gio1saints

Understand your point and it’s what many feel so you are in a big majority. If you really want to understand how I see it - not how many others do let’s take that for granted - then I’d like to add that I don’t find this number of defeats and this number of points from a team of this so-so calibre under a newbie EPL Manager, attempting something different, a surprise. My idea of how long it might take to reverse out of the tailspin we were in season before last and start to break into that football aristocracy ceiling is counted in years not weeks. It is not linear either - that’s the ideal but it’s also totally unrealistic. The likeliest trajectory may be more of a roller coaster. So- I’m not a proponent of “ go out and lose on purpose to fulfil some daft principles” I’m simply supportive of our club which i see trying to do something bigger than just survive in the EPL. It’s not working at present but I admire the sentiment and wish them every success. Sainrs( SR) can employ a standard manager play a standard way and get standard results ~ pretty easily. But we will always be little Southampton as a consequence (imo based on our history) and firmly in our place scrapping for crumbs like we’ve done for over a century. We won’t win the league we might get a cup run and we will eventually be back to battling relegation year on year with the bottom ten clubs in the league. Thats not authentic living or competing ~ thats servitude dressed up as football. Fed up of that. Fed up of the built in unfairness of the Leagues system that favours the bigger clubs.

Dear God. Talk about deliberately twisting and misreading my post. Wow. Congratulations.

That’s fair enough Whitey, each to their own. Some find chess exceedingly boring, 5 day test cricket ditto. I’m maybe unusual in my particular appreciating of ( rare) nuances - not the obvious - in those kind of sports and I can see same in the way we play despite the current results. Like you, I’ve watched hundreds if not thousands of Saints matches so I can honestly say I’ve seen the good the bad and the ugly in all different ways with Saints, home and away. Perhaps as I’ve aged and I realise Father Time is catching up with me I’m hoping for something different for Saints than what’s been served the last fifty or so. Because if we do what we always done it’s likely going to end the same way. With tears for Saints fans. Maybe RM is not the answer - but this attitude to bravely stick to your principles surely is. And I respect it more than temporary results.

Nope it’s not happening atm. The strong probability is that SR “ give up”. And my view then is that we will revert to our average of the last fifty years plus that ive been folliwingSaints ie mediocrity. I don’t say it’s the only way really. Miracles happen. But when you’ve watched the best of Southampton fc - and for me that was early mid eighties and it was still not good enough - I do not sense playing on the battlefield of the EPL’s choosing is our best shot anymore. There has to be another way. And it will appear crazy and its advocates will also appear crazy. And it is still incredibly likely to blow up in our fa e as is currently all too apparent. But Saints fans should be proud not angry that we lead the resistance.

We both know the answer is zero. But I hope you understand my point, which is that with FFP and the Premier League the way it is there remains ZERO chance that we can even aspire to becoming one of the aristocratic teams of English ( and world) football. Saints fans can aspire to win promotion to the EPL and then struggle to stay in it - maybe a Cup run, that’s what we have to describe as success. And we have done that quite well over the years. The season we do even mildly well ( say, mid table EPL a Cup Final, we will then sell our best player(s) to the big clubs. Big clubs, who by virtue of ring fencing their monopolistic baked in position via the FFP rules solidify there position further. The results of the matches barely matter anymore as it’s a foregone conclusion. The days when you might see a Huddersfield Leeds or a Derby, a Notts Forest or a Southampton battling for the title are over , finito. So, SR own a business to make money but know that we won’t win the league or anything like that. The cover story is that with this extreme style of play under RM we may be able to make up for all the rest of the barriers to getting up there. The theory goes that if you carry on playing by the big guys rules you will just get the same results we always get - Saints one big cup in a hundred years no league winners trophies…..George Orwell paraphrased fascism as a jackboot smashing into one’s face, forever. Playing the way the others play is the same as agreeing to have that jackboot smashed in our face, forever. It means continuing Being Saintsy like we have been all the time not win anything etc. Playing the way RM asks is 99% going to give the same result - so my view is what’s the loss? I don’t consider relegation as a purely negative setback if that’s what happens. It can be effective negative feedback to improve and refine the system he espouses.Defeat and Losing is often the best form of learning. His way of playing “ Russball” is not even new, just a slightly more exaggerated version of what many clubs already do anyway- but at least he believes if the players master it there is a chance we can win league win cups. My view is we can always return back to mediocrity like we have been practically ALL our history - but I’d rather be outstandingly bad in the cause of being outstandingly good and stay that good than just a forever also ran mediocrity struggling from year to year. I know many will disagree and suggest we will go down multiple leagues and the club will fold etc etc. We’ve been there too btw so I don’t have fear of playing Walsall away in Div2. I have more fear of not trying g to escape the net that we and most the other teams are trapped in. Our freedom and integrity is more important than obsequiousness to the EPL. That under SR and RM we have a set up still prepared to fight the system should be a matter of pride ~ not disgust and fury from supporters.

