gecko

This is one of my biggest concerns, too. On the assumption they are wanting to play the long game here and have factored in the onrushing relegation this season, I could understand why the board aren't jumping the gun. (doesn't mean I agree with it) But 15 games in, and so far he seems to have learnt absolutely nothing at all. So it's a colossal risk to expect that him at the helm - for the rest of this car crash season, and a subsequent year with even lesser players, against lesser opposition - will get us anything other than a repeat of this season were we to get promoted again.

So Everton have lost to two of the worst Southampton sides to ever stink up the Premier League... talk about embarrassing.

agreed. It's easy to say he needs better players for the system. And I fully expect that a team of better players would be doing better in this system. But I also think they'd mutiny soon enough, much like what we saw with Jones, where the better players clocked immediately that he was a total fraudster Better players would simply paper over some of the gargantuan cracks in Martin's playbook. The fact is, we don't have better players, and we still seem insistent on playing this "system" and expecting different results. (I'll caveat that with the latest few games where we have certainly been better going forward, but interspersed with the inevitable cock up at the back)

Couple of James Bree thunderbolts and we're right back in this.

According to SKY, the on-field decision was that Armstrong was interfering (20s in) https://www.skysports.com/football/video/30998/13265286/ref-watch-im-50-50-with-this-was-southamptons-goal-vs-brighton-rightly-ruled-out my opinion, according to the rules, is that Arma was offside for trying to play the ball; therefore offside. But I do agree that there are good arguments for him not actually interfering. My biggest frustration is that we've now been on both sides of the same thing, and been shafted both times. Just like the shirt pulling against Leicester; same thing, different result.

As @saintant has already pointed out, why is there more than one correct outcome? He's either interfering or he's not. If the Arsenal one is adjudged to have been "correct enough" to say he wasn't interfering, then it should also be fair to say that Arma's wasn't also isn't interfering. Irrespective of what thresholds need to be met according the current set of VAR rules, we seem to be in a scenario where we can see two almost identical scenarios and have the laws applied differently. And that, imo, is not the correct result.

This is the point Russell was trying to make. That the on-field decision carries weight... and that because the on field decision was that he was interfering, that the VAR has to consider whether it is a clear and obvious error. When everyone in the world can see that that this was pretty much a carbon copy of the Arsenal one, and many others, that was given the other way. So because of all this "Clear and Obvious" bullcrap, we end up in a situation where two identical issues get opposite results. And all because of the on-field ref's decision. So it stands to reason that, IF the on field decision is more important than simply getting the correct outcome, then we may as well pack all of VAR's subjective powers in, and go back to simply having the ref and linesman officiate the game. A year in the championship has shown me that the game is much better for not having VAR at all, we still argue over the same stupid refereeing decisions, only it takes longer for it to happen, and they still don't get it correct. FWIW, I totally understand why he was given as interfering. I think the arsenal one should have been called off too. However, at the same time, I also think it's reasonable to say that Verbruggen won't have positioned himself any differently had ArmA been onside, or even not there at all. We can't simply assume that if Arma wasn't there, that he will have positioned himself at the far post - no way a prem keeper leaves his near post open to defend a possible shot from the far side. So in that respect, Arma's presence doesn't really impact anything. If we're now saying that the ball passing near anyone who's offside in the box, because he's affecting the keeper, then there should be a lot more stuff being ruled out for this. VAR just needs to get in the bin; or they need to fix it fast. And until then, I'll hope that the Champ don't adopt it.

Enough games to prove his style of football wont work at this level with players of our level - perhaps things would be different if we had City's budget for players. But we obviously don't; so why the board and Russell insist on this suicidal manner of play is beyond me. His comments are even more frustrating. You can't spend all of training, teach people to keep possession all the time by slinging it around at the back, and then bemoan mistakes happening at the back. I'm not going to say outright that this squad would be doing any better with another manager - although it's hard to be doing much worse than bottom tbf - but the frailties of this playing style were obvious to everyone during the Champ season. It's even more so this season - he needs to adapt, and fast, or get out.

Wow, I was only going for a little bit of light hearted sarcasm... but if it helps, I too believe that BBD will get nowhere near the Golden Boot for a lot of reasons, some of which you've called out above.

So what you're saying is that BBD will start scoring next game, and therefore is definitely going to (almost) win the Golden Boot this year. Guess we'll be staying up after all.

If only there were some statistic he could use to aggregate how much of a problem it is... maybe goals conceded? 19 in 9 games PL only, or 25 in 12 if you include the EFL Cup. It's getting beyond ridiculous.

Anyone else keep coming here expecting (maybe even hoping) the title has changed? "Confirmed Gone" The jury's still not 100% in for me. however, It is so frustrating that all the frailties we all complained about last season have not been addressed - I don't know how many times I've read people on here saying something like "if that'd been a Prem team, it would have been punished" - low and behold, fast forward over the summer and we're being punished big time for all the needless passing at the back. A couple more games with no improvement will be enough for me to call for his head.

