gio1saints

If that is your criteria for proof of inability to learn ~ results and points on the board, you are right Charlie. My point is that “ Inability to learn” and how many points we have hit after 7 games are not the same thing. Many sticks to hit RM with this season- if hit him is what you desire - but, “ inability to learn” is not one of them.

Respect your POV but I do not agree. If we only look at the results, individual errors by players and tactical fuck ups by RM in certain matches to date ~ yeah the case is pretty clear. - BUT - Not learning and making a bunch of definitively bad tactical decisions or having a brain fart whilst taking a penalty or letting flukey or offside goals are not the same thing as not learning. For example, six months ago we might have gone to Arsenal and got beat 9-0 playing a more open formation. How many times have you seen Saints start a big lone striker up front under RM???? Never under RM actually. Our tactics on Saturday actually worked for the most part. He, rightly, understood that we needed to be more solid defensively and adjusted team & formation according. Even TP got on the pitch and played alright! The possibility of a hit and run away win at the on form second best team in the country was a decent possibility. If you don’t agree that RM ~ and team - did show learning, did show tactical flexibility, did show ability to amend the supposed tactical dogma by the way he set up the team for that match - fine- but “ incapable of learning” is hopelessly off the mark wrt to RM. And there’s been evidence in more of the matches than I care to recollect that certain new things are working - Aaron is working, Tyler is working, Mateus is working, THB is working, jeez even Adam Lallana is working when he’s on pitch. Call him a slow learner if you need to but inability to learn is NOT one of his, and our players, weaknesses. The players you see that are bit by bit developing - and showing quality- on the pitch might just turn into a team one of these games and surprise you yet. All ( apart from THB) absent from last years teams. Extreme reluctance to detour from his Golden Path - yup, but inability to learn, to change it up, try new things, new players ~ and no evidence to show it either ~ that’s simply not true of Russell Martin.

I’d stick.If you want to get good at something best is to learn the hard way.Want to stay up and prosper Dragan well, you have to be good - not just a EPL survival specialist. PS which is what we used to be btw. Play these EPL teams, learn from them get battered at times by then but still heads up competing and the second half of season return fixtures use what we learned first time out from enough hard lessons to start winning games and those 3 points. There’s no fast way. First half of season is essentially back to school. The Best managers ( see How close Arteta was to losing his job back then..) somehow get continuity. Despite fan mood changing by the last result. I say they Just have to keep playing - and yeah getting battered- but have the right attitude to learn learn learn and never give up. Longer answer ( don’t read if you get bored by such stuff as this) : I want Saints to be one of those “good” teams that can play differing styles of football, all at the very highest level. Long ball or high press or PBF or full press or low block always great set pieces with the best work rate strikers who are deadly, ie they fucking score - defenders who can defend- and attack- class mf’s. But wishing for that is not going to make them appear next week EPL ready. The squad for this year is largely set give or take. Can they play better? Can they be more motivated? Ideally I’d like them to be both but I don’t sense a real issue with motivation- just play style and it’s execution plus a certain dark resignation once the first goal goes in has set in. The play styles to be unpredictable and to change as many times as is necessary as per opponent and in play/match as often as manager sees fit. So they don’t know what to expect unlike now. Back to realism though : Far as I can tell two years ago Saints were shit at EVERY style of football versus EVERY type of opponent and our version of mixing it up in-play involved swopping the Lucazade for red bull at half time. And team morale was “ all for one and all for one” it was terrible and what we have now is miles better believe it or not catastrophe theorists aside. Last year we got quite good at a certain type of football and towards the end even showed ability to mix it up somewhat tactically. This year that certain style and even the mixing it up have all been not working. The certain style of play has not been good enough- largely imo because the fuckers who were meant to score for us are all useless atm - and our defence seems to have a three goals conceded minimum written into contracts for every time we enter the field of play despite a bloody good goalie (imo). A new Manager is not going to sign five new quality starting players to join Tyler, Aaron, mateus and err THB make that 7 new oven ready decent EPL players. He’s going to have to coach-out all the bad stuff and coach-in the better stuff - all in a matter of weeks because if we are ditching the boss after seven games after what he gave us last year the new guy has got zero credit in his bank of saints fan goodwill. Sure as eggs is eggs unless we have got, say at least 7 /8 points from seven games ( relegation form still for latter part of season and from where we start from - but better than what we have atm) the fans will turn on him too. I’d give him a 60/40 against chance which means fair chance we’d need another new manager come January. That one will probably be Adam Lallana until end of season though so rest easy everyone will be happy with that lol.😂 So, getting rid of RM, aside from being effing expensive will not be the only managerial change for us this season is a fair bet. So why go to all that traumatic drama and we look like clowns charade when we can stick with the Manager and give him this season ( and maybe the next if we go down?) Eh stupid idea is it, terrible notion is it? I don’t think so. Seems sensible longer term planning to me especially if by end of year we are down but we sold Tyler for £75m to fund our championship campaign.

