um pahars

I can accept that not having sympathy for NI could be deemed a valid viewpoint, particularly if he hasn't apologised for the Silverspoon's debacle. However, doesn't that make the lack of explanation and/or apology from the Club just as poor (if not worse given their own Supporters Charter & standing in the Community)? Surely if we're going to criticise NI for his failings in not apologising, then the Club, who should be even more responsible and professional, can be criticised for the same failings?

Indeed, and my response was in the context of responding to the question "how do we know that no explanation has been given?", which the IFO report clears up and confirms he (and others) hasn't.

Personally, I would have followed the path that NI followed in that I would have tried to contact the Club direct first, then tried mediation (maybe even approached a friendly face on the inside e.g. Luker when he was there), the League and finally the IFO. If I was convinced I had done nothing wrong and had been unfairly treated I certainly wouldn't just roll over and them let them treat me like dirt. Why should I let them make my watching of Saints awkward (arranging tickets for 23 games, paying a fair bit extra, not guaranteeing I could sit with my mates, losing ST benefits etc) for no good reason? As for getting someone to buy a season ticket in their name for me, then I'm not sure I would take that risk as there would be every possibility of the Club finding out that the ticket has been transferred and therefore in breach of the terms and conditions, meaning they could revoke that one as well (presumably without the refund!!!).

Has Nick gone crying to the media?? Firstly he contacted the Club on numerous occasions (don't remember any publicity about this) but received no response to his complaint. He then sought assistance from the Football League, once again I don't remember any crying to the media. He also sought an opportunity for a mediation meeting which was rejected. Only then did he follow the correct protocol in involving the IFO (who publish their findings in the public domain) and I still haven't seen what I would call "crying to the media". If anything I would argue NI has kept his counsel on this one and followed the correct protocol from the start.

I said something similar in my first post on this thread, as like many quasi legal rulings, some of the language, terminology and syntax can be hard work. My thoughts on your specific points would be: I read this that there is no appeal against the findings of the report and whatever its conclusions are then those conclusions have to recorded as being final. However, due the limitations on its powers it does not have ability to make any of its recommendations binding. Don't see any dichotomy there, they are two distinct issues. I think they are more than happy to say that they were given access to the Club Officials who co-operated with them. I wouldn't say that the failure to answer one question to the IFO's Satsifaction would be worthy of stating the Club did not co-operate in the investigation. Once again I think the IFO are clearly recognising that whilst the Club does indeed have a legal right to refuse anyone, they also believe that this power should be exercised reasonably and in conformity with the good customer care philosophy extolled in the Club's Supporters' Charter. I think they are merely stating that if the Club is to have such a Charter (I think it's a pre-requisite of League membership), then it should be adhered to, and in their opinion the best resolution for this issue would be to withdraw the ban on purchasing a ST. I have to say I do think this is somewhat below the belt. If we don't like the decision then let's have a pop at the court is a tad myopic. The IFO was established by the three main English footballing bodies, along with Government support, and this individual has 10 years experience of dealing with issues of this ilk, so not sure I agree with that cheap shot.

Well actually the IFO report states, "The complainant ...... has never had a substantive reply from Southampton FC." Wouldn't have thought they would put that there if he has received a reply. "The Club had by no means explained its actions even to the Football League" So the league never got an explanation either. "Despite this reassurance that “Chatham House rules” would apply, the officials could not explain to the IFO’s satisfaction why the Club had taken the action" Neither did the IFO get a direct answer either. Furthermore, "The IFO enquired why no reason had been given to the complainant and suggested that, even at this late date, a letter could be sent to the complainant stating in general terms why the Club, possibly temporarily, had chosen not to extend to the complainant the privileges associated with season ticket ownership. This would at least address one part of the complaint, that no communication had been sent to the complainant explaining why he was subject to the season ticket restriction. Club officials agreed to consider this option. " Which clears up that the Club have yet to communicate to NI (or anyone else) their reasons for doing so. Your point has been raised by a few people now, and all I can suggest is that people read the full report as the report negates some of the suggestions that are being put forward on this thread.

Can we criticise the Club for the second of the two issues considered by the IFO, namely "the way the complaint was handled.". On this the IFO report: "The latter is fairly straightforward ........... It is patently obvious that Southampton failed to fulfil its Charter pledges, either in the timescale of its indirect response or in explaining the reasons for its actions. The way it handled this complaint hardly reflects the statement on the Club website that “listening to our supporters is vital…and we are taking this process very seriously”. " The IFO finds that the Club was in breach of its Charter in the handling of this complaint and recommends that the Club apologises to the complainant and explains to the Football League how it proposes to uphold its Charter in the future."

I would argue that it is the actions of the Club that have brought about this sorry affair that has got all the tongues wagging.

Call it a lucky guess, but I reckon they well have been his fellow Saints fans. Of all the wild guesses about why his ticket has been revoked, I have to say his "abuse of power" and "undemocratic" actions as Chairman of the Saints Trust or his role in the Silverspoons debacle have to be the two wildest. If either of them turn out to be the justification then (a) I'm a banana, and (b) Cortese really has lost the plot on this one.

I think you may have missed the point. Your criticism of NI in this regard may well be valid (as might be the criticism of the Silverspoons debacle), but to try and link this to his season ticket being revoked is, how would you say, bonkers.

You would have to be a toal ignoramus to think that the Silverspooms debacle had any association (even indirect) with the Club. I bet the bloke who organised the JPT coach I went on has gone in to hiding!!!! If you see anyone in a Groucho Marx get up at SMS for the next match, I bet that's him.

