gio1saints

And this is one of the most obvious negatives from the current durection of traffic for football. The players the manager the style of play even the colour of our shirt all bring uniqueness to our support. Once it’s reduced to an algorithm which says new squad for the EPL new Manager, new style of play and new shirt required even obligatory each season - there is less and less of a chance of a lasting relationship being developed or even created in the first place between supporters and team. it’s simply just another transaction in a transactional impersonal world. Pretty soon it will be just generic red team versus generic blue team in a virtual stadium but with a worldwide paying audience. Or a stadium filled with the corporate sponsors on freebies more likely.

I would have thought it fairly obvious what the SR play is/was. It looks misguided in retrospect but I’m uncertain many of us would have done different if it was our own money. You get more hits at finding a future £50M + player the £10m a player route. Buying one supposed “ banker” for £30m then potentially selling for £50m + has less upside ~ and arguably equivalent risk as it’s all eggs in one basket. What if that £30m player has a career ending injury? With three players for £10m each at least you got two others who could help recoup your losses. We have an inverse example, possibly, with RS. The policy looks a mistake but it’s forgivable for a club our size. The particular aspect that should be questioned is that it seems hardly any of these “bargain” buys are proving any good under SR ( MF excepted). Which in turn suggests a scouting / talent identification then development problem. That obviously includes the Managers too! Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford and Forest appear to have much better talent identification and development than us for example -and are (or were ) in our kind of price shopping category. The buy cheap buy twice adage is often true - look at how many FB’s we have….and the opposite when we actually pay market price for a proper keeper in Ramsdale. Incidentally the reason that Ramsdale is a success is because we did not need scouting reports or data analysis to say he is a good player NOW - too much weight has been given to obtaining players who might be a good player IN THE FUTURE. This has clearly exposed and undermined first team competitiveness - and our club league status has been taken for granted essentially. That’s the big Mistake.

Krafts badly handled resignation(s) occurred in just the same way he has overseen the club. Not handled it particularly well. Resigns as Chairman in January then steps down from the Board in February. WTF? Chairmen usually are primus inter pares when it comes to decision making voting so this seasons rubbish decisions OFF the pitch (especially not replacing JW imo) must in large part be laid at his door. Our recruitment strategy pre season being a fundamental error. My impression is that Krafts has done the right thing in leaving - but sadly that's not going to help us this season. Spors seems to have the cred for his role but do we have a new chair lined up yet because surely it cannot be Dragan next season? I'd absolutely prefer a footballing industry professional with mucho league experience rather than the money man.

From what I understand ( and no big surprise either) he is going to have a lot of work to do. Juric only fancies 5 or 6 in the current squad. Would not be surprised to see 15 + out and 10+ incoming during post season. That may or may not include the manager and his sidekicks. I think the latter will largely depend on what Spors thinks if Ivan’s ability in these last few matches and his assessment of wether he has got what it takes to get us out the Championship. It seems ever more apparent that we may need one team, including management, to get us out the championship, and another, probably including management, to make us competitive in the EPL.. Hell of a lot of buying and selling and inducting and integrating -ahead.

I think objectively we look slower and less fit for sure. And some of that is mental but a lot is bad training. Rest time is just as important as running up hills all day. To use “rest days “ as a historic stick to criticise RM or current state of player fitness is convenient - but it’s also wrong and too facile an answer. My suspicion is that the obvious lack of fitness in our squad is less to do with rest days and more to do with the type of exercise and fitness and game training they do/did as well as diet and importantly, the ball possession fixated approach we had under RM. Ball possession and ball handling techniques elevated at the expense of basic fitness imo - when the latter should always come first. We may have impressive physical training facilities but they are only as good as the trainers and the trainees. Rest days are not the issue.

Juric was a hard to criticise prospect given the cards SR had. He has /had credibility due to the Torino spell, he was/is known for a more proactive pressing aggressive and direct football- which many fans were calling for , and he was both relatively cheap ( compared to some unlikely names touted) AND available AND amenable to an 18mth gig on what was obviously a sinking ship. He was also not obviously an ex top player fancying himself as a manager - a la Neville, Gerrard, our very own RM and, notoriously, Wayne Rooney. A foreign coach from a country famous for defensive ability, which seems a la mode, and can speak fair English, no, well he ticked pretty much every box. Perhaps a fair criticism would be that his spell at Roma was a total disaster. Fans hated him, players hated him, even the press blamed him. All my Italian friends expressed regret for me as a Saints fan on the news of his recruitment! Saints players are not Roma players but I guess some fancy themselves as top “ballers “ so running hard and man for man marking is not for them - it’s for dinosaurs and donkeys. Cue rude awakening and the dysfunctional shit we are watching every week from our team. I don’t blame SR for picking him and I don’t blame Juric even if it seems he has been a failure so far. But I do blame a lack of energy effort from many of the squad, and that’s v upsetting. One example : BK has been fit enough to be in the bench last half dozen games. Yet when he came on it was obvious to me he was breathing out of his arse after ten minutes. Team is basically UNFIT!