Classic straw man argument. (a) I agree it has been demoralising for supporters. (b) it has ( often) been fucking dreadful (c) but where the fuck - apart from your insinuation have I said that it’s not? This part of thread is only saying at times bit unlucky. Fuck me, you see my name and make up whatever lying shit you like as a response don’t you?

Ryan Manning had a perfectly good shot on goal, which went in, disallowed. Both wolves goals were clear fouls. Another day that’s 0-1 Saints. Yes we’ve been Lacklustre at too many times and totally so in certain matches- and absolutely we’ve been toothless. Strikers been shite. But that’s not the issue of the post. I just saying we also been a tad unlucky. Should not cause too much consternation amongst those reading. Few correctedRef decisions we in bottom five still with the other four not very good teams - but not rock bottom as we are.

We been unlucky a few times. That’s cost us 4-6 points.imo. Thats it. You disagree? Ok. Perfectly fair. But 19 shots at Newcastle and no goals? Three diabolical Ref decisions v wolves? We are so unlucky at times this season that there’s no green to rub off anymore. I’m not saying alls great, But not everything about Saints is as bad as some here keep saying. Barely anybody pipes up to say so. Dont mistake that silence for everyone agreeing with all that’s said anti RM on here.

That’s your opinion Whitney. I pointed out maybe 4-6 points could have been for us but for bad luck.. There is nothing getting straight about whether I have to accept your opinion, that we deserve nothing, it’s just an opinion. I think we’ve been a bit unlucky. At times. Thats all. It’s not the reason we are bottom but it’s part of it for sure. “Putting me straight “ in your usual manner does not make your opinion more right. “ Getting what we deserve “ is similarly an opinion. I do not follow your opinion nor need putting straight on it. It is so easy to be black and white about our situation bottom of league fall points when there are obvious nuances to the picture. Nuances I point out but often get drowned out by the it’s all bad crowd.

I love Le Tiss. He was the BEST player in the league when at Saints. The BEST. And the system still fucked him and Saints over not playing for England. You so wrong and you don’t really understand me at all if that’s what you think.

No, I’ve always supported Saints passionately - even the 90’s. If anything what I hate- and this is with the benefit of five decades supporting Saints hindsight, is that I was ( or perhaps more accurately AM) still conditioned to feel grateful for being slightly better than a relegated team ~ as a Saints fan ~ while the usual suspects lorded it over us year after year. I don’t want them going on about plucky relegation avoiders Southampton anymore. Id like us to break that ceiling and smash that fucking monopoly that the big clubs have. We don’t have enough money to do it though. And FFP means we probably never will. So we will never have the best players- or not for more than a few transfer windows that is until we sell. So how are we going to do it? Appointing a top Manager like David Moyes to play effective but compliant to the status quo football is simply more of the same Ive seen for over 50 years. I want Saints to be the best club in the fucking world. AT least with RM there appears a plan. Not working though. But it’s not more of the same. Keep trying I say. Don’t give up and concede revert back to the same as rest of them.

I have not see the plan so cannot tell you accurate physical targets but assuredly bottom with this few points is not hitting a target. It would, however, be in the realm of possible or even probable eventualities preseason for SR. All I have is my impression that we are trying to break the mould trying to do something that should be impossible. Being bottom three is not and should not be coming as a surprise to SR. There are so many examples in so many spheres of life in which persistence courage and stubborn never say die belief beats better stronger bigger challenges. Unlike many I also see merit in most of our performances to date. Points not there yet, but, to me, clear signs in game performance that it CAN work. Don't believe in luck but we certainly have been fucked out of at least four or six points this season already which would make the position more realistic and we have some decent players. ( not enough though- too many not good enough). IF and WHEN it clicks it should be orgasmic. IF it does not, and time is run out already probably, we will have to start again from the Championship. Not a shame. I enjoyed watching us win for a change last year. Not Sry if that sounds “ unambitious” but if anything I am more ambitious that the RM out crew as I do not want the endless mediocrity we experience as Saints fans to be our forever destiny. I’d rather we go down playing and believing in a cause than whimper and grovel around the bottom of the league a Few years - and then go down when it’s our turn anyway.

