Sir Ralph

I read some of the waffle on this forum and realised that the country was in dire need of more rationale people.

He’s a Conservative, don’t bother. Us “Centrists” stick together.😂

They are a weird bunch- they keep throwing aspersions which could equally be applied to them

The numbers aren’t quoted. Could have been more BLM protesters or more illegal migrant protesters. The assault numbers on police gives an indication to the level of disorder versus arrests which is a better measure and it’s disproportionate to the illegal migrant protests. Government fact. You keep saying that each case needs to be tested individually before a trend can be demonstrated across a wide sample (which is scientifically unsound). In fact researchers tests differences specifically across large samples so that they can control anomalies therefore if a medical report came back with a 1,000 people dead from lung cancer ans 750 of them smoked, would you say there was a trend or that each case should be individually assessed before a trend could be identified that smoking caused lung cancer?

Prove they aren’t

But again you take a stance and then when challenged say it’s nothing to do with me and I ain’t saying anything.

You have provided no evidence to support your view which isn’t a surprise

Home affairs committee report. The stats speak for themselves across a large sample. Your wrong to suggest that you need to manually compare each case individually before the overall picture and difference can be considered valid. If 1,000’people dies of lung cancer and 750 smokes would you say that you need to check each case individually before you can say there is a trend?

I understand how sentencing works but it doesn’t address the point being made. I’m talking about the massive difference in policing and arrests before you get to sentencing. Around 135 arrests across 360 blm protests compared with 1,804 across 250 illegal migrant protests. What objectively explains this. Nobody has answered this huge disparity.

We’re going round In circles. The figures show a huge difference - around 360 blm protests resulting in 135 arrests compared with 250 protests and 1,804 arrests for illegal migrant protests. The stats prove a significant and marked jump in arrests for lesser protests by illegal migrant protesters. Youre justification is a perceived threat which means this radical jump in arrests is justified. I don’t think your explanation gets close to covering it. Hence why the police are being accused of being two tier.

I’m not comparing a peaceful granny protesting to a protester committing crimes. What’s your view on this statistics? Everyone has ducked them

Thats my point- you’re saying the police are justified in treating the right more harshly cause they perceive them to be a bigger threat. Why? What objectively made the illegal migrant protestssuch a greater threat than BLM where a higher proportion of officers were assaulted compared to the number of protests than the illegal migrant protests. JSO is different ad it involved respeat targeting of national infrastructure by repeat offenders so the crimes were different.

So you think they are looking to be harder on those protesters on the right than the left, despite those on the left protesting significantly more and therefore on those grounds causing more anti social behaviour (eg BLM, Palestine, JSO, etc). Point made. Glad you agree. That’s called two tier policing

The same crime is a more serious crime if I see fit that it is

So there were 360 BLM protests, 35 officers were assaulted and 135 were arrested. In the illegal migrant case there were 250 protests with 300 officers were assaulted and 1,804 were charged. Gives you an idea of the scale of the disorder versus arrests - do those figures not seem strange to you?

Yes and I agree but it doesn’t answer my question about the disparity in charges and sentencing across a wider sample for the BLM v illegal migrant protests, both of which were protests with some public disorder (regardless on a persons view as to the justification for either protest)

Yes I understand your point and am aware of these factors. However the comparison of the blm charges and sentencing and the same for the Illegal migrants is taken over a wide sample of similar crimes, which provides a trend (or otherwise) even when considering the nuances of each case. If it was only one or two cases I would agree but not across a wider sample. That’s my point

But hang on isn’t a crime a crime? Also your description of the reasons for each different group protesting aren’t accurate in my opinion. If you go down that route you start getting to a dangerous situation whereby, in the opinion of some if you assault a police officer in one protest it’s more justifiable than another situation, which is actually what is happening with some of the sentencing!

Yes - I’ve lived in other countries with far bigger racism problems than are faced in the uk so I’ve seen the relative issues with racism in different countries. I’m not going to be stupid enough to say there isnt racism but the BLM protests here appeared to me to be a knee jerk reaction to George Floyd, an issue with racism in another country. 40-50 years ago I would agree that protests to the extent of the BLM protests could have been justified (without the violence), but not nowadays. I also have issues with BLM as an organisation and the other things it stands for. My use of the word “imaginary” was probably incorrect I should have said “perceived significant issues with racism”. Anyway the point isn’t about BLM itself the point is about sentencing between the two protests.

I understand your point but why weren’t the BLM protestors deterred by their sentences - that is my question? Those protests are the ones most akin to the current illegal migrant protests for the reasons previously stated

No I don’t need to. I’ve got a sample of cases across two similar protests, in a similar time period, with similar crimes, and that is sufficient to demonstrate the difference. Hardly anyone (other than some of the left wing posters on here) wouldn’t accept the reasonable comparisons I have provided on here. Last time I got criticised for cherry picking individual cases! I won’t even get onto your views about BLM. Protesting about Imaginary modern day racism, which doesn’t materially impact society (we live in one of the most tolerant, sometimes overly tolerant, societies in the world) and things that happened hundreds of years ago, which aren’t relevant nowadays. BLM is a Marxist organisation. Anyway I thought a crime was a crime regardless of your perception of the rights and wrongs. Is it not now?

The FA is assessing Tonda, the PL is assessing Man City. Separate institutions so they will say independent decisions. The EFL also banned us from the final

The damage to the PL brand from kicking Citeh out will be too much. Imagine Haaland, Donarumma, Anderson, Fernandez, Doku etc all potentially going abroad and weakening the PL and a significant reduction in chances of a PL team winning the Champions League. We are cannon fodder / easy to brush aside for the football authorities in comparison

Havent looked into it. What I'm doing is comparing the treatment from a political perspective. Protests from those on the left versus the right. The 2011 riots werent politically motivated / driven by people from a specific political spectrum (it was just chaos) and were 14 years ago so not really what I have been comparing. Do you agree the BLM protests were unusually lenient compared to the illegal immigrant protests? If so why?

The just stop oil protests aren’t a similar comparison with the migrant protests. The major JSO cases involved deliberately planned, large scale disruption relating to significant transport infrastructure and military infrastructure. Also some of the JSO people had previous for similar actions at similar protests as it’s the same bunch of people causing the disruption. The migrant hotel protests involved some disorder, attacks on police and riot, so different to JSO. The BLM protests involved similar disorder, attacks on police and riot as the migrant protests but with published prosecution and sentencing outcomes nowhere near as bad as the migrant hotels protests.