CHAPEL END CHARLIE

Well yes, you should always take care when expressing opinions that don't appear to be in close proximity to the reality of the situation.

I understand the programme in question - What Muslims Really Think - will be broadcast on C4 tomorrow night.

Again, Phillips not only has made a name for himself by oppossesing multiculterlism, he is quite open and unapologetic for this. So that would be a agenda then.

Do you disagee that many in the press and broadcast media have their own agendas they are seeking to promote?

Trevor Phillips's opposition to multiculterlism is quite open and not at all "hidden". I stand to be corrected of course but I belive my maths are correct here and that this survey involves a tiny percentage of our Muslim population - much less than 0.1% in fact. From that small percentage we are led to believe that most Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal and wives should always obay their husbands .. etc .. etc. If you understood the issue better then you might realise that these 'headline' conclusions the media habitually draw from polling are often misleading as surveys nearly always exclude (or "filter out") the 'don't knows' and 'won't answers" from their findings and very few ever take much notice of the ever present 'margin of error' implicit in all polling. Furthermore, the obvious failure of polls to acutely predict recent election results would seem to indicate that their reliablity is questionable at best. But if you have some evidential basis for believing that this particular poll is more reliable than all the others then by all means present it and I shall happily consider the matter in due course.

Almost everyone in the media has some sort of agenda to promote I suppose - and let's face it Trevor Phillips is no exception to that rule.

I don't dismiss the survey - I have not even seen it properly yet - but I do urge a degree of caution be applied when interpretating results. Do you disagree?

I'm not sure why nativity plays have suddenly become germane to this topic, but Phillips in indeed no friend of racism - far from it. But knowing so much about him you will agree that he is also a leading critic of multiculturalism and therefore someone with a agenda to promote.

No.

Please expand on what you find so vey odd in asking a simple question on a forum of this nature as this seems unclear, if not rather strange. As for survey results in general, my advice to you would be to not place too much trust in their findings as the record does seem to indicate they are far from completly reliable. Being so 'open minded' you might also consider Trevor Phillips's record here.

I "understand" that our Muslim population can be estimated to be in the region of some 3 million people now - based on the last (2011) census result and likely changes since then. Therefore, a survey of 1000 induviduals would need to be TRIPLED in size to reach 0.1% of that number.

So you are telling me then that 1000 is the correct numbr here? I must say that your obvious reluctance to provide a simple answer, to what was afterall a perfectly straightforward question, comes across as being not a little odd. But there again, I can't be the only person on here to have noticed that that your side of the argument here does seem to have more than its fair share of abnormaly quarrelsome and ill-tempered induviduals.

I ask this simple question because (as yet) I have only read about this survey via secondary scources - and they can be notoriously unreliable. So again, how large a sample size did this survey entail?

Oh I think you will find that Trevor Phillips is anything but a Nazi. Still awaiting answer to my question by the way - as you have read the article I would have thought that this should be a simple enough matter.

Obviously you will grab onto anything that you feel supports your viewpoint. I can understand this easily enough without finding it especially impressive. However, I will watch the forthcoming TV prorgramme of course. But in the meantime would you please either confim or refute reports that this survey asked a mere 1000 British Muslims their opinions?

Well I too had assumed that you were being sarcastic. But if you are indeed seriously attempting to tell this forum that (quote) "Obama is responsible for all drone attacks around the world" then I can only conclude that your grasp on the current military aviation scene may not be quite as secure as you think it is. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11942480/Russia-posts-Syria-attack-drone-footage-amid-propaganda-drive.html

I like to think I'm more right than righteous ....

I've grown rather wary of all survey results remembering just how far wrong the pollsters were in predicting both the Scottish Independance Referendum and the last General Election results. Statisticians may disagree, but it seems to me that if you ask 1000 Muslims what they think - out of a population than may well be approaching 3 million now - then that represents a sample size of far less than a 0.1% - if my maths are correct.

I will suggest that St Mary's would have more serious problems to deal with were there no segmentation between home and away fans. As for the idea of shifting thousands of ST holders around in order to produce a 'kop' effect ... well I would be amazed if the club would even seriously contemplate such a unlikley notion, let alone implement it.

Trevor Phillips is certainly a media friendly character with a consistent agenda he is invariably seeking to promote to anyone who will listen. That agenda of course is that he thinks that the concept known as 'multiculturalism' - i.e. the idea that people from wildly different backgrounds and beliefs can live together harmoniously - is a fundamentaly flawed notion and that minority populations in British Society should somehow be encouraged to adandon their culteral heritage and instead conform to a rather vague concept he defines as "Britishness". I can sympathise to a degree with him here because it would be wonderful if every Brit was indeed of a like-mind in their core beliefs and attitudes - however impossibly idealistic such a notion may be. However, it seems to me that the problem with his argument is surely that one of these core "britishness" values we are all supposed to share is a respect for everyone's freedom of expression and right to follow the religion of their choice. It is also worth pointing out that during Trevor Phillips's tenure as chair of the ECHR (Equality and Human Rights Commission) this organisation was mired in endless controversy and division - problems often put down to his leadership. The House of Lords once famously described aspects of his behavour at this time as being: "inappropriate and ill-advised". But there is I think a certain 'seperataness' about how many Muslims in European society see the modern world when compared to the outlook of their more 'western' (and increasing secular) minded neighbours. I suspect this difference is more pronounced in the older generation, and perhaps in newcomers from adroad, rather than it is in second or third generation British Muslims born and raised here. Indeed, judged on how some Muslims reportedly view issues such as homosexuality (for example) then I'm reminded strongly of how many of the older generation British people that I grew up with once thought. It may be that British Muslims are so much a different people from other groups in society, but rather just a generation or two behind us.

It may be that the root cause of the problem here is that some people suffer from a form of mild cognitive disorder that manifests itself in them invariably seeing problems in simple "black or white" terms, while other (more subtle) minds respond to the complexity of the world by comprehending endless "shades of grey". If I recall correctly psychiatrists depict people who fall into the former group as "Polarised Thinkers". For example, anything that is not perfect must therefore be a failure as the existance of a "middle ground" is almost inconceivable to the true polarised thinker. I suppose what we might call the - if you oppose racism then you support terrorism - attitude sometimes displayed on here falls very much into this category.

Aye - the proverbial "next big thing" who soon became a object of small desire. But that Saganowski had about two good games, acquired a dedicated group of fans on here, and then did bugger-all for the rest of his contract here. On the other hand I would say that Michail Antonio was probably one of the most underrated players St Mary's has seen in recent years.

https://youtu.be/SDzwbrNLNc0

It would seem not. Mind you, he has been convicted on a charge of rank hypocrisy when you remember what he said about Jimmy Carr. But if every politician who was guilty of hypocrisy had to resign then we would not have enough left to fill a minicab let alone Parliment.

I noticed that too. You could see that Koeman was clearly furious with Martina about something - most probably the fact that he was giving the opposition about a acre of free space to exploit on our right!