Juric does have a bit of a problem on his hands convincing this bunch of players to actually play in his style after 18 mths of another style being drilled into them until it was automatic. Neither does he have the benefit of having a bunch of super fit athletic fighters in his team able to execute his style either. Technical ability aside this squad do not look as fit as anyone we’ve played so far this season - Swansea excepted. So I get the feeling he’s becoming increasingly irrelevant in players eyes, especially those who are going to move at season end ( which is at least half the entire squad- a team-full at least). Those that play are playing to get attention for themselves and that it, so it’s not a team anymore. He won’t win this season so they can try put themselves in shop window. To cap it all we no longer have any sense of spirit or on pitch leadership either. Downes was never a particularly vocal captain, Jack Stephen’s has impressive 😄aggression but not so good self control but Jan is positively mute whilst Adam never is fit enough to get on the pitch for all his talking when he’s on- and poor old Aaron is having canary fits at the rabble in front of him when he’s got the armband. I personally would appreciate THB given the armband and giving out on pitch bollockings to players not working hard rather than the current silence. People maybe are upset nobody “fights”for the shirt anymore. It’s been this for many many years. When a players kisses the badge he’s 99% kissing his bank balance and social media following0.91% he’s pretending it’s the missus and 0.01 actually doing it for the club and the fans. The only ones with loyalty are US. Saints used to be able to avoid relegation by sheer guts tenacity (and an MLT.) We don’t have gut s we don’t have tenacity and our version of MLT ( TD) is still too young to take on that responsibility it seems. Next season is massive project reset.

I saw little to no sign of Juric ‘s preferred man for man marking style on Saturday. IF that was our players attempt at implementing that style it was a 0/10. There was no Press and no intensity no evident group collective endeavour to swarm the opponent and regain possession. We neither attacked nor defended with any evident cohesive plan. Unless you can call passing the ball back to Aaron from kick off so he can launch it high and long to the right back who marks 5ft 4” Kameldeen a tactic. I was expecting aggressive, hard pressing high pressing physical kind of pressure to be put onto Brighton ( and every other match we’ve played under Juric ) to make up for our skill deficiency. But it appears obvious the squad of players we have don’t want to do it - or cannot do it, or both. This squad is going to be completely turned over if he is still Manager next season. He will need less artists more athletes first and foremost.

Just fwiw, terrible tactics by Ivan Juric PLUS He has clearly ( to me) lost the changing room. Not one player willing to break a leg challenging for the ball, not one player saying I’m not having it. Not one player realising that there’s 30,000 supporters wanting them to at least put their foot in. It was as apathetic a defeat as ive ever seen.

Given our passivity You can almost guarantee if Jack Stephens gets on he will foul someone straight away, if he gets more than 10 minutes expect at least a yellow…

What’s most alarming is the lack of intensity. We are nowhere near Brighton most the time. It’s not intense death metal football, it’s more like morris dancing.

Brighton Comfortably one of the worst away teams at SMS this seasons. Still good enough to score against us of course. Highlight I think is kameldeen skinning his man a few times (=+ £2M-£3M to his fee) and BK getting applauded for, erm, jogging onto the pitch pass g to someone same shirt as him (=+£1m to his fee). Expect Brighton to score second half cos they should be 3 up so we will need two to get a draw at least imo. Unlikely.

I share your sentiment but to be fair to SR I’m not certain managing saints as we get relegated was all that appealing a prospect to ANY proven success and proven ability Manager. Those criteria ( proven success proven ability ) have an implicit upward career trajectory to them - which getting relegated in first season and the lottery of the championship in year two rather pisses on. I think it’s pretty clear neither Potter or Moyes wanted anything to do with us and taking an “interesting” championship manager- especially is problematic given our recent experiences. Fans might rightly say “ have we not learned our lessons “ if Danny Rohl were poached for example. Allegri and unemployed high end managers like that are simply not going to touch us. Recruiting Ivan - a baggage free foreign coach with a sellable to the fans CV seemed the easiest solution for SR - with as much chance as success as the more contentious recruitments they could have tried. Whether he is preferred for next season despite his Board support remains to be seen. I sense his honeymoon is over and some players are getting very busy with their agents…as is our don’t fancy it injury list lengthening ….lets not be surprised if our starting team next season has 7,8 or 9 new faces including the manager!

