gio1saints

I think what @Dman is saying ( although you’ve never been a fan it’s fair to say) is that “paying up” RM’s contract at Xmas because he’s fxxcked up and we need sack him and get a new leader will cost less without a big new pay rise and contract extension. It’s obviously cheaper if he’s on the same deal and contract as he was when he joined us in the Championship. Alluring but shallow thinking that is imo. True in one narrow sense - but untrue in the real world where a manager leading team to EPL promotion more often than not gets a ( deserved) contract review. In any case what if his original contract terms say he would get that review if we went up irrespective? From saints pov if we are doing ok and a wealthier club comes in and tries to headhunt him- we get a bigger fee if he left because of the foresight in improving the contract. If we are not and sacking is the best option I don’t think the extra compensation required would out balance the need for a new capo. So, no, not short sighted. Actually normal and fair to reward and motivate the guy for his success. Not demotivate him by refusing.

Yup I think consensus was that Bree >Manning on last seasons evidence. Im not sure that technically Bree is the superior player across various KPI’s - manning can probably cross better, dribble better, run faster for instance - but in a very important one he was. That important one was defensive positioning. Mannings offensive mindset / propensity to attack meant that on breakdown he / Saints were often exposed down that flank. The same might be said of KWP - except KWP is a way superior player who caused more problems for defenders than forwards caused him - and breakdowns if and when they occurred could not be as devastating because opposition generally tried to double up on him when he ran with ball. Teams actively played to use the gaps Manning left on his flank and would often switch it accordingly. Manning also had a strong tendency to “ tuck in” and give his opponents the flanks - and the space to run. Bree seemed to have higher propensity to her physically closer and shut down danger quicker. Theoretically with a back five RM should be better - but in a more conventional back four you’d want Bree imo.

Compare Fontes articulate explanation of football match versus Rooneys mumbling nonsense. It’s embarrassing. He speaks better English than Rooney does. They should hook Rooney off before he embarrasses himself any further.

Blind optimism backed up by looking at the not so much better if at all better performance of our rivals…. Fans of Germany ( need injury time equaliser against the Swiss), Italy - need injury time equaliser v Croatia , France (cannot beat Poland) & came second in group to Austria, Netherlands ( lose to Austria) and Belgium who lost to Slovakia must be tearing hair out by your high standard of performance evaluation. Are they all rubbish also? They all have World Class players. They all have top class quality. Only Spain have showed excellence through three matches. Maybe Portugal will tonight also. And we don’t have to meet either until the Final. If we can get past the bottom ( easier) half of the draw. By all means stick to your pessimistic narrative because England never actually win anything so, sadly, you are unlikely to be wrong - though with Eng fans like you it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - but England are no worse than some of the other big guns and can certainly play a lot better - and have an excellent chance of making the Finals. Get behind them!

99% of England fans are disappointed yet we won the group, job done The draw we’ve got means we cannot be playing any of the best four teams left ( Spain, France,Germany and Portugal) until the final. Excellent. In our side of the draw it’s Netherlands who lost to Austria. Italy who got torn To shreds by Spain Holland and maybe perennial non achievers Belgium. Nothing to fear. We will be in the final. But Spain look way better than everything to me atm so they’re my favourites. I support Italy as well as England and can tell you now that having a crap qualifying group round and struggling through on minimum energy minimum effort minimum goals plenty criticism from fans even minimum points is the sign of Tournament winners! Italy make a habit of it so much - won the last euros and several world cups with bad teams yet great team spirit - and it’s not accidental. Portugal won the euros on back of 3 draws. And without Ronaldo. I think there’s many pluses out there for Eng fans so don’t get too obsessed with the nonsense expectations that England are Gods of football and all must kneel before us. It’s bollocks. England to make finals 👍

I agree sign a top keeper as #1 but You do realise McCarthy is already on £50k pw? There is no alternate universe in which the reward for promotion to the EPL for the starting goalie is a pay cut. And it follows that even if you retain him as the back up his salary stays at least the same - and the new #1 is going to be on more. I personally do not think we can justify spending say, £150k pw on four goalies. ( new GK, Alex, Gav and Lumley). That’s one too many and Alex is the obvious heaviest wage to chuck off the balloon so to speak.

This Goalkeeper situation is quite the conundrum. Re-signing Alex may include a join fee (or loyalty bonus?) plus an extended contract ( presumably 2-3 years) - and wages (which were £50k pw) so at least same - but maybe more? Given nobody took up Alex over several windows the season before and he ended up not even being in our match day squads before the final five games his state of preparation and professionalism shown in those matches was a testimony to his character. I’d go as far as to say his presence and performances may have been the difference between promotion and another year in the Championship. I say that without slight on Gav who kept goals throughout our unbeaten run lest we forget, yet it was clear that towards latter part of season his levels dropped. I’ve my own theories on that but blunt fact is Gavs XG was poor for a supposed best gk in the league. Alex just showed what he can bring to the team. For me that was a mentally fit solid back to basics approach less trying to be the best footballing gk in the world. But is it better to keep Alex or bring in a new goalie? My personal view is that it’s time Saints bought a top goalie - but if we kept Alex on I get it, but I’d be subdued, disappointed - but still supportive.

