Sir Ralph

I'm not sure about that. Most big things are in manifestos unless circumstances change meaning a new policy is required. This is a big thing that was not. They are trying to introduce through the back door 1.5 years in and I'm not sure what the change in circumstance is. The reality is they knew it wasnt an electable policy so kept quiet.

Yes I would be opposed to it but they arent proposing it so its completely hypothetical. I dont believe the idea that the Tories support this is correct (see the below) - this is promoted by the Government. There is nothing to stop any future Government enacting the 'creep', albeit a party that doesnt support it in the first place is clearly less likely to enact the 'creep' than one that does. I dont want the proposal by the current Government because it opens up that opportunity and was not put forward in their Election Manifesto and therefore the electorate (the people who the Government is allegedly supposed to serve) did not vote for it. If you can point me to Reform or the Tories saying this is party policy then fine, but it isnt so I dont think you would be able to.

Another great response there. Classic.

I find it laughable that because I dont believe that, on balance, the removal of the two child benefit cap is not societally a positive thing, that 'I want kids to suffer'. This type of statement comes from someone who has the inability to understand somebody else's perspective and is melodramatic. I understand why people want to remove the cap but I dont agree with it, on balance, for reasons set out. You have the inability to compute that anybody else may have a different view from you.

Some Tories have identified the benefits and others have identified concerns about privacy. It is certainly not Tory policy nor is it roundly supported by them. Most Conservative voters will not want it. Notwithstanding this, the comment was from a Reform Cllr. Therefore you cant say that the Tories support digital id cards, but it is Labour Party policy. Im aware of the potential benefits but the likely 'creep' into private life will no doubt be the result over coming years, which I think on balance will be more harmful. So the introduction of digital ID's and also the reduction in juries would be my key objection. Again I understand the reasons for the reform but I believe it will give more autonomy to Government to influence the judiciary.

Thats a better joke. First one was too obvious 👍

I dont live in Thailand (unless thats an attempt at humour). And also what is the relevance? You ignored the point though, funny how its Labour who are introducing the authoritarian policies isnt it.

Its fine, get personal. The bigger point is you think Polanski has a clue?

I didnt say that, as you know. Maximising benefit payouts is obviously up your street so I know you will support any increase in welfare. Its clearly very fair that someone on benefits can earn more than somebody on a minimum wage. Why do you support that I wonder?

Taking of transparency and being authoritarian an interesting video.....all of which is factually true.

Zac Polanski is a bloody fool. Nothing less. The more people like him, the quicker this country will be buggered. An fool with no experience who thinks you can make womens breasts larger by staring at them. No sane individual would employ him as the 'tea boy' let alone leader of their political party https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/798031/can-you-really-think-your-boobs-bigger/

Win the group and on paper its a pretty simple route to the semis

This also comes down to what you classify as an unacceptable comment. My tolerance for challenging all groups of people in relation to cultural or societal issues are quite wide. It’s called freedom of speech. Regardless of the group it would need to be based on real hatred or a lack of evidence for me to consider that someone’s comment is genuinely offensive. If people provide evidence or their opinion is based on life experience I don’t believe that should be considered offensive but they have the right to be heard. What you actually do by taking that approach is pushing people into a situation where they don’t feel listened to. I think that people that have this mindset have actually contributed to the resurgence of groups to the right of centre, as a protest against not being able to have an opinion without being called x y and z.

So you think we are essentially far right. You really dont understand what far right is so I would recommend not using the term until you have read up on it and the history relating to far right regimes. Whilst I would not say you fall within the definition of far left because I understand what that means, you certainly are not a liberal with a small L. Just because we draw fire from liberals (or lefties as I call them) that doesnt mean we are far right, it means we disagree with some of the views that they have (this forum has a higher proportion of liberals). I dont call you far left even though I think some of your views are extreme. That's not how it works. You need to better understand what those terms mean before you call people that.

Maybe just start of on my question about whether you think hypo, myself and nic are far right based on the definition I have provided.

Firstly this is the internet definition of far right - do you really think that hypo, myself and nic fall in this definition? By the way I didnt say you were far left I asked you where you thought you were in terms of your views. A "far-right" individual holds political views that are radical or extreme on the right side of the political spectrum, often characterized by ultranationalism, authoritarianism, and anti-democratic tendencies. These ideologies typically include elements like racism, xenophobia, and a strong emphasis on social hierarchy, with historical examples like Nazism and fascism falling into this category. Modern far-right movements can include groups like the alt-right, white nationalists, and some populist parties.

Fair enough - if he does it to me I will remind him (in a polite way). I still want to know whether, if he thinks you are far right, whether @sadoldgit thinks he is far left or some sort of centrist?

Hypo is not far right. He just has a different view from you. He is actually quite patient and considered, in my opinion. Would you say your views are far left?

We are the same person remember😉

I've seen the posts on him and knew I would get jumped on. I get the impression that maybe he's not top of the Xmas list. Unlike some of the other lefties, he has never been rude to me, I think thats the point. Disagreement fine, but being rude is unnecessary and he hasnt dont that yet to me anyway.

You know what, I disagree with most of what you say but you do actually articulate your view in a polite way, even if I dont agree. A few others on here could take note including the village idiot.

I beg to differ on your first point, noting we are only 1.5 years into the current Government. Their opinion polls have tanked faster than any new Government before them, which means it's not just me saying it. I haven't read the accounts of these people yet but these were nearly 50 years ago I believe. If these are true (and not politically motivated) I dont judge someone's character on what they did 50 years ago, especially when they were a teenager. In fact, I think it smacks of desperation to dig someone's character out based on when they were a teenager in the early 1970s! I'm sure we have all said / done stupid things in our youth that we would disagree with now. Judge somebody on who they are now, not what they may have (potentially) been once. If you were really genuinely worried about antisemitism you should definitely not vote for the Labour Party. As I am aware, they are the only party to be found to be institutionally antisemitic (within the last 5 years) by the EHRC. Does that bother you? I assume it must and therefore you wouldnt vote for them?

Yes I did. I agree there is a lack of detail and I dont think they will achieve a reasonable portion of what they set out as it is too aspirational. They werent a serious GE contender last time so their next manifesto I suspect will be more realistic as it will come under more scrutiny. As I said I would prefer a Tory led coalition with Reform as a smaller part of the coalition in order to ensure the Tories maintain control but are kept on their toes and remain centre right / right in their decision making.

Fair enough, I agree you cant make a decision now. It sounds as though you would consider Labour in the same way I mentioned the Tories / Reform coalition. However I woudnt take the piss out of you for saying you would consider voting for them based on the circus that they currently are. So grow up a bit.

So you think the best alternative would be.........