CHAPEL END CHARLIE

What evidence do you have that immigration - rather than funding cuts - is the root cause of all this "severe pressure" you detect?

What type of immigrant jobseekers do you propose to stop?

What type of immigrant jobseekers do you propose to stop?

Immigrant labour has both a negative and a positive impact on public services. So again what point are you trying to make here?

I mentioned house building because YOU raised the subject. So your above objection would appear to be nonsensical.

There is bound to be some impact of course. But please explain why it should be that all these (mostly young and fit) immigrants would pose a special burden on the NHS?

It's difficult to answer a point when said point has been formed without any evidential basis - as was you claim yesterday that immigration was in the order of 500k pa by the way.

So that's no evidence then.

Well what is your evidence that immigration has imposed some significant burden on the public services you mention? Actually official data shows that immigrants contribute more financially to this economy than they cost.

Our largest house builder - Barrett - reported recently that the construction industry now relies upon migrant labour - especially in the London area. So if you want more building here in the UK then stopping immigration may prove to be counter-productive.

Well as we know Angela Merkel is Hitler in a trouser-suite. So I'd say that we better starting building new hospitals pretty damn quick.

I found your film to be hackneyed, overblown and lacking in any real interest - it reminded me of you in some ways. How do you react to your man Boris deciding to climb down from his battle bus and compare current EU leaders with Hitler and Neopoleon ? Given your (very) strong views on the evils of "Project Fear" I expect you will agree that's pretty desperate stuff.

Well I'm sorry to see that you are in a bad mood again Wes. Perhaps if you could post with a little less pomposity and a little more lucidity then your temper might improve. It's worth giving it a go surely.

But apart from stereotypical 'death and taxes' nothing in life is a 100% reliable is it - not even a VW Golf in my experience. Nevertheless, all the evidence we have points towards leaving the EU being a dangerous, if not foolhardy, move from a economic perspective. Just ask my mate Wes because I know he agrees with me on this.

Do you see this my fellow Sainstwebians - after what seems like months of futile attempts to deny the obvious truth our Wes has finally conceeded (with typical bad-grace mind you) that expert testimony is indeed a form of evidence. Not that he is about to take any notice of course .... But HOORAY anyway! This does go to show methinks that if you stick at a job for long enough then you will eventualy get your reward

Your insults kind of wash-over me now as the pettiness of it all disinterests me. However, this behaviour is nevertheless rather telling as to your personality I suppose. As for your seemingly endless complaints .. well you can rest assured that I shall continue to express myself as I see fit to do so without fear or favour to anyone. So then you would appear to find yourself in what might be depicted as a - like it or lump it - type sitution. Re your tiresome habit of rejecting any evidence you find inconvenient to your argument. I can only state that I find this hobby of yours to be both contemptible and risable in equal measure - I guess you already know that. While we are on the subject I can't be the only person on here who is deeply unimpressed with your 'they were wrong about the Euro' argument. That made precious little sense the first time you parroted it months ago and it is not exactly improving with age! You claim again that the fate of our future generations is a matter of some concern for you. But that claim is virtually meaningless as you seem utterly determined to imperil their future. So I can only conclude that this consideration is in fact a matter of little real importance to you. If you could only be a little more honest on here then perhaps you might come across more convincingly too. Furthermore, you say that all the distinguished economists who warn the British people of the dangers we all face are only "so-called" experts - a clear implacation methinks that you question their creditbilty. If that is so then please expand on why you think the Governor of the BoE is somehow unqualified to give his considered opinion on this subject? If he has gone 'out on a limb' here than why have the bank's ENTIRE Monetary Policy Committee also endorsed his findings? No, these people (and the IMF, OECD, etc) are not "so-called" experts, they are in fact leading world authorites on the subject of economics who any reasonable person might consider worth listening to. Finally, and just to show you that I too know how to increase font-size: EXPERT OPINION IS EVIDENCE. .

