Robsk II

Right, right, apologies. I thought you meant we were too free with all movements in the UK. Incidentally, after WW2, a lot of the deal-making etc was actually inherently to do with keeping native populations in their own nations, and not mixed, as it was felt that it was this that had partially led to such hostiliies in the preceeding years. They got it massively wrong in many places, but I thought that might interest you.

What, not letting people move out of a country? See, now, whatever you want to say, I believe people should have a freedom to move in the world. I do see that as a human right, poo-poo it if you want.

My point, Delldays, was only that you came out with this and immediately tied your critical point to the 'loony left' without any substantiation whatsoever. That's why I likened it to the Mail.

I agree with the latter - however, I know, first hand, of examples where young people and mums are clearly under the misconception that having a kid to get money is literally a good - and normal - thing to do. It's worrying how people can be so dense. I have heard 15 year old young women saying, "If I have a baby, I'll get on the council housing list sooner.". It's shocking. The culture growing up in some places is more than a generation old now. it shouldn't be this way, BTF, but more people may believe it than you realise, alas.

Hmm, can't agree with that to be honest. Still - overall, irresponsible benefits claims are certainly a drain on the economy. The thing is, the biggest problem, as said above, is not immigrants in this regard, far, far from it. The major issue is also not that it's easy - that's a good thing. It should be easy to claim for those that need it. The problem is always - always - primarily with the lying, workshy idiots who are happy and comfortable morally with abusing a system that should be a beacon for many in the world as a shining example of good governmental practice for the population. The welfare state is a wonderful concept, I truly believe that. Raising the status of the worst off is a most admirable goal. Thing is, it assumes people are basically decent - that they WANT to aspire, they WANT to improve their lot, they WANT to grasp opportunities. Yet the anti-culture cretins, and their worrying sub-culture, ruin it. Give it a bad name and do turn it into something of a blight. It's very hard to police it, though mistakes are made. If people like, people lie. That's the fault of people, not the government, not immigrants.

I don't dispute that immigration needs to be A) controlled and B) limited, though I'm sure this surprises you. it shouldn't if you read my posts! The problem is that politics generally is reactive, not pro-active. It's often hard to predict things like this accurately because there are so many other factors like economic climate etc involved. It's like the lack of apprenticeships thing, lack of trades. Thatchers government did that, and at the time it was broadly the right thing to do for our economy on the global stage. In many ways, it's done us very well - but they should have been less sweeping, because it has led, twenty years later, to a vacuum in the trades areas - this has led to problems such as inflated tradesman prices - and, of course - resentment at immigrant tradesmen, who actually are often genuinely best placed to do those jobs now. I'd rather have a decent Polish plumber than a cowboy British lad. I'm not saying all Polish ones are good, far from it, but not a lot of young British tradesmen are that good these days for the above reasons.

Ask.

Blah blah blah. What has this got to do with the left? Nothing at all. You should write for the Mail.

Because if your country was a bit screwed and moving to another allowed you and your loved ones to benefit... why not? Another thing about all this immigrant hating is the dehumanisation of them. Christ, most of us would do some dramatic things to safeguard our futures and improve the lot of our families if we thought it would work.

Should be.

Yeah - it's an important thing that, again, many people simply get taken in by. It's a bit like the lib-dems, only more extreme. They know full well that, certainly for the forseeable, they don't have a realistic chance to get many in parliament, much less government. As such they can push the envelope and promise some things that the big two cannot. The BNP finds itself even more licensed to say whatever they want, because not only will they (quite possibly) never have to deliver on it - certainly not as they are now - but they aren't even called upon to detail their policies with a great deal of depth. Not many people really take them seriously, frankly, so not many bother to ask them about the realities of their policy because it makes little difference. On the other hand, many regarded the NSDAP as a bit of a joke for a good few years - but as their popularity grew to become a vaguely recognised party, so did the complexity and depth - and realism - of most of their policies. At the moment they can just say a bizarre mish mash of things to try to appeal to as many people on one or two emotive policies as possible. The fact is, there are socio-economic and politcal practicalities that simply can't be avoided or ignored. In many ways it's a shame, but it's why politics has seemed relatively central for so long. The realities and limitations have meant that, no matter who is in power, some thngs will be broadly the same and some issues will simply not be addressed very well. It's a fact. This is why there will always be failings no matter who is in power. It's a tough job, running the country, and it comes with some harsh realities.

Thanks for the contribution, moron.

