S-Clarke

That's exactly it, there have been other clubs who have tried to 'play like Man City', even that bat-shit crazy Forest Green Rovers tried to adopt a Man City style, that went well. At the end of the day Man City could play whatever flaming style they want, and they'd still win every week. It's all about the players and that's why that style works for them. I've always had the belief that if a lesser side really wants to zone in on a philosophy, their best chance is to try and disrupt the 'bigger sides' - pressing, closing down, catching them on the break etc. If you just play them at their own game there will only ever be one winner. I hope the club realise that this summer and drop this insane obsession. When we were successful under Pards, Adkins and Koeman you didn't hear any bollocks about a philosophy or a style, we just played a team to win with winning players - it's as simple as that.

A load of absolute dog shit. We played exactly like what we'll become once we start lingering in this league, a load of huff and puff mid-table also-ran bollocks. This season will always have been our best chance to get promoted, no other way to put it. I thought the very least we'd achieve would be Top 80's or low 90's points wise, and beating our 2011/2012 total - but we're not even going to manage that, which just adds weight to how underwhelming and frankly frustrating this entire season has been. Only we can go 26 games unbeaten and not achieve anything. Only we can keep the ball for an average of 70% and not achieve anything. Way to go everyone. The first half was as bad as we've played this season, so slow, so predictable. I think we saw pretty clearly why the likes of Mara should be given away for free in the summer, in fact I'd pay someone to take that waste of space. Brooks, very, very disappointing - I like him as a player, always have done, but he plays as an individual and you can tell as clear as day that he's passing through - he has no interest or affiliation with us, we were just a convenient option for him when he wanted to play games. He'll waddle off back to Bournemouth in the summer after a completely forgettable loan spell. THB is another one really, I think he knows the outcome is that he'll go back to City as we won't be buying him - so his commitment levels are through the floor. In many ways this is what happens when you fill your squad with loan players, commitment drops when they realise it's not ending as they thought - so they're planning their futures back at their parent clubs in the summer. What that will leave us with is not worth thinking about at this stage, we'd be lucky to compete for top half. I'm not going to talk about the managers deficiencies as that's been done to death, but it genuinely feels to me that we have wasted an entire season on nothing - we won't even have sales to show for it, as our best players are loan players. At this stage I'm struggling to get myself up for the playoffs, we'll enter it in the worst way possible on the back of 4 straight defeats - and I have no confidence that we'd even avoid defeat against any of the current Top 6. It feels like there is a certain inevitability about how it's going to end, so why waste our time - give our place to Hull and let us sort our shit out for what will be one hell of a summer of more change.

What, over 60 goals conceded in a season?

I don't think they've made the best use of him really, he's been in and out of the team, sub here, sub there etc. He has consistently hit 20 odd goals a season for years at this level, so they should have just built the 11 around him with Summerville and Willy either side and Rutter in the 10.

Player Of The Season: Adam Armstrong. He's turned up this year, not just with goals but general attacking involvement. KWP isn't far behind but he was somewhat expected to be good, but Adam Armstrong stepped up from a real low bar in my opinion. Underwhelming Achievement Award (Worst POTS): Sulemana. It was seen as a bit of a surprise that we'd kept him and we were all pretty excited, but he has been utterly, utterly woeful. He hasn't even scored a goal in this league. Need to get shot of him in the summer, we'll lose 50% on his value without doubt - but that's on our scouts for their stupidity. Best Signing Of The Season: Flynn Downes. Kind of an easy one really, I think he's a Xavi type player at this level - knits everything together, box to box, full of running. THB a close run second, but Flynn edges it for me. Worst Signing Of The Season: Stewart. It can only really be him, not his fault - but the club gambled on an injured striker and low and behold he's been injured all year. We could have waited a year, let him be injured at Sunderland and got him for free this summer. Best Match: Swansea 1 - 3 Southampton. The first 30 mins of that game were as good as we've been for years, so dominant. It wouldn't have been surprising to have seen us hit 6 in those first 30 mins, we were so good. Worst Match: Sunderland 5 - 0 Southampton. Sunderland weren't as good this year, but we allowed them to totally destroy us. It was a bit of a humbling really, only just into the season, playing against a normal Championship side and we were destroyed. A lesson of what was to come defensively it has to be said. Season Rating: 6/10 as it stands. I will always feel a bit underwhelmed by it all, our automatic promotion push was pathetic to say the least - just on the periphery all season. Playoffs always looked guaranteed but I think we could have made more of a fist of it at the top end, we've ended up the worst of the chasers. Russ Rating: 6/10. Seems a nice guy, we have won lots of games under him - but I somewhat feel they have been a little in spite of Russ given the players we have compared to the lesser teams we play. As soon as we come up against anyone half decent we get taken apart. His wedded faith to a pass the ball philosophy is dumb and will cost him a top level managerial career in my opinion. Your one hope for the remainder of the season/next season: Goes without saying this season, get up via the playoffs. It will be tough though given that we have struggled against the top 6 sides all year. If we fail my hope for next season is that we can remain competitive at the top end of this level.

