Sir Ralph

I understand the point. It was just a bit of light hearted banter.

Does this mean the players are kneeling for the tories? Mings will be furious when he finds out

A genuine question - if, as the players say, they want all fans to join them in the campaign against racism, why don’t they take on board the views of many fans who object to knee bending and link arms instead? This would likely get on board 90% of those objecting to the current kneeling.

Exactly this. The biggest issue is the reporting in the media. My personal view is that there is a significant portion of the population that are aware that racism is not as rife as the media would make out (from experience other countries have a much bigger issue than the UK). When people are told that they / the country is racist, it turns them off to the issue, when they arent. In some cases, some people that can’t articulate their views on the matter then make stupid racist comments (I’m not justifying them but stating a possible outcome). The point about the rashford mural is a good example. It was quoted as being racist when it clearly wasn’t, cue an outpouring of collective media grief. It’s now been confirmed that it wasn’t racist but nobody in the media seems too interested about that.

It’s strange how people can’t divorce someone saying that they disagree with racism but at the same time saying that the media response is disproportionate to the issue (which it has, in my opinion, been during lockdown generally). This doesn’t make you a racist or a racist sympathiser. The scarier thing to me, in terms of being able to voice an opinion, is some people can’t tell the difference. Without being able to verbalise rationale points people tend to get frustrated by the issue generally, cue more racism. This is the biggest danger. Sensible and Factual discussion should always win through.

Even if ings goes I still think we need Armstrong plus another decent striker. This would mean we have 3 reasonable attackers with tella and Redmond to fill in. Relying on Adam’s (10 goals a season) and Armstrong (has really played in prem) to fire us to 18th is a risky tactic.

The abuse the players received is clearly unacceptable but the media has lost sight of explaining the facts to ensure proportionate consideration in order to maximise their headlines. It gives the impression that vast swathes of the country and football fans are racist - they are definitely not. Also if everyone is so worried about abuse on social media where is the support for Priti Patel following the abuse she has suffered. I can’t imagine why the vocal media types aren’t coming out in support of her.

This - spot on. Having watched Williams a few times hes a good little player and I think it would be a great move to secure him for a season as we would never have the option of signing permanently.

It’s awful - he has young kids too. I hope he pulls through....

Bad business overall based on the £13m we paid for him but good in the context of (1) he aint very good (2) reduced player prices because of Covid (3) he would otherwise sit on the bench and get paid £xxxx per week.

Great bit of business - extra £5m in the kitty. Now Hoedt and Lemina

It’s symptomatic of most people who hold these views with belligerence - this is why they avoid debates because their case get torn to part pretty quickly.

At least we can agree on the fact that we can all have our view without being labelled. I believe booing is too heavy handed but believe people can voice their disagreement openly. Appreciate discussing it with you

So you don’t have a problem with disagreeing with taking the knee. Only the booing? So if someone turns their back on the kneeling is that ok?

also have acquaintances of Asian origin who attend football. They also disagree - I assume their views are valid as it is an anti-racism gesture? The group and width of intelligent people with sound reasons against this grows.:....maybe these people aren’t all closet racists. if they changed the gesture to linking arms this would mainly go away. However unfortunately the PL, Southgate and players are too simple to understand the nuances of the shameful objectives of BLM. They say they want to “bring everyone on board” but will not make this simple change - so that’s lip service “follow us or else”. Regardless I think we have all received the anti-racism message loud and clear and all they are now doing is making those who are racist even more entrenched.

Well be surprised then. Zaha has shown his opposition to it as have other players so is it really that surprising? Not had the chance to attend a game yet but would when they do. They don’t see it as anti-racism but have a dislike of what BLM stands for as an organisation and other reasons. I also don’t believe their view of kneeling is more valid than yours or mine - our views are all valid. therefore, if they aren’t racist, neither are the other people on this forum who hold similar or many others that boo (I say many because there will be some who boo out of racist intent but not a vast majority I suspect).

Antrimsaint - you keep repeating the same point. You still haven’t responded to my point from yesterday which I’ve copied below for your ease of reference. I’m assuming you will (a) ignore (b) do a funny face or (c) send abuse. All of which confirm you don’t have an adequate response. So come on debate the below and how your theory fits in this context.... So a person who is black or has dedicated their live to working with underprivileged parts of the black community who objects to kneeling is a racist? On the assumption you will say “yes” I know people who fall within this category. Please explain your logic in this context....

Exactly no response cause it’s clear he can’t logically defend his position. My post is also not a speculative scenario.

Antrimsaint - great response to my challenging of your post - “laughing face” which I take to mean you have no response to my point which has blown your feeble logic out of the water.

So a person who is black or has dedicated their live to working with underprivileged parts of the black community who objects to kneeling is a racist? On the assumption you will say “yes” I know people who fall within this category. Please explain your logic in this context....

This post thread is evidence as to why kneeling should be dropped. It’s divisive because of its BLM links. Campaigns such as kick it out were previously supported by fans. Why did people not boo previous anti racism campaigns but boo this one - there is one key difference. It’s obvious

A

I go to football as I enjoy watching it, sing and support saints and forget about the weeks dramas. Singing anti racist songs and complaining to stewards about people booing is not what I go to football for. How about players/fans instead focusing on promoting charities and welfare for underprivileged kids of all backgrounds. That’s something I would support and would have tangible benefits.

Bobby robson - “What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging, the pride in your city. It’s a small boy clambering up stadium steps for the very first time, gripping his father’s hand, gawping at that hallowed stretch of turf beneath him and, without being able to do a thing about it, falling in love.”

But if a player is under contract for a UEFA registered team they would need to wait for a contract to expire before moving. I imagine that uefa and fifa could put a ban on their clubs selling to super league clubs too, if they are no longer UEFA or fifa registered clubs. Obviously if a contract expires you couldn’t then stop a player from moving