He would be obvious first choice gk. Our biggest signing ever since Shilts in that role and boy what a sigh of relief for everyone to know we have got that guy at the back in goals. Massive confidence inspiring move ahead of the season. We can but dream though as he obviously wants a bigger than SFC club move - apparently wanted pay parity with Courtois who is apparently on €15m pa! Two signings- one at CF and one at GK to be statement signings. Top quality starters. Thats what I’d like to see.

Andriy Lenin. 25 yrs old. 1.91cm ( ie giant) Ukraine national Goalkeeper in final year of contract. Been loaned out 3 times. Now back at Real Madrid again but won’t be a starter. Transfermkt has him at €25m but he is in final year so I think that’s negotiable. Salary current €2.5m ( c £50pw) What a coup that would be and he has resale value also. 0.5/100 he would join Saints but that would be a fucking statement…

The Offer from al -shaheeb to Che is apparently worth up to £130k pw including performance bonuses. 🤪. Considering the standard of player he’d be actually PLAYING against there it’s not such a bad gig compared to sitting on the bench somewhere cold and rainy in the Midlands for less money.

Callum is not the only fish in the EPL experienced goal scoring striker sea but his record compared to our current striker (s) is pretty clear. He is the kind of experienced goal scoring striker Saints should at least be considering to replace Che. There are others in similar categories and price/ salary ranges - so that’s our marketplace imo for this key position. No cheap options and no unproven - we already have three strikers at saints who are unproven at epl level ( 4 + if you count the kids) so the next one needs to have insta-cred, imo.

£110k pw apparently and has interest from Saudi.Nobody knows what Che is asking for but it might not be far off £100k pw on a free. Plus a loyalty bonus. Prob 7 figure. The actual financial difference is probably less than £8m but in return you get a proven epl goalscorer- which che was not. If the choice was Che or Callum but you need pay £8m more if you want Callum I think most pragmatic ( not romantic) Saints would say do it.

Callum Wilson is A player that might be on our radar if we get to the end of window with no replacement for Che and are rather desperate ( you know what I mean no reflection on that good player). Callum Wilson is in the last year of his contract at Newcastle and according to The Athletic might be available. He obviously knows how to score in the EPL. My guess is his fee might be c£10m though transfermkt put it at £12m. He is 31/32 years old - though his current wages are higher but not madly so than what we’d like. He is certainly a goalscoring upgrade on Che though. Not an obvious one for now but if we have not got an experienced EPL goalscorer (that’s not Danny Ings) signed up by late in the window he may enter into the thinking. I think he might work well in our set up - and we are obviously in process of finalising the RF deal with NUFC so there are good comms in place. Not totally unfeasible.

Don’t think anybody is panicking at the possibility of losing kwp but I’m not sure everyone is as sanguine as @hypochondriac about him leaving and potentially being replaced by a defender with s as showreel who may be the next Mane. Or may not. Im certain most Saints fans would rather kwp sign a new extended contract and want RM et al to be highly resistant to the idea of selling him. It might seem a no brainer to you for him to be sold but I still think there’s a strong financial case for him extending and us getting at least another year in the EPL out of him before SR cash in. The “cost to change” is not just the money banked versus what’s spent on his replacement. The last two FB’s brought in under SR on the cheap have hardly set the world on fire - Bree and Manning - and both came with decent reps- so selling our best player for another gamble full back may not be as cute a move as it seems.

I hope you are wrong and I hope my fears wrong also. Another issue connected to that is the knock on effect on our other potential purchases and renewals. IF KWP gets sold this window and replaced say internally or by this Japanese left back nobody has really heard of, how much less likely is Flynn to want to come back to a weakened squad ? Or Alex to re-sign? Or Che? I think at least one statement of intent signing ( or contract extension agreed in the case of KWP) is required - and that’s not including Flynn THB or even the return of Stu, Che or Alex. I’m not sure Adam is that signing though there’s an argument to say it is/was so if Saints are good enough for him they are good enough for xyz player perhaps. Somehow I think one more is needed. A star goalie perhaps?

What happens with KWP could be the most revealing move of the SR owners mindset. My personal view is that they will sell KWP at a strong price this window. And replace him with one or two relatively unknown fB’s who fulfil the moneyball criteria. Either frees low fees or unknowns. nb. Something that supports that was the success of RF as a wingback. Playing 3CB’s allows for offensive FB’s so players like rf, Rm,Sam Amo, Larios, Bree less so benefit. Sam and Kameldeen not so 😀

PS that offer would cost saints c £13-£14m over 3 years assuming KWP left in a free at the end if 3 years. Compared to costing us £20m next summer if he leaves. It just shows that, sadly, there is financially a lot of room for manoeuvre and it’s nothing to do with kicking a ball around a pitch but all about market trading skill. The winning clubs are the best at the latter.