Appreciate the fair way of asking - thank you. If RM was found guilty of criminal activity he should go. If we go down two leagues he should go. If he loses his composure and starts biting back at fans, blaming them - he should go. Otherwise I think he has a two or three year contract? If he has not delivered in that time or we are not sufficiently progressed on the long term plan ( that I have not seen but can guess at) then do not renew. Week by week results I’m not so obsessed on as the rest here. I try to look longer term. RM is there not just to deliver for SFC ~ but to deliver for SR. And frankly that’s the more important part. If he is not delivering to SR he will be gone soon enough don’t worry. I personally do not want that to happen and hope that a man we’ve given two or three years to fix something will be allowed that two or three years to fix it. As others have said- replacing him is unlikely to change the outcome of this season. Second half of this season is basically a free hit for the concept and playbook, without the pressure or fear of relegation.

@Farmer Saint is one of the few talking sensibly on here atm. Maybe running a farm gets you realistic about real life but I don’t think his assessment of our current situation is too far wrong. People should listen carefully cos he knows his stuff. Even if he is a part of that satanic devil worshippers cult that taunt and tease saints fans every transfer window. 😁 Having said that, I personally disagree with his and the general consensus opinion of RM and our tactical approach on here. That is largely to do with my personal perception of how long it takes or might realistically take - and what might be necessary- to change Saints from what they were 18 mths ago to where I and most Saints supporters would like them to be. And where is that? Well put it this way, I’m tired of us being also rans, of being plucky losers, of losing our best players year after year and trying to “ compete” on an unfair pitch versus the “ Big Boys”. Brief Moments of happiness interleaved with seasons of mediocrity and struggle is the quick 1 sentence history of our club. I despise the system that perpetuates this and I resent that it keeps not just Saints but about 90 other clubs in the leagues formally in there place- permanently. If there was a vote for having a revolution in football I’d vote for it. But that’s not happening. Extreme times call for extreme measures. What RM is doing is nuts. It’s crazy stupid. It’s extreme. Fuck it we’ve tried everything else my view is go all-in on this approach for as long as SR have the funding and see where we get to. Can we create a new football superpower legacy ? We’ve not done so in 100+ years of trying mainly conventional ways so hold onto your courage let’s go! WWE are probably going down anyway. We’ve been in Div one and got back. Long timers have seen the cycles endlessly repeat. This way of doing it is different. Disastrously so? Maybe but relegation is relegation and we been there a bunch of times and it does not scare me. Disaster to me is doing what we always do and historically have done - sack the manager abandon the plan lose the belief- and What scares memory is NOT trying to break this stranglehold and seeing the game eventually get snuffed out. Cos that’s what’s happening.

Mike Channon was a generational talent agreed. But you asked who does that today? Closest we have is Tyler Dibling. Everything points to a rosy future for him. Last year I’d say KWP was our only player regularly running at and past / around players with the ball. Mateus has already ghosted past players with the ball on a number of occasions this season and he too looks destined for greatness though it’s early days for both him and Tyler for sure. But both are at least starlets already.

Detecting sense of humour failure.

It’s not just you. 😁. And it’s been most matches actually. We just not got the recipe right. Yet. Maybe we won’t ever - but Saints under RM will keep trying despite the wailing. PS. Please don’t tell the others because it upsets them as they think players only go on the pitch to massage Russells’s ego ~ not to actually win matches. 🤩. True. To be fair, All the players say it as well. Theres tons of quotes from these players saying the same thing “ I only joined because Russ told me he wanted a Trump sized ego and said I was the player that could help him get there “ or “ when Russ called me and said how do I feel about making him the least successful most overrated Manager in Saints history I leapt at the chance”. But I suppose the best one was from Ramsdale “ Russ told me that my lower back would be strengthened beyond belief the number of times I’d have to bend over and pick up the ball from the back of my net, that clinched it for me, I’ve always had lower back issues and this, finally, was someone who offered a professional and rational way to get better”. 😇

Jeez. You are the desperate one. Can you not just use ignore cos you can’t help posting personal abuse to me even on a simple congrats post even.