Well economics I suppose is far from being a exact science and there is always a degree of uncertainity here. The explanation for this is probably related to the sheer complexity, and indeed dynamism, of the subject. However, virtualy ALL the expert evidence we see before us indicates that leaving the EU would - very likley - damage this nation's economic prospects to some meaningful extent. I feel that those among us who still have to go out and earn a living for themselves in this economy are entitled to bare that consideration in mind - as are those who are concerned about their children's future. Think of it this way - if you choose to smoke 100 cigarettes a day for your entire adult life then no doctor can tell you that it is a matter of certainty that you will develop lung cancer or heart disease as a result. But that is what expert opinion will tell you is a likley outcome and methinks only some kind of fool would choose to ignore that advice just because doctors have been known to be wrong in the past. This nation has been comprehensivly advised now by both national and international experts in the field of economics of the potentially grave consequences of voting to leave the EU. Indeed, in many ways this argument is already over and we have now entered a period of waiting before seeing whether the British people choose to follow the advice they have been given, or allow their 'pride and prejudice' to overcome their reason. .

I don't care about the PA system. That bloody footbridge over the railway line on the other hand is a constant annoyance.

As others have already said, and was indeed reported on the news last night, the explanation for the apparent discrepancy is that EU immigrants arriving here for temporary work contracts - such as those helping to pick the summer crops for example - also require a NI number by law. These people soon return home, so they are not counted officially as 'permanent' immigration. I suppose all these fit young people might make some impact on our 'Welfare State' while they are over here enriching both themselves and our economy - but only a minimal one I suspect. If you disaprove of this aspect of our modern economy for some reason then perhaps you could please explain how else short term vacancies of this type are to be fullfilled in this current labour market? Or should we just leave the crops in the field and let them rot? You also forgot to make the usual blanket dismissal of Mark Carney's start warning of the dangers that lay ahead of us should we leave the EU - or should I say the Govenor of the Bank of England and unanimous opinion of the entire Monetary Policy Committee ... oh and 200 other economists who wrote saying much the same thing to the 'Times' this week.

I've done my level best to explain the facts of the matter but you still don't appear to comprehend the situation. I think that the most likley outcome here is that the UK (or rather whatever remains of the UK) would end up with trade arrangement with the EU that broadly mirrors that which other comparable industrialised nations (such as Norway or Switzerland) have already achieved. The notion that we can drive a veritable coach and horses through the EU Single Market concept - in effect 'cherry picking' only what we happen to like - seems improbable to put it mildly.

So I take it we agree then that BOTH sides are inclined towards misleading, if not damn right dishonest, propaganda.

Well current EU export stats would obviously include the UK. But if you want to place our international significance into its proper perspective then (for example) the UK is actualy Germany's third largest export market after the USA and France. Treating the UK as if it were already not in the EU, then according to this website we would represent some 16% of EU exports in goods: https://fullfact.org/europe/where-does-eu-export/ So while some 45% of UK exports (in goods) go to the EU, they would send 16% of their comparable exports to us. However, should the UK break-up in the aftermath of our EU departure then all those numbers would have to adjusted and the trading significance of our diminished nation would clearly decline somewhat.

You feel that the EU exports more to the UK than China or the USA?

Because the EU has agreed to categorize the Republic of South Africa as a poor 'Emerging Economy' it has secured a preferential trade arrangement with the EU. As the UK manufacturing economy 'emerged' as far back as the Industrial Revolution of the 18th century I fear that our chances of gaining this particular trading status don't look especialy good!

Turkey now has what is known as a 'Customs Union' type arrangement with the EU that is not at all the same thing as the full access to the EU Single Market area the UK now enjoys. Furthermore, this arrangement does not cover financial services - which every man and his dog on here knows is a large and vital part of the UK economy. I will also point out that Turkey has to conform to Single Market rules and regulations without having any say whatsoever in how these regs are formed. The fact is that even this limited form of (tariff free) access to the SIngle Market area has only been agreed because Turkey is a candidate state for future EU membership. So another case of 'apples and oranges' then.