So, if you are right and it’s not or only partly because Russell is “ out of his depth” why the hysteria when our unproven EPL Manager and “ strong championship level” squad are essentially where every bookie and every other saints fan thought they’d be? It’s a self righteous wankathon of I told you so on here atm… But hey ho. Saints will try to get Potter then told to eff off with a smirk and end up with either an ex premier league superstar fancies being a gaffer, and/or a German Portuguese or Italian coach who is meant to be the next coming of the Lord football-wise that nobody has heard of before or the even less EPL unproven in management Adam Lallana as a caretaker. All infinitely better choices of course and all instantly “wrong” for the I told you sos on here. And all, indeed, offering far greater chances of staying up & playing good non boring not defensive but super tight high scoring football than sticking with the Antichrist RM. Guaranteed. That is if they last the 7 match probation. Just hope that the new Manager can teach our forwards which is the goal and remind them they are there to score or even shoot from, say penalties or three yards out. Hopefully new manager will get Saints to play better, proper, football( no GK to CB passing allowed) only proper goal kicks for TP to fight for every time - oh and the rule about no shots for forwards to be reversed plus the one about no long balls or crosses also. New Manager will need to get a few of those motivational posters on the home changing room wall saying “ get it in the mixer “ or the cunts cannot score from Row Z”. Id imagine a fines system in place - if we hit more than say four passes before we get into last third everyone gets fined£1000 each so we end up playing proper direct attacking football minimal touches ~ not that fancy passing it around shit like last year which obvs don’t work at EPL unless you are a “ good” club, like most of them are. Maybe one day too we would be a “ good “ club though not sure how we are ever going to get there trying to replicate 1980’s Wimbledon FC.

Don’t think the team looks as bad - given the squad - as the reaction on here suggests. No Cornet no BBD no RF no AA no Les all ineffective latterly. WTF do you lot expect? He can’t pick Haaland and De Bryune you know. Our squad is bottom three material. Our forward line in particular is championship. Stewart is going to do a hell of a lot of running today - by himself by the looks of it. Lallana is clearly unfit. Will unavailable. So Manning is playing. Surprised but wtf guys? Ever thought maybe Taylor was dropped for a reason? Should we play Edward’s or Wood in a back three? God you’d have paroxyms. I know it’s pointless giving a reasoned post at this stage because if it’s not going with the mob view here you will get abused despite being a saints fan just like you - but if RM picked the same team as away to Bournemouth he’d get slated- but he’s changed it in a few ways- and still gets slated. That means he has got no chance with some of you. Fine. Just hope you are not the loyal travelling support. FWIW I think it’s an especially cheap shot to deride his team ( OUR PLAYERS) selection ahead of playing Arse away. Sure you’ll all look clever dissing our players now when we get thrashed - but what eleven could we put out in what formation by what manager would not get beat by them? Support them that’s put out there is what we should do and yeah feel free to criticise the selection - but these convulsions of anger over our own 11 starting players is what I’d expect from Pompey fans - not saints.

Well there’s not a lot anybody can do about it if true. Except moan about it a lot. 😄. Thete is a small chance they read this forum and having recognised your analysis as accurate decide to empower you with all sporting decisions on behalf of the company. Or indeed if you are unavailable, to try sell the club to anyone else, subject to your due diligence of course. 😁

You will hate this but it’s Saturday morning…..That Ipswich goal apparently had an XG of .04 - it most certainly was very unlucky for us to concede from there. Just like the Rothwell goal we will not see one of those again this season. Having said that I do appreciate your existentialist approach to football- it’s all about the here and now. Saints history gives us something to talk about and compare to other than the very last match in the EPL though - for some of us anyway! Our saints support is not based on just the here and now or last result after all- well not for most of us! 😇

Where do you rate our squad in the EPL? I think bottom quarter is generous - bottom 3 / 4 accurate. We are arguably 3 players, at least, short of a mid table team.