Couldn't agree more. It's Tuesday night, they have the best part of 5 days to recover. And we all know the 1st team need to sort the results out; this was a free hit to build some confidence Instead, we have Nathan Wood...

The Utd game this Saturday? or the away fixture in Jan? ;-)

Surely this is the perfect opportunity to make use Goztepe. It solves three problems in my mind: 1. It strengthen them massively. He's already proven he's more than capable in the Turkish league 2. It gets him off our wage bill 3. And obviously most importantly, it sticks both fingers up at Trabzonspor for being such smug twats, by not only not giving them the player for cheap, but by actively loaning to a club they'll play against this season.

Not to sound too pedantic, but surely an "understudy" would be someone that is: young, inexperienced etc. Tell me why a 19y/o Shea Charles, who has come from one of the best academies in the world and was already capped internationally, isn't a good fit for a Downes understudy on paper? My issue with him, was him being shoe-horned into CD at the start of the season, making numerous match-losing cock-ups. Once he was actually playing midfield I'd say he was far less concerning - ignoring our horrible results w/o Downes - for a youngster who is likely to get much better with a guy like Downes now in the team.

I'm sure it's already been noted by others, but one of the many things that really grinds my gears about Martin is his (apparent) inability to adapt his game plan for the team we're playing. Every team has a weak point, and ours seems to be exploited with regularity. But it never seems like we know anyone else's - we just continue to knock the ball around a bit, then recycle it. We were terrible last night, and I'd suggest that like many other games, we looked piss-poor because Leicester made us look that way. Their press, and the way they counter, is what did all the damage - it's been clear to everyone that we are a bunch of fluffers when put under some actual pressure near the back. The Liecester coaches, as well as many other teams much worse than them (bristol etc) have taken points from us as a result.

It was peak Saints to claw our way back from a massive deficit only a month ago, to within touching distance of the autos, only to piss it all down the toilet on the easiest game of our final four. My bet on how this plays out: 1. we'll beat Leicester, just to get everyone's last scrap of hope up again 2. morale boosting demolition of Stoke 3. we'll hammer Leeds in the first half, missing a host of chances, and then cock it all up at the death I'd love to be confident, but this team is so hot/cold this year.

That Mitchell and Webb look? Snooker sketches

Most people on this forum have/had the opinion that Che is crap anyway (and tbf some of his shooting is woeful). But i don't know why people suddenly think he's skilful enough to just play well instead of crap because the window is open. Agreed; total nonsense.

It's nice to see at least a few level heads on here after last night. Yeah it's frustrating not to pick up all three points, against a team we should have beat; doubly frustrating seeing us not make the most of a rare Leeds loss, but it is what it is. We made more than enough good chances to have won that game comfortably. Arma's shooting boots were obviously left on the bus - he had three big opportunities and blazed two over, and delayed too much on a clean through ball from Che. I know people hate the xG stat, but its at least more contextual than simple "Shots/Shots on Target" ones. What I find really frustrating is that we seem to be creating as many good opportunities per game as the two at the top, but they just aren't translating into the same results. There's some massive outliers in that table; like Leicester letting in just over half what would be expected, and we're underscoring significantly vs what we should be. It certainly explains why we are where we are, and so are Leicester. It also gives me confidence that although I also find the posession stuff a little dull, like many of you lot do, we are at least creating a reasonable amount of chances, even if the 5 minute build up to every single one of them makes it feel like we dont. We've known for ages that AA and Che are somewhat unreliable as finishers, so I suppose it's not much of a surprise that we don't score more. I also saw someone had linked a table earlier on showing our scorers. Pretty sure it was Charlie + Stu both having ~24ish shots for 1 goal each... there's our real problem; an extra few goals from them would do us the world of good and tip the 1-1's into 2-1's instead.

I'm hoping that the Manning thing is just because of rotation in a busy week. I really wanted him to do well here (still do), but he's a defender who seems not to think about defending. There were two absolute cock-ups from him that I remember: - First half, there was a cross rifled across the box (baz made an excellent save from a back-post header). But the guy who put it in had acres of space, you could see Manning crap his pants when he realised he wasn't actually marking anyone and it was supposed to be his man. - The pathetic pass that was given away near the end of the second half. Downes saves the day with a perfect tackle as part of an excellent performance all-round. Here's hoping Bree is back in on Saturday - he's earned it IMO.

I think I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that interview. It's exhausting watching us only have a 1 goal lead all the time. Very odd reaction, but he clearly knows, as well as we do, that our squad should be winning much more comfortably (in terms of goals) than we are. We should have had them dead and buried in the last 10 minutes as they were clearly knackered and giving away easy possession high up the pitch. Was the midfield that made the difference between the two halves for me. We seemed to always get overrun in the middle in the first half, but Flynn and Alcaraz were constantly breaking the lines in the second. Final ball just a little lacking. On the plus side, 10 games unbeaten, no longer letting in goals for fun, and long may it continue.

Wednesday just equalized against Liecester; could end up being a good night after all

I was just thinking the same thing. Not exactly playing for a transfer is he; heard his name once so far when he fouled one of theirs.