um pahars

Getting picked up in a minute by a couple of mates who drove down. There's probably one on the back of the parcel shelf which I'll ask about.

As with your snide accusation that I am attacking Cortese, I find your insinuation here to be just as ill thought out. Along with others I have attempted to rise above the individuals involved (although of course that will be difficult due to supporting the Club and Cortese in their efforts to move the Club forward and also knowing NI). I personally would have thought you would have been above such attacks, but your contributions to this thread and your unnecessary and facetious lies have demonstrated that this would be too much to ask from yourself.

Some interesting logic there. The ban on photographers caused some divisions on here and in real life, but I'm not sure the logical conclusion that should be drawn from that is that photographers are divisive! Instead it is the actions of the Club, that have been found wanting in the IFO report, that have been at the centre of this controversy.

To you, a season ticket may be just a ticket to a discount, but maybe to others it is more than that. A chance to sit with friends, a guaranteed seat, some extra benefits, no hassle, a commitment to the Club you support, maybe a badge of honour etc etc etc. Those 13,000 ST holders will probably have a myriad of reasons why they buy them (including some or none of the above reasons) and perhaps some of them would be just as upset if they were refused this oppourtunity and probably somewhat irked if this opportunity was denied with no good reason provided. Once again we can probably agree on something. You have your opinion and I have mine and it has been good to debate our views in a sensible fashion without getting caught up in the personality involved, so thanks for that. I hope it is resolved and I also hope we go from strength to strength and go up this season. With that in mind I'm off to Peterborough in 30 mins (have no idea why we're going do early!!!). Take care.

If you're coming out of the Dolphin the pub on the right hand corner was The Southerners and on the left was The Queens (now a chinese upstairs and bar that changes its name every week). The Southerners used to have some very, very, very rough topless barmaids, so bad it actually put you off your drink. Upstairs in the Queens used to be a regular skinhead haunt.

At least we agree on something Oh come on, supporting a football team and buying a season ticket is not the same as any normal business/consumer transaction. To try and suggest it is, is rather dienegenuous and somewhat missing the point about what buying a season ticket and supporting your team is all about. Why have 13,000 other people signed up for a season ticket if it's not that much of a big deal??? Along with the commercial aspects of making such an investment, there are the emotional aspects attached to it. This isn't North Korea and football is always going to be an emotional business. After all you only have to look at this site to see what passions are aroused by a whole raft of issues, on and off the pitch.

I missed that the first time around and came over in a cold sweat thinking about Katalinic, Granger, Kite, Nixon, Andrews etc etc etc

Although money's obviously an issue, I think buying a season ticket is much more than that. After all, why have 13,000 people signed up for one if it's not that much of a big deal? I think that's slightly OTT, to an individual who has been supproting the Club for so long I think he is due an explanation (after all, the IFO seem to agree with this line of thinking).

Cricket, perhaps?

It obviously wasn't that petty that they decided to revoke someones season ticket. I would have thought for them to take those actions they would have thought it to be more than petty. Plus from the individuals perspective it is somewhat more than petty.

So Nick needs to give his disgruntled "customers" an explanation, but the Club don't need to. I love consistency, me. As for the other stuff either side of that classic dash of hypocrisy, then I have to say I much prefer it when you ramble on about the Empire.

I think if they cared that much to revoke the ticket and put a refund through without telling you this was happening, then I wouldn't put it past them to care enough to come down on you if you had managed to sneak in via the back door (and this time not give you a refund LOL).

I can accept that not having sympathy for NI could be deemed a valid viewpoint, particularly if he hasn't apologised for the Silverspoon's debacle. However, doesn't that make the lack of explanation and/or apology from the Club just as poor (if not worse given their own Supporters Charter & standing in the Community)? Surely if we're going to criticise NI for his failings in not apologising, then the Club, who should be even more responsible and professional, can be criticised for the same failings?

Indeed, and my response was in the context of responding to the question "how do we know that no explanation has been given?", which the IFO report clears up and confirms he (and others) hasn't.

Personally, I would have followed the path that NI followed in that I would have tried to contact the Club direct first, then tried mediation (maybe even approached a friendly face on the inside e.g. Luker when he was there), the League and finally the IFO. If I was convinced I had done nothing wrong and had been unfairly treated I certainly wouldn't just roll over and them let them treat me like dirt. Why should I let them make my watching of Saints awkward (arranging tickets for 23 games, paying a fair bit extra, not guaranteeing I could sit with my mates, losing ST benefits etc) for no good reason? As for getting someone to buy a season ticket in their name for me, then I'm not sure I would take that risk as there would be every possibility of the Club finding out that the ticket has been transferred and therefore in breach of the terms and conditions, meaning they could revoke that one as well (presumably without the refund!!!).

