone up a grade each year or your making that up.

LOL 20% during a recession, try 120 down to 50 (by my maths roughly 60%) here and no ones moaning, just working harder and longer... Anyway, that's what we've all been through fella but none of us are striking, just quietly getting on with work thankful we've got work to be getting on with. Why don't you understand this? Oh, next Friday we are being presented our latest restructure (first since 2008) and more jobs will go, oh well, work hard, don't go sick and keep your chin up I say! 20% - we wish!

Because we are all too busy trying to earn our companies enough money to pay for the bloated public sector.

Very true, my missus said last night how she was told what an impact it would have if teachers went on strike “would actually bring the country to a standstill”. Declining the invitation to explode, I held it together and counted to 5 before giving her the inalogy of my workplace – two of my team will have to be off to look after their kids, dropping our productivity by 40% and effecting their (and as their manager, my) pay levels (and in turn tax they pay to the exchequer) and our profits as a business. This would make the country even skinter – cheers!