The9

If only you'd actually read it. I'm more interested in whether Sigurdsson has actually signed that Swansea contract, if their manager's about to jump ship to Liverpool. Then again, he'd be more likely to sign for Liverpool then, wouldn't he ? As it happens, I have no idea if Rodriguez has pace from my vague recollections of him not being as effective as Charlie Austin against us last season, but if we're signing him as a Prem team, I bet he has.

I prefer to use it as a reference tool when something new happens in order to preserve my tenuous sanity.

And which lawyers do you think are going to represent a club that defaults on all its payments ?

No they didn't, they got those penalties for a variety of different reasons, and none of them were for just starting a season whilst in administration. Luton got done for not having a CVA and financial irregularities (PROVEN ones). The FL rules are clear, there is a punishment for going into admin, and there is a punishment for not coming out of admin with a CVA. There is also a punishment for being in admin for too long, and the Skate Cheats haven't broken that one either. The Football League (nothing to do with the FA) are being perfectly consistent, and they also had nothing to do with Chester's penalties, which were in the Conference and WERE administered by the FA. This is a complete non-story.

That's probably true, it was notable that the Rangers fan I was suddenly not speaking to wasn't interested in explaining himself, and his mates weren't exactly trying to go into the detail either. Much simpler to just ignore that you don't really have a justifiable reason, it doesn't involve much thinking.

We have different interpretations of "nazi apologist", clearly. If you are denying someone is a nazi when their behaviour is marking them out as one, you're covering up their intentions by making excuses for them, for whatever reason. I've actually never said anything about preventing countries from hosting, though I do think UEFA should be being a lot more strict about what's permitted having already awarded the tournament. I'm also not sure how "using a bit of common sense" is applicable when sitting quietly in the home end and suddenly being attacked by "fellow" home fans, unless by "using common sense" you mean "don't go if you have a different skin colour", and is that a message people should be fine about ? The stuff about ultras not attending matches is speculation, and even if they're not in the ground that doesn't mean they won't be around looking for targets, it's the ideal opportunity for a bit of publicity for whatever message they're trying to promote. What I want to know is where are all the documentaries about the topless feminists ?

Good, then you'll forgive me for thinking that Sharp will get more matches than Lambert in the Prem for Saints next season because he's more likely to fit a successful gameplan (and less likely to get injured) than Lambert is, which was the point of all this on a thread about Rodriguez (who also arguably might be a more mobile target man with some pace). I'm not saying I think Lambert's crap, I'm saying we have other players better suited to the type of team that's more likely to be successful. Along the way, that has necessitated highlighting some of Lambert's weaknesses, the most obvious of which is pace and the ability to create something from nothing by going past defenders.

It'll take a lot less time around here if I pedantically point it out every frigging time someone says it. At the VERY least it'll lead to everyone consciously thinking about what they call it before sarcastically using Premiership, and that's good enough for me.

Michael Owen was ONLY a decent striker when he had pace. Didier Drogba is still pretty rapid, though he has slowed, hence him no longer being an automatic first choice and not getting the new 2 year contract he was after. Ruud van Nisterooy was one of the sharpest, quickest players over the first few yards in the box, and rarely linked play outside the area in the way Lambert did so he was already there for the tap ins - and he was STILL much quicker than Lambert is. Great examples. FWIW, I agree about timing, but it doesn't matter how great your timing is if you're not fast enough to get there in time.

So you've come up with around 20 of them from 20 years, a lot of them aren't even strikers, and even a few of those are pacy. Can you see why I think not having pace is an exception not a rule ?

Is that how they've managed to operate a much more efficient capitalist model than Rangers ? Interesting anyway, though I'm still pretty sure that Rangers fan who stopped speaking to me in Amsterdam (about 3 rounds in) after I mentioned that I wasn't religious but that my (now late) nan was a catholic wasn't doing it out of loyalty to the status quo. To be fair, it's not like he tried to explain himself either. I was properly shocked by that, even after an all-dayer it still phased me that people actually behaved like that. Good job his 5 mates were slightly more sensible about it and just moved him away.

Would you not regard that as an fairly insignificant splinter of the main issue of religious bigotry between Catholics and Protestants though ? How many Old Firm battles stem from Marxists having a pop at the institution ? And how do they justify their own role as supporters of a similar institution ?

I thought I just did point out some nazi apologist posts. I'm not talking about holocaust denials, I'm talking about people claiming the nazi salutes weren't nazi salutes and implying that's ok. I said I think it would be reasonable to advise that there had been riots and certainly there have been attacks on lone asian students in London with or without riots. It is all about the context, and I think the Euro 2012 report was adequately illustrating some of the things that have happened and the similarities between that and the environment likely for Euro 2012. The football stadium and it's surrounding area is also a much smaller area than "London" generally, so in terms of likelihood, proven attacks and racism over a sustained period in Ukrainian football crowds (and the specific incidents shown) are more representative than rioting footage from London, which has happened once in 30 years. I guess we're just differing on what our expectations are of these kind of tournaments. It may well be the case that there aren't any nazi groups targeting outsiders at Euro 2012, but the BBC has certainly shown it is a significant possibility.