He's another one of those players who never makes absolute howlers, but you are always left wondering if he could have done better. He's not really made any saves since he's been back in the side, nothing that stands out - yet he's picked the ball out of his net 7 times, which is a bit odd. I'm not saying it's on him at all, but I just find it odd that our GK's don't make saves.

Exactly, it's not down to individuals per say, it's the style. We don't have a viable alternative way of playing if Downes is unavailable and there should be some squad flexibility to allow us to cope with that. But we never do, we just blindly do the same thing but with players who aren't suited. Granted, I think we have left our midfield massively short this year which hasn't helped - but it's the 'play this way no matter approach' that's harmed us.

So, we just airbrush those games because they add to the tally? There's no way we should be losing 5-0 twice in a season, mixed in with a 4-1 and 4-4 as well. It's not like we've isolated our crappy goals against to a few games, we gave up 3 at Bristol, 3 against Huddersfield at home, 1 to frigging Rotherham. No matter how you dress it up we should not be conceding over 61 goals. I hear a lot about the morale and 'scar tissue', but why didn't Leeds and Leicester face the same turmoil? What was so different with them? They were also relegated with us after having horrendous seasons, they both had equal turmoil in the summer with players leaving left right and centre. They both changed their managers and backroom staff. If we cannot seemingly cope with 'scar tissue', then why can they?

I think it was Liverpool who tried to change him into a CM, but I feel like you - it never seemed to click, he never looked right in there. I don't think AOC is what we need, he'd be a headline signing for sure, but Aaron Ramsey was a headline signing for Cardiff and his fitness has meant he never plays for them. He'd be another massively expensive gamble that I don't think we can afford in our second season down (if we stay down here). We were bitten by Stewart last summer, let's not do it again.

I think there have been some very reasoned posts in this thread. I had my doubts when he was appointed, he didn't feel the right fit, but you had to get behind him which 99% of us did at that point. The start we had didn't help the nerves, but the recovery and the unbeaten run steadied the ship and brought a lot of us some hope, but the failings at the start of the season were still nagging in the back of most of our minds. Sadly all of those nagging doubts have come rushing back since February, we went 26 games without losing and have now lost 7 in the last 15 which is absolutley bloody horrific and has killed our season. The concerns the fans have are valid in my opinion, a genuine promotion candidate cannot concede in excess of 60 goals - it just doesn't compute. Those goals have come across the entire season, we started it with a 5-0 thrashing and have ended it with another - so in my opinion the fans have got genuine reason to ask wtf is going on. As a team with THB, KWP, Bednarek, Downes etc in the defensive third....we should not be conceding over 60 goals. I know the counter argument some like to play is that these players are shit, they conceded goals whenever they are etc - but this is a level down, they are internationals of varying levels and they are good enough to not be letting in the amount of goals they are. The fundamental issue is our approach in my opinion, no matter how much Martin denies it. 1) - We are wide open, we attack and we push high and leave our CB's playing as midfielders, full backs as attackers etc. When a team press us well and they transition well we are exploited, the gaps are there for all to see. It's been a clear target that oppositions have hit us with - press us, transition with pace and we're done for. It's like groundhog day. 2) - We're too interested with just keeping the ball for keeping the ball sake and passively trying to win the ball back ourselves to transition. This has lead to us standing off so much in the hope we can nick it without fouling, but teams are quick to that and the top sides like Leicester, Ipswich, Hull etc have players who can do a quick 1 - 2 and dance around our passive approach. We fanny around with it in areas of danger and we are pressured to within an inch our life now, it's not about being brave it's being bloody stupid. There's nothing wrong with possession football as an approach, but you cannot build an entire philosophy just on that. The basis of football is keeping the ball, but a philosophy needs to evolve beyond that - and that just hasn't happened here.