KWP contract expires 30/6/25. if he’s worth £20m today then that’s probably the highest he’s going to be. IF saints lose him for nothing next summer that’s a massive gamble. It’s entirely in Saints interest to extend his contract. The only way that might succeed is with 💰because he’s not going to win medals and trophies at Saints so - increase his base salary - AND give him a loyalty bonus for doing so. His current salary is £36k and was £50k last time in the EPL. I think Saints ( hypothetically) might be pitching a three year deal by a double your salary line to him- to £72k plus a loyalty fee bonus of say £3m paid in three yearly instalments. PLUS a release fee of > or = to £25m. So he’s able to leave but only to a financially strong club. If that was the package I’d hope KWP would strongly consider staying where he’s loved and sign up.

Current transfermkt valuation is £20M. I personally see that as a bargain because as FB’s go I see many who are inferior to him starting in the EPL most weeks. IF he goes into final year without a contract extension his valuation will drop by the month. I think Saints will be doing all they can to make him sign that extension ( and salary increase) but probably asked encouraged to do so with a release fee clause probably at £25m - or higher so if a big eight comes in he can leave. Would be a pity but KWP signing the extension would be his last gift to Saints and I’m sure all would wish him well.

Thank you for the last point. Grassroots football refereeing is a thankless task. At times last season in Southampton Yourh leagues it felt like I was a verbal punchbag because VAR made it seem that Referees decisions were not to be trusted. Even at youth league level u18! Players and Managers seemed especially empowered to argue every decision - instead of getting on with the game. I cannot see any incentive for anyone to try refereeing at present. Even at amateur level you are treated like shxx. For less than minimum wage. You get £30 for around 3-4 hours including travel to and from games plus paperwork online.

One reason that happens is because there will be nobody waiting for that cross. KS short cutting the PB system with his pace and ability to go past players is not on the same page as the rest of the team. I do not agree he has no Instinct / brain or is no good. He’s just not being used to our best advantage in that system. He looks utterly frustrated and hapless each time he plays. Put him in a different system he might look world class. RM approach has done wonders for team consistency and reliability in possession - but it’s anathema to someone like KS who relies upon spontaneity and flair so much. RM has failed to train him successfully - so far. That’s why RF is perfect for that position- but KS looks shit. RF plays as much with his head as his talent, KS is still mostly about the instinct/talent. Coach that out of him or amend it to fit the team- or see how good he can really be if you give him ball in right places and support him? That’s a Dilemma for RM but one I think he has already decided on. KS is too high maintenance for him. I still believe KS IS a rare talent, but RM has not unlocked the secret to getting it out of him, yet. And maybe never will as he may be sacrificed to fund the purchase of s player RM might have more success with.

England win this tournament it will be despite of not because of Southgate. And be in no doubt ENG can still win this - despite him. On the day we can beat anyone. What’s bothersome is that The England’s manager is one of the highest paid International jobs in the World. You’d expect world class insight tactical know how etc for the big bucks. He looks no better a Manager than when he was managing Boro, worse even. His in game management of last nights match was a shambles really. This isEngland not some bloody WR #134 nation.

Coventry cost themselves a pretty penny not selling Callum O’Hare in January. Gamble on getting playoffs cost them maybe £3-£5m on him alone. Now they get nothing and he goes from ( apparently) £10k pw to a lot more plus a sign on fee. Happy days for him if he gets a chance in the EPL or with one of the relegated teams most likely.

I thought Spain v Italy showed Saints what to expect this season. Italy technically very good and at times play the PB system out from the back beautifully. Like Saints. But equally Spain swarmed them and regained possession in the Italian last third numerous times and could have scored a sackful. Probably like many teams will attempt to do to us this season. Italy “only” lost 1-0 to a brilliant Spain team ( insert most top half teams EPL at least I guess) and only by an own goal - so perhaps may consider the tactics “ almost” succeeded. But Spain win that game 8/10 times if they keep playing that way. And Saints may keep losing ( and heavily) unless they find variation in their pattern of play. Like we did last four matches. Spains domination of that strong Italian team was the outstanding team performance if the tournament so far- for me. They are who RM should be attempting to copy.

Good point. Che is one of the better players in that Scotland team. But the way Scotland have set up means he gets less of the ball than virtually every other player. Saints seem to play a more democratic way sharing out the possession but, frankly, I prefer our better players to have as much of the ball as is reasonable - ie give it to KWP as often as possible - and don’t mind if some if the others don’t touch it much but just have to run around a lot.