His last recorded injury was a calf injury October 24. Five months later he must be able to train ? Any sign of him at Staplewood on the pitch?

My thoughts on Saturday and in general : Thought the five minutes after we scored was about the best I’ve felt at SMS since last season. The crowd was up noise was up and they were pinned back. We were attacking and players were even exhorting the crowd.It looked like it could be our time …but after that flush of blood it was the same old story… Fernandes is a very good player and deserves the accolades he’s receiving. He looks for all the world like “ a good player in a bad team”. The sort you spot immediately as a scout and report back that he’s one worth watching. Same for Ramsdale who is also a good player in a bad team. They plus KWP will have no shortage of enquiries to stay in the EPL - imo - and won’t be at Saints next season. Sulemana and Tyler will have to leave to improve - as it’s clear Saints just don’t have enough good players to avoid them being constantly double or treble teamed. Sulemana would look better playing for Liverpool ( or any top half epl team even spurs and man utd yes !) for example, Dibling too. Both will leave for teams in which they can truly shine. Jan Bednarek many appearances and stoic is his middle name but really - i think he’s a busted flush and Saints should take their chances with Wood, Edwards and other young CB’s we already have for next season. Sell. I’m being pragmatic and figuring THB won’t fancy another season in the Championship so expect to see him at Palace or Fulham next - or Burnley might take him back if they go up! As for BK send him away if you are not gonna play him. Mental. Flynn Downes may never play Saints again or he may if we get Danny Rohl. Who knows. But I’m sad he’s fallen out with club over the Ipswich move. I’d of left him go. Don’t think Will is loving it either so would not be surprised if he goes to another Championship club next season - he is not EpL standard anyways. Ditto Joe who will be in Turkey I reckon. Bree and Manning on the other hand will be fine in Championship. Archer ( and Armstrong if he stays ) will score plenty too. TP may even surprise and stay - which I hope he would - but I’ve a feeling he too will leave in the clear out. Adam llamas is an interesting one as his “ experience”as a player is wasted in the championship - unless of course he’s made the new manager or assistant manager at SFC that is… That should thin the squad out and hopefully SR will then add some quality in the right places. Another Fernandes would be lovely but it’s more likely to be another set of kids with potential…( potential high resale value that is) ..😇

Warm up looks lackadaisical I’m sorry to say. Those hoping for a brutally fast do or die start - like me - being totally in their faces -all over the pitch - may be disappointed. VERY relaxed looking squad. Too relaxed. Maybe Aaron was practising how far he can kick ball. That’s not a clue is it? 🤓 Please let them be saving energy. Please. oh and btw - WILL SMALLBONE IS 100% going to get a yellow. Get your money on! NB 7/2!

Except nobody is saying that. One poster has suggested both Rm and IJ have had weak cards to play. Fair point. @Trousers your ability to sit on the fence is almost legendary in here. I’m unsure I’ve ever heard a definitive opinion from you that was not couched in your recognisable style …. So you can imagine my surprise when I read that youve invented a secret sect of RM worshippers who wallow in SFC defeats and rush to post the equivalent of “ Ivan out” and “ Bring back russell” after each miserable result. Really! 😂

Playing without a centre forward against a weakened Burnley who everybody knew were more interested in getting promoted than winning this game was simply a bad management decision. Ivan decided on a false 9 approach before the match. Fair enough. But stupid imo. But he should have seen what the Burnley line up and formation was - and how ineffective we were against it - and adjusted saints team and tactics accordingly during the match. Instead it was just more of the meandering same and even when TP arrived we were so lost in our shit play we could not improve. That our team played like it was a friendly when we should have been bullying them from the start pisses me off . It’s the FA cup and we already going down. Fight! We sleepwalked to defeat. Yet again. I did not think that a Juric team could be so limp. But maybe he knew that this shows SR we need more meat in the team and he’s thrown our cup run to make a point for next seasons recruitment? Probably overthinking it but I prefer that than he could not see or know what to do about that shit show yesterday. It was embarrassing bad. On a par with the home to forest U formation loss in terms of tactical ineptitude.

Yup. This is about our level.

Yup true. I went to Eastleigh for the preseason ( infamously Adam Lallana injured himself in the warm up…a portent of his future availability..) and was reminded of that different vibe you mention. Even so, the Eastleigh want to be the next team to “ make it” into the big time. I will still pay to watch and retain my ST but I see little point for many today to bother with SFC. It’s become just a generic EPL/Championship football club on a Sisyphean mission ultimately ending in failure. What are the redeeming features? Are there any outstanding principles associated ( and valid) with Southampton FC anymore? I just completed one of the SFC questionnaires and I swear you could cut and paste any football team into the questions they are all so meaningless. It’s like let’s pretend we have a unique identity when in fact it’s obvious we do not. It’s all the same just different shirt colours.

