Minty

Makes a nice change for a thread to go completely off-topic but for the thread title to still be relevant...

Just in case any terrorists have googled and found this thread, I do actually have a copy of the building plans, and would be willing to sell them for the right price...

I agree Mate.

Fair enough, I didn't know that. I don't stalk him after all.

Dawson goes on 91, 231/7... 5th caught behind... I think I'd take 270 now.

Good old Hampshire... Now 208/6 both Pothas and Ervine scoring just 1. Last 4 wickets gone for just 9 runs.

Hampshire 1st innings JHK Adams c †Kieswetter b Hussain 74 LA Dawson not out 76 JG Myburgh c †Kieswetter b Hussain 10 ND McKenzie c †Kieswetter b Willoughby 30 JM Vince c †Kieswetter b Willoughby 0 Extras (lb 7, w 3, nb 2) 12 Total (4 wickets; 62 overs) 202 (3.25 runs per over)

Oh look, there's that Liberal Elite label again. Just as pointless as the last time. Anyway, ultimately, it is his democratic right to try to do so if he so wishes...

Doh, and now 154/2, Myburgh out for 10 to the same combination of Hussain and Kieswetter.

Indeed, so, contrary to most other SaintsWeb threads which seem to enjoy going round in circles, I think that's probably my lot.

Absolutely, but this is SaintsWeb...

Not quite... 134/1, Adams caught behind for 74.

Hey, it's up to you, but if it was me, I would not have wanted any misunderstanding. That's all I'm saying.

Trego back on now... currently 10-5-17-0. Our run rate is only 2.92, but while the wickets are there, we're fine.

I was agreeing with you until you decided to bring some nice big sweeping generalisations in at the end. But then look at the main board and just about every thread on this whole board... discussions are portrayed as black and white, and the shades of grey get shouted down just because they are open to alternatives and don't shout as loudly.

Not my intention at all, I didn't say they weren't capable of understanding it, they simply don't take the time to because they feel they are too busy and/or don't want to.

Fair question, and my honest (and clearly biased) opinion based on my beliefs is that if people really understood all the ins and outs of the two systems then they would care about it and vote yes (but I would simply be happy for them to vote full stop). As Joensuu says, people have lost faith in voting and in politics to such a degree that they are beyond caring no matter what is put before them. Ultimately, it is a sad indictment of politics overall in this country.

There you go again, instead of debating it with the one person who you disagree with, you put it down to Liberal Elitests. Anyway, the way I see it, Turkish could've avoided any doubt by just explaining what his avatar was about a lot earlier, whilst others should indeed not have jumped to conclusions.

Well in that case, I would say © because they don't care enough either way.

We all know however there are different stages of activity for people who want to make a change. Just like those who support charities to different degrees, or even those who join political parties, some are very active at the heart of the organisation, some contribute time and money, some just vote or sign petitions, some say they support them but actually don't DO a whole amount. That's just human behaviour. As I said previously, I will fully accept the result of this referendum but the only TRUE way to know what the majority of an electorate feel is for them all to vote. I'm not sure about mandatory voting but that's a separate discussion.

I simply believe it is better to have more of the explicit vote of the electorate, than to surmise as to why they didn't vote. The only strong message being given off by a silent majority is that, for some reason, they chose not to vote... anything beyond that is supposition.

Welcome to society. Everyone does it, me included, as much as I hate doing so. We take what we see in the media and make an initial judgement based on what we've heard. Some of us then wait for alternative views or different angles on the story before then revising our opinion or even changing our minds completely. Many don't.

What is far MORE critical to the debate is not what the politicians want, but what the public want. That's the whole point. This is about how we vote our politicians in and irrespective of what the politicians want, yes or no, the PUBLIC need to know what both options mean and make an informed choice based on that, and not on anything the politicians say, IMO.

lol, well yes, of course some would argue that, but they do so without any factual basis. I'm sure there will be some like that but I would suggest the vast majority who don't vote do so because they simply don't care or don't understand, which is a real shame.

100/0 off 31 overs at lunch, Adams 57no, Dawson 37no. Building a decent start.