Absolutley, that's the main thing - to come up with substantially more of the ball and to lose 5 goals is the clearest illustration of a fundamental flaw in everything about this 'philosophy'. It ain't working. I know he came out yesterday and said it's not about tactics, or the way he setup the team, it's about players willing to run etc etc etc. No, it's about the way they're being told to play and how awfully open and exposed we leave ourselves.

That's the thing though trousers, we have flirted - never anymore than that, we get to within a point or even into 2nd for a game or two and then we're back to 10 points adrift before you can blink. Nothing but on the edges sadly, and that's not been good enough.

Hmm, maybe this was all on Wilcox then. I don't believe you can go into a club as a new regime and demand a specific style of play from the get go, you have to work with what you've got and then evolve. This nonsense about teams becoming a possession based 'over night' is propaganda. That sort of talk rings alarm bells for me.

I don't think it's just me, but I hoped that we wouldn't have conceded over 60 goals with 2 games to go. I hoped and thought we'd be properly involved in the auto race, but if we're honest we've never been anything more than on the periphery of it for the entire season. Sure, the top teams have set the pace...but we just haven't been able to get near them consistently and that will always have me feeling pretty underwhelmed.

My thoughts on Brooks is that our play doesn't suit him. He's a quick tempo, 1 touch type player - looking to get and give, get and move etc. Our style is more of a get, keep, get, keep and I think it makes him look more languid than he actually is. If we played quicker and moved it quicker in tight spaces you'd see the best of him. Rothwell is a winger, or an Armstrong type player - not a CM, everything I've seen of him suggests that. Keep him as far up the field and away from the central area's as possible. He's crap there.

That's the number one thing we look for in any potential new signing, so this is a goer.

It might make him slightly more gettable in the summer I guess, but either way we need 2x CDM's imo. Either him and 1 other, or 2 new.

I think Cooper was still in charge of Forest at that point, so it was always a bit of a long shot. The people in control at that point were desperate for Ralph to go so they could make their own mark (Rasmus), and our start gave him that opportunity. To this day I still believe we'd have stayed up had we kept Ralph in place, I know some don't agree with that - but the decision to get rid of him couldn't have gone any worse. I have seen some fans calling for Cooper if we fail to go up this year, but that couldn't be more unrealistic. Once WHU have stopped flirting with unrealistic options themselves, like they always do, he'll end up there.

Start of this season? Pretty ambitious to think he'd join a Championship club! He'd be a good shout for a newly promoted side next year.

Big game for Leeds on Friday, if they beat QPR then Ipswich will have a ton of pressure on them with 2 games in hand. It's not quite the same chasing when you have games in hand, I found it a massive disadvantage. The two games in hand for Ipswich at that point will be away at Cov and away at Hull. If I were an Ipswich fan I'd be hoping for a QPR shock on Friday, otherwise they likely go into the final game behind or even out of the equation.

I seem to remember them being quite passive for periods of that game, which played into our hands a bit. We did get a way with a couple of moments, but I don't remember ever being under the cosh.

They had a couple of mega chances, I remember Stephens clearing at least one of theirs from under the bar. It looks like a total anomonly though, I think we were somewhat fortunate that WBA were pretty poor on the night and we just controlled it. WBA didn't have the pace or power to really harm us on the break, they're very much a workman like side in my eyes. The teams who inflict the most damage are the ones who press us aggressively, expose the gaps between our lines on transition, the quick/pacey players. Mavadidi, Fatawu had a field day last night. Leeds will have a field day. Huddersfield with Sorba Thomas had a field day against us. Hull with Philogene and Carvaliho had a field day. Hutchinson and Chaplin for Ipswich similar, after about an hour.

He's only on loan from Benfica to be fair, a buy clause of £25m ish - which they won't be able to activate due to their embargo.

That's the guy I saw mentioned on Twitter, currently on loan from Bayer Leverkussen. We're looking at another loan from Bayer.

I think we have a good enough team to not have let in over 60 goals. A team at this level with players such as THB, Bednarek, KWP, Downes should not be conceding over 60 goals in this league, not even close. If we didn't concede as many goals, and maybe scored 10 or so less, we'd be right up there - maybe even needing a win against Stoke to confirm promotion. We were good enough to be there and that's why this season will always leave a horrible sense of 'what could have been' behind. I'll never look back on it with any fond memories, it's a wasted opportunity.