I'm surprised, that like many others, you are bringing in somewhat irrelevant issues in to this thread. If you (and others) want to start a thread on how much NI is a c*** and debate his many failings, then fell free. However, I'm unsure how the Silverspoons debacle and his perceived abuse of "power" fit in to this thread. If those individuals who feel ripped off at Silversppons want to have a pop at NI feel free, and if those who think his role at the Trust is wanting then feel free, but I find it hilarious that either of these issues could be considered as a justification for revoking his season ticket. That bloke whose coach I went on should be worried, as should Granty, Daren Wheeler etc who get quoted in The Echo. LOL

Then it's disappointing that the Club do not take up this obvious solution and even more disappointing that as the IFO point out, the Club appears to be prepared not to honour its pledge to its supporters.

So are you saying that because Nick states/or is quoted as being a representative of the fans, then that is sufficient reason to get his season ticket revoked?

Enough to revoke your season ticket?? I hope he doesn't read this forum given the ferocity of opinions that sometimes permeate on here.

I think only the Club can tackle the route cause of the issue and they appear to have failed to do that. What obvious solution are you alluding to? Will be interesting to see what happens next if the Club refuses to adopt the suggestions from the IFO (namely an apology and a reinstatement of NI as a season ticket holder). The FA, Premiership and League back the IFO, so it may be that Clubs are asked to abide by their rulings (in a gentlmenly way as opposed to mandatory way). In which case I have to say the Club has a duty (as the IFO points out in reference to their own standards) to let him know the reason and the IFO are fairly critical of the Club over this.

To be honest, in a dispute between two parties who are probably entrenched in their own views, I would rather believe an Independent Third party whose whole raison d'etre is to investigate and rule on these kinds of disputes.

You might have a hunch and your hunch may be spot on or a million miles off. If you knew, then perhaps you could review the reasons why and perhaps apologise, explain yourself, try and make amends, try and get a mutual resolution or take it on the chin, or alternatively you could counter the reasons. But to not be told, not to tell the Independent Ombudsman and to string someone along is somewhat unprofessional, maybe unethical and certainly not up to what I would expect from my Club, indeed, it is not what the Club says it can expect from them. As the IFO stated, "this complaint has revealed clear and stark evidence that the Club was remiss in handling the complaint" combined with "It is patently obvious that Southampton failed to fulfil its Charter pledges, ............ in explaining the reasons for its actions. The way it handled this complaint hardly reflects the statement on the Club website that “listening to our supporters is vital…and we are taking this process very seriously”. The IFO finds that the Club was in breach of its Charter in the handling of this complaint and recommends that the Club apologises to the complainant and explains to the Football League how it proposes to uphold its Charter in the future. "

Peach of a header for Sir Ricky's first goal. How many Saints were there??? A few of my mates ended up in the Home end.

It's not illegal to sell the type of T-shirts NI/The Ugly Inside knocked out. No infringment of copyright etc. The Club don't (and shouldn't) have a monopoly on stuff like this. As I mentioned before the owner and members of the forerunner of this site did the very same thing in 2003. I think that when they came in NI was actually very thankful for saving the Club. And if he had said a few negative things it would a massive over reaction to castigate someone for espousing their own opinion. Once again, how can you suggest that supporting a former regime is worthy of revoking his season ticket. Despite it being a farce (although I admit I never went), I can't see how this could be considered a valid enough reason. As with the Silverspoon's debacle, how on earth could this justify the Club's actions, particularly when the initative was attempting to generate funds to keep the Club alive long enough for Markus and Cortese to buy the Club. Once again are you suggesting that critcising the Club over a specific action (an action which many had a problem with, myself included) is enough to revoke a ST? If you could find just one supporter who has had his ST revoked and not told why then I would be most grateful.

Really??? I'm not sure he really did use the Club's name to promote everything and I also don't think the Club have a monopoly on t-shirts and even other merchandise, particularly when the Official Logo isn't used. What next, attacking this forum for taking my money off the back of the Club's name??? After all, the predecessor of this forum launched some very smart (if somewhat poor quality) MUSH T shirts around the time of the FA Cup Final. Don't seem to recall any furore then. If this is the reason, (which I very much doubt), then I'm afraid I don't think it would stand up to any scrutiny. Have to say that the Silverspoons fiasco did sound terrible and IMHO Nick should apologise (if he already hasn't) even if he believes events were outside of his control. That said, I'm also unsure how that fiasco can be in any way linked to the current problem.

Indeed. Wouldn't wish the pain, anguish and suffering we as fans went through last season on anyone (although I imght reconsider that for just one club!!!!). Their supporters will be the innocent victims of a larger problem that stalks football.

You're a gent. (Good to see your little 'un the other night, hope we can get something sorted for him and the other lads regarding the cricket).

I know Parkinson's Law is probably evident in every industry/profession, but I have to say it really is true in teaching. You could easily devote every waking hour planning, marking, assessing, form filling, worrying etc etc etc, but as Choula says superbly, you need to know where to draw the line and ensure a degree of work/life balance. SuperMikey, as for specific issues relating to entering teaching, then feel free to PM me (think it might be easier than to get sidetracked by noddy stuff on here and you/I can probably be a bot more frank). I went in through the GTP route after 20 years in the Accountancy Profession/Business Finance, so might not be the same route you're looking at, but more than happy to give advice, tips, help in any way you want.

8/10 for me. Lallana and Oxo stayng major plusses. Guly and Chaplow permanent was good business. I'll reserve judgement on the two new wingers, but at least we have cover for the first two above. Puncheon going is probably good news (if he was that much of a bad influence), Wotton won't be missed. Mills is interested as although I'm nto in his fan club, he must be doing something right ooop north (and in a higher division). Being greedy, i would have liked one or two more quality players in, but I can't complain (plus I think the January window is a difficult one to buy in).