Same question as above. I'm aware of St Pauli's "alternative" culture (and their sausage train). I don't doubt there are Marxist v Fascist conflicts, but we know from the er, control of the means of media production, that there's fascist football violence when there's no obvious target too. Is this where the whole argument breaks down into one about media bias (I see dune skipped ahead a chapter) ? But really, Celtic v Rangers is primarily a marxist ideological issue ? There was me thinking it was all about religious bigotry.

But are there Marxist hooligans when there aren't Neo-Nazi ones ? Genuine question.

My pleasure, it's my new "thing".

Oh come on, Crouch is unique, and we all know his ability to reach headers others just can't get to, and bring down and link high balls which can't be intercepted is a massive part of his game, and one that Lambert doesn't have. And Crouch scored 10 league goals last season in 32 appearances. That's not exactly amazing. Who are the others in this list who can't run past a defender and make their own chances then ? Yakubu's a goal-hanger and I can't really explain his success, but the rest of this list is dripping with fast players... plus Crouch, Grant Holt and Frank Lampard. 1 Robin van Persie 30 Arsenal 2 Wayne Rooney 27 Manchester United 3 Sergio Agüero 23 Manchester City 4 Clint Dempsey 17 Fulham 4 Yakubu Aiyegbeni 17 Blackburn Rovers 4 Emmanuel Adebayor 17 Tottenham Hotspur 7 Demba Ba 16 Newcastle United 8 Grant Holt 15 Norwich City 9 Edin Dzeko 14 Manchester City 10 Mario Balotelli 13 Manchester City 10 Pap'ss Cissé 13 Newcastle United 12 Steven Fletcher 12 Wolverhampton Wanderers 12 Danny Graham 12 Swansea City 14 Jermain Defoe 11 Tottenham Hotspur 14 Rafael van der Vaart 11 Tottenham Hotspur 14 Frank Lampard 11 Chelsea 14 Daniel Sturridge 11 Chelsea 14 Luis Suarez 11 Liverpool 19 Javier Hernández 10 Manchester United 19 Peter Crouch 10 Stoke City 19 Peter Odemwingie 10 West Bromwich Albion

I'm sure they'd be reporting on marxist-driven football hooliganism if only it existed.

I feel it wouldn't actually be misleading, provided it was based on actual footage and in context, which the 2012 report was. Have you not ? There are a number of "they're not nazis, they've just got an itchy armpit/doing a zany arm dance" type responses on here, conveniently ignoring their proximity to swastikas and anti-Jewish slogans, linked to the violent attacks on those with different coloured skin also shown in the documentary. Even if they're not doing 100% identical nazi salutes, their intention is to present themselves as affiliated with those ideas. Same as the Lazio fascists, who have a mildly different political agenda, but it's not like fascism and nazism haven't been linked before. And I know Griffo's just parroting what some not very rounded grown ups have told him, but he really needs a context for all of his wannabe hoolie tendencies before he gets himself into some actual trouble, rather than just swallowing whatever bullsh*t some thicky "Der tukkin ur jahbs" bloke told him during "This Is England" once. Mocking people for being bothered by this kind of stuff just makes it more difficult to prevent, and are (Godwin's rule is difficult to avoid in this context) exactly the sort of warped justifications encouraged by Hitler's propaganda to get support and acceptance from the masses for his abhorrent policies. Not surprisingly there's a context of ignorance, intolerance and poverty underpinning the whole thing - it's always easier to recruit the disenchanted to a "cause".

Sitting them down and watching videos of the top tier of English football from 1993-2007 is one thing, but I don't know how that's going to help them play in the Premier League 5 years later ?

I agree with this.

That is a tremendous point Roger, I have now changed my mind and agree with everything you say, as you have supported it with such a strong argument.

Thanks for proving my point. Lambert isn't Rooney, so he won't score a shedload of goals playing as a false nine OR in the hole as a number 10, because unlike Rooney he doesn't have the pace to link play outside the box AND then get into the box to attack crosses - at least not without our midfield wasting time to allow him to get there, which also allows the defence to reorganise. Precisely the point I'm making. He doesn't have the pace to do both. Rooney can also beat players himself which isn't one of Rickie's strengths - hell, even Gazza couldn't get past people by 1998 because he'd lost his pace to capitalise on the initial dummy and get away from the challenge. At a guess I'd say Lambert's assists are predominantly headed knockdowns. And no, that's not how we play, but I'm not sure we're quite up to keeping possession for 60 minutes at Old Trafford yet.

Rickie Lambert is no Teddy Sheringham, who played almost his entire career at the top level, won a European Cup and was part of England's most successful team in 40 years. Also, Sheringham is an exception, not the rule. You can count the successful paceless strikers in the Premier League on the fingers of two hands over a 20 year period. As I've already said, you don't need pace but it makes it a damn sight easier when you do have it. Defenders have to defend against you running past them with the ball as well as just holding you up until you pass it or blocking a shot, it makes their job much more difficult. If you've got pace and the striker doesn't have, you know you can recover without getting punished immediately if you make a positional mistake so you can concentrate on stopping the stuff you know they can do.

He all but agreed terms with Leicester in January as well, so I doubt it.