If Russell was sacked Tuesday morning ( w/l or d) would it be because according to critics he’s got better players than our current position in bottom five or so? Or because of his style of football? Or because he has lost the dressing room? I personally think our current squad is not top ten material - and after 10th it’s a dogfight. I don’t think SR are going to change the style of football. If they sack RM we will end up with an RM mk 2 ~ IMO~ And I do not think he has lost the dressing room. Quite the opposite. I do not see RM getting sacked at all ~ as long as he and team show they have fight( they do - ask Jack) retain integrity ( ie don’t start flip flopping on how we play) and show signs of development and improvement ( score and pick up points) and of learning in general ( defending in general). Which they are.

Ageee. Current forwards are not converting anywhere near enough from the chances created. Bad finishing basically. Bad luck or bad players? I personally think Archer will come good but I’ve not seen anything from Cornet yet and BBD has been simply a waste of space at left wing. AA started the season nervous as fuck and has not got going at all either. If the finishing from this above was even below average we’d have had two extra goals maybe three from games played in my opinion. As it is it’s been crap. We have created sufficient goalscoring chances from our play - ino - and play that’s disparaged by many atm - but just not scored from them. Forwards not delivering basically. Chances go in then the build up play looks clever, chances missed, Martin out. 😳

I think If we continue with a back four he’s only playing cup matches as it is. Jan and THB will start. Thats what I was expecting this season with the odd late subs if we had CB injuries & suspensions. In a back five there’s more competition as Charlie Taylor can do it, BK obviously if he’s still here, Jack and of course Edwards. I personally doubt we will see much from him in first team action unless we are v unlucky with injuries but I do hope he gets some opportunities. How are they going to learn otherwise? do expect mistakes and nervous errors from the kids too, especially early doors. They often just need time at that age.

Is that Nathan Wood, current England under 21 starting centre back that you are deriding? You’ve seen enough of him at EPL level then to decide he is not worth much? Time to write him off? 😉 How long incidentally do you feel you should give Saints young u21 players in the EPL to acclimatise in minutes, or probably seconds as it seems in your case? I can see a time in the not too distant future when four of the England U21 starting 11 are Saints players. When was last time that ever happened? So let’s not write of any of the kids so fast eh? Some people who know more about football than us obviously see there is quality there.

you’re right. I’d forgotten his pen. If he is on the pitch then it’s a good shout. Having said that and knowing this forum, maybe it’s another career suicide choice/trap you’re setting for RM. RM can be accused of stupidity if he chose RS to take it and he misses but also same if he scores because the bloke has not scored a pen since 2020.

IF AA is not on the pitch : 1. it’s possibly career suicide for RM to allow Archer the chance to make amends - if he misses then the lynch mob for Russell will be out pitchforks and all. If he scores he should not have put him in that position either…no win there so it’s a pass from me. Just like his last penalty Effort 😭. 2. IF BBD is on the pitch and there is no AA them I’m guessing it’s him. Though he probably will NOT be on the pitch given his form is bad. 3. If there is no AA, no BBD, and Archer excuses himself then who is next? Some options: If it’s at Bournemouth I’m not certain letting Weeman or Lallana have a go is the right choice. Though they would be headline making penalty takers. Captain Flynn does not seem to fancy pens, Mateus’ penalty in the shootout was a bit flukey down the middle imo whereas I liked THB’s effort and if he’s on pitch it’s a fair shout imo. On balance though and with an eye to building his confidence even higher I’d go with our young nerves of steel Tyler if he’s on the pitch. Slot it in Tyler! 😁

There will probably be at least two or three ex Bournemouth players on the pitch for Saints who will not want to lose. This will be feisty I’m sure. I think we do not lose this match but more likely a draw than away win due to our shooting boots shortage. Unless we get a pen and someone else gets to take it. 😁

I always liked JWPs attitude, work rate and willingness to play wherever asked. His time at right back for example shows he put his team ahead of his personal preferences. When he left it was fair enough though I’d hoped he would have got a better team. Those here who still denigrate one of our best players of recent years are really just moaning for the sake of it. Good bloke, Intelligent, great SOH, hard worker, very good player. Will be a Club Manager one day, maybe even at Saints IMO. * * on that managerial note have to say Adam Lallana is absolutely bossing it out there when he’s on the pitch. Instructions a go-go from him every minute. He is Putting in some fine credentials for a near future club management role for sure.