Football has had its heart and soul eviscerated over the last three decades. Only the older supporters know what it was really like back in the day to go to watch your team play, home and away. Compared to the supporter experience today it’s chalk and cheese. Is it worse? Is it better? Some of it is certainly better - I don’t miss the violence, though it’s still there, I don’t miss being near crushed to death on open terraces either. But what I do miss is the hope that the matches Saints play actually mean something - not just more £££ to the latest round of club owners and media oligarchs milking the game dry of everything that was beautiful about it. Not having to pay £60 for a crappy nylon shirt when before anything in red & white & black stripes would do. You support a football team today you are basically a tool. Being used. And yet some of us cling onto the memories of what it was before. God knows what younger generations (under 30/40’s) see in this spectacle nowadays. Multi Millionaires chasing a ball in a ground owned by multi millionaires filmed by multi millionaires wearing shirts and equipment owned by multi millionaires. The only poor saps are those actually watching the damn @ game@. I’ve got my excuse cos I know what it used to be like but relatively new “Saints fans” Have you asked yourself what is it that you are actually supporting?

You can buy a four course meal ( chips, a sausage, more chips, nice snickers bar) with an alcopop from Poundland get a bus there and back and still get enough change out of that £5 in Preston to pay the leccie meter. It’s £10 to park your car within a mile of SMS…Cannot charge less than the St Mary’s freelance car parking entrepreneurs / dodgy peeps I reckon.

Goodness knows what ABK has to do to get a start. All I can think of he is going to play v Burnley by which time it’s too late. Or maybe he is going to play for rest of season. We know Jack Stephens limitations but he got on the pitch no problem for Ivan yet ABK must feel like Johnny no mates. A wealthy Johnny no mates I might add getting paid a shedload of money each week NOT to play. And that grates. Trying to sell a player who reputedly has a shocking attitude is twice as hard when he does not even play reserve team. If he cannot get on when all our CB’s are crocked it really does not look good. Getting a valuation on him is like pick a number time. Is it his potential? What he did three years ago? Can we really believe he is so bad neither RM nor Ivan will touch him yet he is still sellable ? Only the most desperate will even try to do it. If he was at a French Club I’ve no doubt Saints would be signing him at 22.59 tonite though! We cannot even give him away it seems. Wotchagonnado ???

It's a nuanced point but I think you've hit the nail on the head. Given that some/ too many of the players are showing themselves not up to EPL standard in either RM or IJ style it seems obvious that the best time to start building a team of players who may be able to both get us out the Championship AND compete at EPL is not next season, but frankly, now. Having to ditch all our currently EPL players then recruit a whole squad of new players just to get out the Championship, and then ditch 90% of those as well as they will ( on current evidence) be unlikely to be competitive in the EPL is a horrific prospect. Makes what Forest did look reasonable. Basically do not bother getting any players name on your new shirt cos there's hardly any chance they will be with us more than a season if we go up. This can be moderated a little if we start the clear out now and only replace with players that (a) will be able to do what they told to get us out the Championship and (b) have got the potential to compete at EPL level. Agents are rubbing their hands at SFC.....gone are the days you could recite a team from such and such a season...

Saints transition in style is obviously a work in progress but I sense Juric feels it will be ultimately more winning than losing - certainly at Championship level next season. Hence his ongoing optimism about his own and Saints future. In retrospect, the intense scrutiny the EPL handed us and the extreme dogma of RM’s style rules meant Saints had to play the perfect game for 100minutes+ to win a match - or lose - and often lose badly. Many here predicted the collapse but others, myself included, applauded the idealism - especially in such a corrupt closed shop arena as professional football. Under Juric we can now seemingly win and compete without having to look great in doing so. Before we could ONLY win or compete if we looked like peak Barcelona or Man City. It gave us some beautiful team goals and moves - but the intense high players and Manager got when it went right now looks akin to a heroin addict chasing after that sensation they got from their very first fix. It was 99% a suicide mission. I can totally understand why footballers and the Manager and the club would want to play that way though. I can also see why supporters like myself respected the idealism and absolutism. It makes our players our team our club look like football Gods when it works. Playing the beautiful game beautifully must be the ultimate feeling for a pro- even for amateurs. Juric style is more like just old fashioned hard work. It’s not a mission it’s not a cause it’s just roll up your sleeves and be a professional footballer not a demigod. And it’s been effective for years with many teams. Not ground breaking with the quality of players we have at present but Juric should be good enough to get us straight back up next year if he gets the players he wants after the expected end of season fire sale. Im pleased for Ivan and I’m intrigued by the Burnley match now. Big clue as to how we will do next year coming up!