Congratulations THB! He joined Saints and he must have been hoping one day that joining Southampton Football Club and playing regular minutes despite his age would help him to get exactly this. And it has. This is absolutely a terrifically validating result for him, SFC ~ and RM. Other ambitious young players considering joining lowly Southampton- or indeed currently at the club - wether it’s us at the bottom of EPL or relegated to the Championship have a contemporary example right in front of their eyes now. No need to reference young players who got International call ups from decades ago. It CAN happen if you are at Southampton. 👏

Enjoying the thoughtful posts on here. That’s more like it. It’s not always black and white, in fact rarely if ever. I guess why footie can * be fun. * I never like losing it’s not fun. But I go to the footie not just for the result. The feeling at final whistle last week was more than just a “ win” and three points at that stage. Same for the Final. It’s something transcendent. And in order to b this feeling to really matter it’s often the case that it needs be in the most improbable and difficult of circumstances. I wonder how joyous Man City fans felt when they beat us 1-0 compared to us beating Everton. I’d say ours was probably a 9/10 and there’s was a 3/10. Both3 points but vastly different impact to the supporters. And longer lasting.

Interesting analysis. Thank you. Bears out what I’d been thinking vis Downes propensity to play forwards. It does seem he is the key go backwards hold possession passer a lot of the time. Maybe, against championship teams, our squad was superior so endlessly recycling the ball as Flynn tends to do ends up being a good thing as we end up facing against all the opposition and or their weakest area eventually. But in the EPL I think the endlessly recycling thing is not so effective and, there’s good players everywhere and so if we are in a promising but unusual position on the pitch, and flynns got it, it’s probably not going to be a chance creation or a shot - whereas with some of the other names mentioned you’d feel it more likely. All last season games without Flynn we were obviously not as good. IMO. BUT This season he actually may, arguably, be holding us back - especially when you consider Fernandes and Dibling and Lallana Yuki and KWP all seem switched onto “find a goal mode”. The absence of Smallbone has also raised my eyebrow. Has that been a blessing or not? He certainly was making late runs into the box last year that Flynn cannot. But, and this is probably his defence, playing as that 6 I guess he is responsible for ball retention and recycling so maybe should not criticise him too much as he’s the best we have in that role!

Agree. Winning this one when a draw was fairer probably maybe does not make up for losing to foxes or drawing with Ipswich - both unjust on saints and easily draws or home wins there’s a strong case - results been unkind to a degree in that way imo - nor failing to take at least a point at Newcastle. nor missing stupid penalties when on top v Man Utd which changed game tone completely. Boscombe and forest were just shit. Arse was ah well. It’s small margins in the EPL. Don’t get run of the green you are sacked. Get some luck- you’re a genius. But as Kipling wrote - success and failure are two twin imposters. Oh, and haaland would have scored both AA other chances I think - or at least got them on target!

Hypo? Upset? He was fucking born upset. 😭 . Saints beating Everton means there’s been a rush on hankies at his local Asda he’s that gutted.

Fair analysis. MOM for me was Fernandes. Easily. He, sadly, looks like he’s too good for our mf. Expect him at a top six club next year for £50m. ION Ryan Manning gave us more attacking options on the left than BDD and MC combined have all season. Which is not a good thing but kudos to Manning after all the criticism he’s had, good to say decent job when he’s done alright. I also thought AL was obviously high class. Shame his legs aren’t but his mouth certainly works and he is a leader for us alright. Gave kwp a bollocking I saw first half for what seemed a marginal mis-positioning situation.👏

Seconded. The vast majority of RM haters on here are allowed to post whatever shit they like. Including abusing pro Russ posters. Normal posters with a balanced -not-obsessed with RM viewpoint tend to work out very quickly how toxic this forum can be if you are not in the anti RM “in-gang”and just don’t bother to post due to the amount of disgusting abuse comes flying if they do. So, it’s mainly otherwise normal saints fans telling each other how much they hate hate hate RM and how fucki g stupid cu ts everyone who thinks otherwise is for thinking different. Ask the 7000 Northam cheering him at full time if they hate him. Did not sound like it to me. But yeah bunch of mr. Angrys always got to find a scapegoat on here is a majority of course