Well we disagree again Whitey. I reckon RM’s Saints do have intent on scoring a goal and they all ( first team squad anyway) share intent on glory. In my eyes, it’s just that the intent in scoring and the passion comes in a new wrapper for RM led Saints. That you - and many others- consider saints boring or sleepwalking footballers is a fair comment. Do not disagree at times either. But I think that’s too broad a brush, too general a classification. Reduces the issue down to a not really all that helpful base level. That ground level argument, which has a lot of support I know, devalues or blatantly ignores some of the positives and some of the changes ( yes that stubborn idiot Martin does make changes after all but the legend that he does not is stronger than the reality at present) already trialled. There are many adjustments Russell has made along the course of these opening matches - indeed he is now criticised for making too MANY changes. Too few or too many. It’s Goldilocks territory! 😂. But of all the faults you regularly identify one Im certain none of the players would agree with is your assessment of them as passionless. Some are not as invested as others - but the bulk are all-in far as I’m concerned. The Manager, Flynn, THB, Yuki, Tyler, Mateus, Weeman, Ramsdale with his knee slide when we scored - this is not a passionless minority of the starters from Saturday.

I personally like the thinking but - No - that would not wash with many / most on here. A generalised “anti-novelty” approach Is not a saints fan thing at all though. All of us are genetically hardwired to resist change. It’s a fundamental tenet of Darwinian evolutionary theory. If it’s perceived as different it’s almost automatically considered dangerous by our brains. Some unhappy people spend their lives constantly in fight or flight mode with high cortisol levels and lower life expectancy accordingly. But luckily the vast majority of us find a balance. And are able to both objectively and subjectively analyse life. We learn as we grow up to “ manage” that automatic response but it never totally leaves us because it ultimately keeps us safe from extinction. And vestiges of it are always present in these threads. That which we don’t understand also comes into that category. If you did not get Maths at school - you might now viscerally hate it. Don’t get Martin Russell’s approach to football - you might viscerally hate it. This helps explain a lot of the extreme anger and unsteadiness many fans feel watching Saints play in this style of theirs. It’s understandable. What some people realise though is that novelty and innovation are VITAL for survival. Those who adapt quickest survive and thrive best. Those that fail to innovate eventually become extinct. Butnovelty and innovation are innately risky paths and for every success there are many many more failures. See our start to the season. It’s safer, in the short term, to not be one of those, for sure, most Saints fans very happy with that - but medium - long term we will likely end up a Dodo in the EPL and in any other league.

Hang on a minute. This is an out of date criticism of AR and RM. I think you are several matches at least out of date. Basically sinceRamsdale started.. Very first minute yesterday ball came to him and he put it in row Z as he should. No faffing. I thought to myself- message understood. Im the biggest critic of six yard /penalty area faffing around but AR regularly hit long balls.,he also passed short when it suite HIM. There’s been an understanding that iexclusive use of gk short pass has cost us more goals than anything positive. RM may have given that instruction to him but I also think Aaron is senior pro enough to tell RM how he is gonna play - and it’s not like Alex or Gav basically - it’s way way more secure and a big improvement. You basically picked the wrong stick to beat RM with. Of many available you picked one that’s not valid anymore!

