pap

It certainly wouldn't be the first thing my kids have taken up that I didn't agree with. The 12 year old likes One Direction, ffs - I can't tell you how much it pains me to line Simon Cowell's pockets.

I had no problem sending the kids to a RC school, or them being raised in the traditions of their mother. Equally, I had no problem when my eldest daughter asked to be confirmed. I may have been part of the process of bringing my kids into the world, but that doesn't mean that I own their thoughts or beliefs. It isn't for me to decide whether they believe in God or not, which is sort of ironic really, because a lot of religious families are perfectly happy with this concept.

Well, its heartening to see someone fact-checking the research Whatever, 1 in 4 schools is still a lot of schools, and as I've said numerous times, their mum is a Roman Catholic. Are you suggesting that I force my opinion on this issue and send them to secular schools?

Couple of reasons. First, their mum is a Roman Catholic. Second, Roman Catholic schools in Liverpool are basically every other school. It's a very different setup than Southampton where, iirc, Spring Hill, St. Georges and St. Annes are the main RC schools.

Thing is, I don't have to answer yes or no. May have escaped your attention, but part of the beauty of the English language is that you can express yourself fully without resorting to black or white answers. I have told you exactly what Christmas means in our house. I can see that you are itching to get me into a trap of intricate Turkish design. Good luck with that. Worked so well for you before.

Do you really want an answer to this question that common sense (or indeed, information from my other posts) won't provide?

More like iPods, laptops and push-bikes.

Don't want to repeat myself too much, but while we do celebrate the day, we're not really celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ, more engaging in the yearly exchange of gifts. As for the nativity, I've already said that my kids are Roman Catholics (missus is too). Being head of a household doesn't qualify me to tell the other people in my house what they should believe.

In my house, no. A more accurate description would be an "annual gift-giving event". While I can't speak for everyone, that's really what Christmas constitutes for a lot of people. However, I recognise that other people may have a different view, and am keen to hear it. How do you fellas weave the birth of Jesus Christ into your Christmas Day?

Many thanks to saintbletch for adding a bit of clarity to the OP.

Christmas is indeed a special day, but like most families, religion doesn't get near it. I don't think that's uncommon, btw. The meaning of that day has changed significantly, to the point where it is more associated with giving gifts than celebrating the birth of Christ.

The likes of David Cameron and Michael Gove have been at pains to remind the residents of this island that we are a Christian country. Indeed, in the current SaintsWeb humdinger "Your favourite 3 hymns", forum-hopper dune suggests that we live in a "western Christian society". The Beeb gave some airtime to this over the weekend, inviting the likes of Richard Dawkins to join the debate ( Big Questions, on iPlayer ). According to him, the number of people who self-identify as Christians has dropped to 54% from almost 72% in the 2001 census. Further, he claims that of those that self-identify as Christians, only a subset practice Christian rituals, such as attending Church, etc. He argues that broad self-identification as a Christian should not justify some of the narrow policies that serious religious organisations dream up. So, is Britain a Christian country? Is SaintsWeb a Christian forum? The intent here is not to sink into a debate about the existence of God, merely to establish whether the facts on the ground match up to the wider public claim. Your starter for ten. I don't self-identify as a Christian (or indeed, any religion) and don't attend religious services. My family probably would self-identify as Roman Catholics, but barring the big events ( communion, confirmation ) don't attend religious services either.

I think you give him too much credit by referring it to as promise breaking. This isn't "we couldn't quite do what we said we would do", more like "we're doing the exact opposite of what we said we would do". David Cameron is a liar. I sometimes wonder how apathetic people would be about politics if it were presented to them in such honest terms.

The timing of this policy makes me suspect that the Coalition is putting ideological aims above the immediate needs of the country. They're very keen to remind us is up the swanny, yet are actively pushing legislation that they have no mandate to implement. In fact, Cameron explicitly said that there would be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS pre-election. He lied to the electors, in other words. He's managed to weasel out of a load of bad decisions on the grounds of the country's poor financial health, but he can't really pull that trick here. The re-organisation is going to cost 3bn amidst claims that it won't work and won't improve patient care. This bill does nothing on its own, but what it does do is establish structures linking public health care to big corporate healthcare firms. The bill will be a disaster. Instead of refining what we already have, we're sweeping the lot away, and placing the burden of procurement on people who should really be focused on making people better. As Saintandy666 says, they have enough on their plates as it is. Asking them to implement these reforms on top of their normal jobs is unreasonable and unnecessary - compounded by the fact that there is no appetite for it. It'll end in chaos, probably with private healthcare companies swooping in to save the day. And that kids, is how you privatise the NHS without too many people making much of a fuss ( SuperMikey's aforementioned nutjobs excepted, naturally ).

You've obviously never been on Shirley High Street on a Saturday morning

Saints version of the above available now. This one has the Solent commentary. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/player/LatestNews/0,,10280~2617859~1,00.html

Feel free to close this, seen the other thread and will put the Saints link there.

Up on Saints Player now. http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/player/LatestNews/0,,10280~2617859~1,00.html

Filth.

I can see that Bearsy is "giving it large" with his claims on a rigorous stool scrutiny regime (probably to impress the ladies) but I'm just not buying it. There is inspection, and inspection. I am of the opinion that Bearsy's inspection routine consists of:- 1) "Ooh. Look at how shiny that is" 2) A small moment of pride That being the case, I don't think we can exclude worms as a possibility. Now, if he's a "hand breaker", I'll retract my claims.

So let's hear a view for the bill. You seem pretty keen. Care to oblige?

Where are you from, The9? I've been along most the South Coast and have found broadly similar attitudes along it.

Well, conservatism is about conserving stuff. That said, this is more resurrection than conservation.

They are also culturally very similar to Sotonians. But don't mention that.

I take your point, Lord D - but I'm always wary of comparisons between the UK and the US. The US is unique. I think we can both agree that economically, it carries a LOT of debt. Indeed, we had the little non-story about the debt ceiling not being raised last year. However, it's also the most powerful military force on this planet, and I suspect that it gets a lot of leeway based on this fact alone. Despite all that, there is still a tremendous amount of confidence that the US will emerge from this, in a way that is not present with some of the other nations beleaguered by their debt levels. I appreciate the clarification you've provided, and would be very interested to hear what Window Cleaner has to say on the issue. France has recently been downgraded and despite the fact that it is perhaps too early to assess the impact on the French economy, the comparison is perhaps more meaningful than one between the UK and the US.