Yeah, most of it sounds roughly OK, bar the jingo **** at the end, but remember this is the sanitised version. It's also far too easy to say things like this. I could create a political party in minutes with sound concepts. Also, the education standard is about the society a lot of the time, not about the teachers. No-one can turn that on its head quickly. Quite how they'd do this, I'd love to see. I'm sure they'd have an answer if I asked them, but it would be cheap, easy and not at all practicable.

And - for all the supporters - what do you say about the hypocrisy? The use of the human rights act? The sweeping generalisations that are put aside when it suits the BNP? The number of ex-pats who are members? I'd be willing to be a fair amount of money that there are more British and ex-pats working abroad than there are current generation immigrants working here. Surely that sort of balances things out anyway, because if they'd stayed here in some sort of Brits only white-is-right fascism, there would still be too few jobs? Why can't people understand that it is not simply about immigrants, or this government. Economic crises are cyclic, they always happen every few decades. This is nothing new, and it's a fundamental problem with the economic system of the whole f*cking world! Get over it and stop looking for scapegoats. If you want a job as a fruit picker, get one. Don't sodding well moan that you can't afford to live on those wages. Maybe buy less copies of heat magazine and don't drink 10 pints every Friday. Avoid buying new tracksuits for your screaming kids as a cheap way of parenting them. I've had a woman who is on a lot of benefits on the Flowers estate say to me, "I haven't got time to look after me kids, I'm a full time mum". I joke you not. She does **** all, and her current bloke claims benefits as well as works / does the odd burglary. She's far from alone in being such a cretin. What will the BNP do about that? Nothing. Damn right. It's simply not that easy, and all the morons that don't bother to think about politics, the economy or society in a way that is anything but knee-jerk reactionary and daily-mail incited is welcome to the BNP.

I wish someone would provide some solid figures about the number of jobs truly 'taken' by immigrants. I expect the number is far lower than the crazies like to believe, and that the majority of these jobs are ones which many so-called natives would never have wanted previously. Now it seems like a bigger issue due to the global economic situation, but as usual, so many pople take a massively blinkered view. If a lot of these jobs are trades, try blaming the Thatcher government from moving away from apprenticeships and so on. Even go further, and say that, while it went too far, at the time that may have made sense, though it pains me to admit it. TRY to consider these things fully and deeply. TRY to consider that most people are immigrants historically. TRY to consider that most of us wouldn't want to pick fruit. TRY to consider the fact that many, many more lying benefits scrounging pr*cks are in fact white british than any other demographic, even by relative proportion. Also, what's this about it now being an up and coming thing? Sure, a few more here and there join, as you might expect - the ignorant particularly are more likely to casually support the BNP in times like this. Yet 10,000 is not a major number in a country of 65,000,000, and it's the kind of party that a high proportion of its supporters would join. I have my political affiliations but because I'm not a zealot about them, I haven't joined any party. Yet if it was a competition about the numbers, I sure as hell would, and the BNPs numbers would be dwarfed. The BNP is certainly not the future of British politics. More, as usual, the future of far-right minority politics and the legitimised, sanitised face of prejudice.

It'll be online somewhere still. Some people would've got all that asap.

'Fraid it's not who you think, lard.

Wouldn't suprise me. There are quite a few in Holbury, and there is a prolific b-anterer who is from there...

I know some might think this is out of order, but it is, imo, positive on two fronts - 1) a significant number of the board clearly see the BNP as objectionable and 2) the users have been good enough to censor their postings, preserving the right to provacy, their human rights* etc. * BNP member: "It's PC gone mad, I tell ya.. rivers of blood, blah blah heil hitler blah".

Animal Rights Activist!!!! hahahaa.. this has been superb.

How can people with names such as Nieuwhof, Nijenhuis, Zaturowski etc, so totally fail to see the irony of that? GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!!! Morons.

R. Needler 161 XXX XXX Pinner Middlesex HA5 XXX Former policeman. Lecturer in human rights/data protection Data protection!!!! Oh god this is amusing me!! And as a BNP member, who the hell better to lecture in human rights? What a f*ck.

Mr Paul xxxxxxxx ---------- xxxxxxxxxxxx Glastonbury Somerset BA6 xxx 01458 xxxxxx 07910 xxxxx Report from Mike Howson 2/8/07: member describes himself as a witch: potential embarrassment if active

Mr John XXXXX XX Ludlow Road Paulsgrove Portsmouth Hampshire PO6 XXX 02392 XXXXXX Daryl XXXXX (15) YBNP Sup Club --- Paulsgrove? There's a shock! It's also nice to see he's introducing his son into the family tradition. Nice.