Nice summary @austsaint- think I agree with pretty much all your commentary. WRT to Taylor at LB : Ipswich spent the first half more or less targeting our LB area. They had numerous attacks constantly attempted overloads and put many crosses from that position dangerously into our box. Taylor was under constant pressure. That was not a coincidence. The minute McKenna saw KWP was not there he obviously reasoned it might be a vulnerability - and it bloody well was - we dealt with all the crosses but it was too hairy too often. Note the number of crosses from Yuki’s side by comparison- much fewer or nil ( I think). Saints finally got the idea by end of the half and by second half that tactic was neutralised - so fair play to RM and team also for making the adjustments to McKennas insightful tactics. I think that Charlie Taylor coped reasonably well. For a less experienced LB ( like Larios perhaps) that could have been a career ending confidence destroying debut start but it certainly put the brakes on all our left sided attacks for rest of match. Left Winger Ryan Frasers highlight reel was a sliding challenge to concede a corner in second half ( or was it our goal kick) but you get the point. We were neutered on the Left hand side. And, despite him appearing pacy, Fraser ( who we all love for his character) is not actually all that pacy for a winger anymore - he will NOT be first onto a ball that gets chipped over the top ball towards goal in a flat race versus any athletic right back such as the guy marking him yesterday. And that’s every right back in the EPL I suspect. BBD will not even bother to race any right back - he will just try kicking the right back in a sneeky way to get the ball 😂 Also- It’s not as if Ipswich had superstar unplayable players on the right wing IMO - and with better crosses we might have conceded. So- as long as KWP is fit and I don’t care about his contract status, he should be starting. AND: BBD should be not starting or close to on the pitch whilst we have Sam Amo in squad also. Other teams are / will be frightened of our best player, KWP, ( but oooh Tyler is gonna be that guy soon,eventually) and they won’t be doing what McKenna did to us when they see he is not playing vBoscombe Athletic for example.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 There were some positives. 😅 Vast majority of fans at the match around me thought it was an improvement. There was no booing or big hate going on at SMS- the support was given some great examples of the promise - but also the fallibilities inherent in this team. Many of us were purring with excitement at some of the performances and skilful moments from the likes of Tyler, Mateus, Lallana and yes , Ramsdale. World class saves btw. But all annoyed at some of the duff stuff also amd me personally at how good Ipswich were. I secretly Wanted them to be weak - but they were not. Overall it felt like we had to fight like hell for that point- and fight we did - which reminds us to reflect once more on how easily we been giving goals away before and how valuable they are. But the fight was evident. Stupid free kick fuck ups can be rectified, lack of fight a bigger problem and we didn’t have the latter., Don’t know if you watched the times we played them last season but Ipswich were certainly better than those two games yesterday - and we showed that our game is on the up too. Did not rate them last year but yesterday fair dos to them, decent team well managed. Fair result overall. It’s not a match to throw everything out the pram over though, imo. 😇

He is playing like a shorter but nippier version of BBD. Certainly he is Not as offensively minded as when he’d was playing for us last year. He had the big giraffe marking him and I thought he’d get joy but he never took him on or turned him once. Him and BBD are very “ professional” about how they play safe safe safe don’t take chances keep possession but neither added value today. I guess at least Weeman has some defensive values which BBD does not nor did Sam E. I’d have put Sam Amo left wing last fifteen and said give it a go son. But we don’t have that option…

I think Archer played so-so / alright and was basically unlucky a few times. The balls sent up to him if it was RS might have stuck better. RS looked a nuisance to me up front when he came on and I’d keep him there. Certainly gave us a physical presence in the middle up front. Please stay away from defending deep & giving away stupid free kicks which he should know better though! BBD looks shot to me. Sorry to say it but Not a good buy on performances so far imo. Does not have pace to go around a player does not have tricks to go around or through a player does not dominate physically except by playing rough giving away free kicks and has just one predictable pass when he’s at Left wing - the square ball inside. Had his chance and blew it over the bar. He’s a nasty player alright but don’t see much else. Surely Cornet offers more or indeed Kameldeen. Ramsdales two great saves. ✅. Would be goals most other goalies. Lallana class is permanent. Mateus will be a star ( though probably not playing for us) as will Tyler. Ipswich played better than the last two times we played them but they did not win this time. That is progress no matter what and that sockeger of a late goal draw probably deserved on balance of chances. Lots to criticise first half but overall that was our best performance of the season and we are now seemingly able to put together longer and longer spells of domination. Too few points but performances improving. Those calling for him to be sacked are not getting Xmas card from me or my dad either. 😎

Thanks @Badger for your comments. Russell is one of the clearest examples ( to me- I make no assumptions a for the reader!) of ( perhaps or even probably) foolhardy resistance to life’s unfairness. The powerlessness often inherent in life due to “ the way it is”. The reality in our world is that the EPL is like an oligarchy and it’s really unwise for anyone to speak up or defy the masters. RM is Berated everywhere for his insistence on playing this way. Carries on not winning that will get him sacked. Terribly weak, short term decision that IMO. This conviction he has is often transmuted into arrogance - by his detractors. There’s no doubt you need strong character and will to keep saying the paradigm is faulty and there must be another way when everyone is calling you an arrogant prick etc. Yet persist he does. Good for him. And good for Saints. I’m proud he is our Manager and is sticking to his principles. I predict the time he gives up those principles- his main strength - and tries playing football likes he is told, Saints will have blown any chance of breaking this achievement stranglehold for another X years. Back to mediocrity and knowing our place.

I’ve got a feeling it’s sometimes quite related to whether the team is winning or losing. if yiu measured how long any team thats winning, especially last third of match spends in goal kicks I’d wager it’s significantly longer than same for team that’s losing.