Has Nick gone crying to the media?? Firstly he contacted the Club on numerous occasions (don't remember any publicity about this) but received no response to his complaint. He then sought assistance from the Football League, once again I don't remember any crying to the media. He also sought an opportunity for a mediation meeting which was rejected. Only then did he follow the correct protocol in involving the IFO (who publish their findings in the public domain) and I still haven't seen what I would call "crying to the media". If anything I would argue NI has kept his counsel on this one and followed the correct protocol from the start.

I said something similar in my first post on this thread, as like many quasi legal rulings, some of the language, terminology and syntax can be hard work. My thoughts on your specific points would be: I read this that there is no appeal against the findings of the report and whatever its conclusions are then those conclusions have to recorded as being final. However, due the limitations on its powers it does not have ability to make any of its recommendations binding. Don't see any dichotomy there, they are two distinct issues. I think they are more than happy to say that they were given access to the Club Officials who co-operated with them. I wouldn't say that the failure to answer one question to the IFO's Satsifaction would be worthy of stating the Club did not co-operate in the investigation. Once again I think the IFO are clearly recognising that whilst the Club does indeed have a legal right to refuse anyone, they also believe that this power should be exercised reasonably and in conformity with the good customer care philosophy extolled in the Club's Supporters' Charter. I think they are merely stating that if the Club is to have such a Charter (I think it's a pre-requisite of League membership), then it should be adhered to, and in their opinion the best resolution for this issue would be to withdraw the ban on purchasing a ST. I have to say I do think this is somewhat below the belt. If we don't like the decision then let's have a pop at the court is a tad myopic. The IFO was established by the three main English footballing bodies, along with Government support, and this individual has 10 years experience of dealing with issues of this ilk, so not sure I agree with that cheap shot.

Well actually the IFO report states, "The complainant ...... has never had a substantive reply from Southampton FC." Wouldn't have thought they would put that there if he has received a reply. "The Club had by no means explained its actions even to the Football League" So the league never got an explanation either. "Despite this reassurance that “Chatham House rules” would apply, the officials could not explain to the IFO’s satisfaction why the Club had taken the action" Neither did the IFO get a direct answer either. Furthermore, "The IFO enquired why no reason had been given to the complainant and suggested that, even at this late date, a letter could be sent to the complainant stating in general terms why the Club, possibly temporarily, had chosen not to extend to the complainant the privileges associated with season ticket ownership. This would at least address one part of the complaint, that no communication had been sent to the complainant explaining why he was subject to the season ticket restriction. Club officials agreed to consider this option. " Which clears up that the Club have yet to communicate to NI (or anyone else) their reasons for doing so. Your point has been raised by a few people now, and all I can suggest is that people read the full report as the report negates some of the suggestions that are being put forward on this thread.

Can we criticise the Club for the second of the two issues considered by the IFO, namely "the way the complaint was handled.". On this the IFO report: "The latter is fairly straightforward ........... It is patently obvious that Southampton failed to fulfil its Charter pledges, either in the timescale of its indirect response or in explaining the reasons for its actions. The way it handled this complaint hardly reflects the statement on the Club website that “listening to our supporters is vital…and we are taking this process very seriously”. " The IFO finds that the Club was in breach of its Charter in the handling of this complaint and recommends that the Club apologises to the complainant and explains to the Football League how it proposes to uphold its Charter in the future."

I would argue that it is the actions of the Club that have brought about this sorry affair that has got all the tongues wagging.

Call it a lucky guess, but I reckon they well have been his fellow Saints fans. Of all the wild guesses about why his ticket has been revoked, I have to say his "abuse of power" and "undemocratic" actions as Chairman of the Saints Trust or his role in the Silverspoons debacle have to be the two wildest. If either of them turn out to be the justification then (a) I'm a banana, and (b) Cortese really has lost the plot on this one.

I think you may have missed the point. Your criticism of NI in this regard may well be valid (as might be the criticism of the Silverspoons debacle), but to try and link this to his season ticket being revoked is, how would you say, bonkers.

You would have to be a toal ignoramus to think that the Silverspooms debacle had any association (even indirect) with the Club. I bet the bloke who organised the JPT coach I went on has gone in to hiding!!!! If you see anyone in a Groucho Marx get up at SMS for the next match, I bet that's him.

I'm surprised, that like many others, you are bringing in somewhat irrelevant issues in to this thread. If you (and others) want to start a thread on how much NI is a c*** and debate his many failings, then fell free. However, I'm unsure how the Silverspoons debacle and his perceived abuse of "power" fit in to this thread. If those individuals who feel ripped off at Silversppons want to have a pop at NI feel free, and if those who think his role at the Trust is wanting then feel free, but I find it hilarious that either of these issues could be considered as a justification for revoking his season ticket. That bloke whose coach I went on should be worried, as should Granty, Daren Wheeler etc who get quoted in The Echo. LOL

Then it's disappointing that the Club do not take up this obvious solution and even more disappointing that as the IFO point out, the Club appears to be prepared not to honour its pledge to its supporters.