east-stand-nic

A good try but you have still missed the point I was making in depth. The fact is, people have been following the same patter for that least the last 50 or so years. Vote Labour, they do crap, change to Tory, they do crap, vote back to Labour. Where has this got us? No where. In fact we are going backwards. After 13 years of so of Tory, 90's and 2020's we put Labour back in because the Tories failed miserably. Labour are once again going to do the exact same thing. So in 4 years, should we vote the Tories back in, knowing for a FACT they will change nothing for the better? It is no wonder people are flocking to reform. And IF their manifesto is true and they try to do all the things they have pledged, great. Will they do all or any of those things? Who knows. But one thing we know for sure is Labour and Tory will NOT do anything they promise for the better of people. So, in summary, do we vote in parties we KNOW will do nothing for us, as we have a proven track record of this. Or should we try someone knew and unknown? think about it. If Reform do no better than Labour or Tory (almost impossible), what have we lost? And please, OMG do not come back with the same old nonsense of better the devil you know. We must try someone new.

Of course u are. Because I have shown you up, it is your only route out of the corner. Much easier if you would just debate people and show them where you believe their statement to be wrong. But you can't, so u revert to name calling, silliness and striking out like a child.

Which clearly translates into... 'Bugger, he has me in a corner again and I cannot get out of it without admitting he is correct'. If you can, then please tell me where I am not correct in the statement I made? Come along now .. grow a pair and enter adult debate.

Once again, caught with nothing to say on the debate so resort to your normal IQ level.

What positive change are you expecting from Labour or Tory? Isn't it daft to carry on voting for them both when they have proven time and time again they are useless?

So we have determined i am correct. Change is needed . But it it thick to vote reform but OK to vote the usual idiots.

Thank you for a well thought out sensible point, and well made. In not so many words, we are saying the same thing. real change is needed. But what I am saying is that to carry on voting for the same old same and expecting a different outcome is utter madness. Reform may end up being rubbish also. But how can we know until we try. And surely trying them has to be more sensible than simply carrying on down the same road. To take your point about new faces etc., yes this is something I have also been saying for years. The two main problems is that they will be hard to notice without proper sponsorship and funding, and if then they find big funding, will they end up being owned by the rich again like Labour And conservative. Also, I have noticed over the years a lot of fresh idealistic faces come to the fore, and each and every time they either disappear and become ineffective or they become sucked in by the poison chalice of greed and corruption and sell their souls to the highest bidder. It is very hard to find a young idealistic politician/person who will not have his/her head turned by the riches available to them. So, in summary and conclusion, how do we find the new fresh faces, get them noticed and then stop them being turned over to the darkside?

One again you have missed my point entirely. No. In fact I suspect you know full well what my point is and you know I am 100% correct but because of your silly bias views and ways, you will never bring yourself to accept I of all people am indeed correct. A very sad way to live. I am genuinely sad for you.

I am stating very very clearly on the Reform thread that it is MADNESS to continue to vote for labour or Tory as neither of them cares a shit about the average person, and serve only their rich masters. If it is thick to vote for change in the face of two others who have a totally 100% proven track record of not giving a shit, then it is also utter madness to carry on with Lab and Con and expect anything different. We must have REAL change or things will remain as they are and I expect, get much worse.

You have completely missed my point. Further more you seem to have somehow decided I am not in anyway blaming the Tories. If you have a read you will see I have stated countless times on this forum that I believe there are both the same. Neither party does anything for the average working person. They look after the rich people and corporations. Now read my post again and you will see I am 100% correct.

I recall the old sayings on here and in pubs etc...it went something like this. I see the Tory scum are taking money from the poor again. Why the hell don't they just tax their rick pals so the pensioners don't freeze in winter. I wonder, why doesn't Labour Tax their rich pals and reinstate the winter fuel allowance?

So, tell me what I say is incorrect?

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results." So, by that reckoning those that carry on voting for the usual 3 are mad/thick. Mope. People wanting to try something new to avoid said quote = Thick. Couldn't make it up.

You can never win with left leaning people. It is a derangement syndrome. Like Trump or Musk or Farage. They could clean up world wars, end poverty and cure cancer and people on here would still say things like 'Ah but....' or, 'yeah in-spite of them....' etc.They will never say a bad word about the ones they like and support, and likewise will never say a good word about those they opposed and dislike. It is a childish, narrow minded blinkered outlook and a big reason why the world is in such a mess.

No answer to the point Turkish made then? Thought not.

Wasting your time trying to enter a sensible debate with that one. He is only here to berate everything I say, no matter what and post his LOL emoji. But of course, he will say it is me doing it. He is off his head.

Argentina 1978 first for me. For some reason i supported Tunisia, which was cool because they lasted about as long as England normally do. So i was set up for a lack of disappointment for years to come. 1982 - That 3-2 Ital Brazil game. Brazil that year were the best I had ever seen. As ever, England flattered to deceive and had no real goal threat. Two nil nil games and it was Au revoir. 1986, my first WC in the privacy of my own bedroom with an old black and white TV. The hand of god and our disallowed goal was the time I started to realise football was corrupt and everyone hated England. Maradona was ace though to be fair. 1990, total heart break. The worst I had felt after a game since Highbury 84. No other real memories for me. And that was that until 96 Euro's which i watched and 98 WC, then that was enough for me and I can honestly say I have probably watched no more than 3 or 4 WC games since.

Yes, the poster who said that is for sure a looney. And you are his alter ego, so you are also.

Ah but come on....as someone on here said when he scrapped the payments, they must have had good reason. Clearly they did their sums and realised it was not affordable. However of course as we all know, when the Tories scrap help for pensioners it is because they are scum and only support the right.

What on earth is a man doing being a member of such a racist far right party, a man who describes himself as a British Muslim. Surely Farage would not allow such a person into his clan?

Illiterate prick. It's Trump is such a cunt. See how easy it is.

Listen up thicko....many on here defend it and say they should be taken on and looked after. Moron.

A good friend of mine lost his business in a very similar way to how it has mentioned before above. The thing is, the tax office go after and target self employed small business as they are easy pickings. They know they don't have the money for a good lawyer or accountant to defend themselves. But I have very little sympathy for anyone who loses their business or who gets taxed to much while still supporting mass illegal immigration. These buddies of yours coming over on their dingy have to have their hotel bills paid for by some one. You cannot have it both ways.

Indeed. Nothing fake about NASA at all. Everything the media reports is 100% true. The closed minds here are just beyond belief.

To show people how easily they can be fooled in someones back yard. Absolute proof but of course not a one of you will accept it is possible NASA lie. OH no, this is just utter rubbish. Sadly for you MSM believers, this proves 100% their images could be totally made up. https://www.facebook.com/reel/2606945756181558/