The Kraken

I read that twice Dave and I'm not sure what benefit it has to the discussion, if I'm honest. Just consider yourself part of the "I think Rodriguez has got potential and it was a worthwhile transfer" brigade, and I'll stay in the "it was a gamble we shouldn't have taken, we should have bought someone else" camp; and we'll revisit in 10 years time to see who was right.

I think what Saturday showed us is that we don't have a realistic replacement for Lallana or the wide left position. As good as Ramirez is, he's not a wide midfielder. That Rodriguez played was IMO more to do with not having anyone else who can play left side rather than Rodriguez's talents forcing the managers hand for inclusion.

He should have been, granted. But leaving him out on opening day and hearing many rumours that he was being lined up with a transfer away from the club, I'm less sure. All innuendo though so not worth delving into further. And what you say is fair enough; but you must understand that, in some cases, some people (i.e. me) believe there is a case when we shouldn't so rigidly stick to that transfer policy. That, as I droned on and on about in the summer, there is a place for one or two players in the squad with top level experience but who will cost a bit more. That there was maybe some worth in exploring the capture of someone like Berbatov, if not exactly him then someone like that (and yes £6M plus £60K a week would be too much, but I hear its less at £4M and if so and on a 2 or 3 year contract I think there's potential value there too). If we stay up this year, then I'd completely go along with the Rodriguez type of signing going onwards; I really would. Its refreshing we're not like QPR. But, at that stage, I maintain there was a case to bring on someone different to properly challenge RL and make a case to play alongside him. Rodriguez may have played instead of Lambert once or twice but I'd find it extremely hard to agree if you said it was the right choice, and even so he has barely played up front instead of him (and nor should have IMO). As I said to Minty; I don't think there's a right or wrong with this. You believe the risk was worth it to go for an unproven youngter who may get better, give a few year's service and have a resale value. I believe a better solution (if only for this season) would have been to go for someone like any of the other players on the list, just to consolidate ourselves this season and build on from there. And its impossible right now to say which one is correct; its all personal interpretation.

It's as simple as that.

And there it is. You either believe that Rodriguez was a little bit of a gamble but will be worth it in a year, two years or further down the line. Or you believe that we should have gone for someone who could have made an impact right now. It is completely each to their own; there isn't necessarily a right answer either way (and won't be until we can look back on Rodriguez's career and see what he develops into).

I still don't think you're getting my point. This is not a question of whether Rodriguez is one for the future; we know that's what he's seen as. But for the money that we spent we could have had any of the players that I listed, all of whom I'd prefer to Rodriguez right now as I believe they would all challenge Lambert for the starting role or make a case to play alongside him. Rodriguez may be one for the future (it's debatable) but he's doing neither of those right now; he is an understudy and that's all. So, just to repeat myself (again) if we were going to spend £7M on a striker then I think our priority at that point in time and (if only for this season) should have been to bring in someone who can challenge right now, rather than in seasons down the line. As I said to Swedish Dave; if Rodriguez had cost £1M or £2M then its an irrelevant converstion, he's well worth the gamble. At the price he was I think it was the wrong gamble at that point in time. If Lambert gets injured then I simply don't think we as a side would have the necessary quality to just replace him with Rodriguez; our side wouldn't be good enough. If Lambert doesn't get injured then we'll have maybe gotten a tiny bit lucky.

Sorry to MLG you, but no way is Shaw 6'1. According to his wiki page he is. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Shaw I was in the Chapel and was quite surprised when Shaw got up after a sliding tackle to disposess jason Roberts; there really wasn't that much disparity in their size, and Roberts is a bit of a beast (and supposedly 6'2"). Shaw could get to be a bit of a unit if he fills out a bit.

The latest wheeze is that "following advice from their lawyers" they're not releasing any information on the amount of pledges confirmed until after their court date.

Why would they stop posting?

As I said to MLG, if there's evidence of that I'll accept it, but the info I have is that the total transfer deal is for up to £7M. Hence its a £7M deal.

Fair enough. We did have a chuckle about it at the time and said how lucky he was; seems like he might have been even luckier.

Puncheon's not really a striker, Dave. Given that we had a bid for Matt Phillips in the summer; and given that Punch has been brilliant in some games but average in others, its not at all inconceivable that we're looking to replace him. Especially so since we've yet to agree any terms on an extension to a contract that expires in the summer. But yes; any additional striker costing £7M should IMO be giving Rickie Lambert a run for his money, and banging on the door to be picked ahead of him or as a genuine option to play alongside him as Rodriguez did on Saturday. JRod got a game not because he forced his way in there, but because Ramirez wasn't deemed worthy of a full 90 minutes. Put it this way; if Rodriguez had cost £1M or £2M, we wouldn't be having this debate. He would be deemed an ok backup to have in reserve; not as good as our first choice but he'll do a job. We're having this debate because he was £7M and, for a side such as us at that time, I feel that £7M should have provided us with a player who was ready to start regularly for the first team in the Premier League.

Didn't seem to be a problem for the Gaston Ramirez signing

Agreed, I don't think you can take too much from Xmas positions, except if one or two clubs are a bit marooned. Hopefully QPR will continue to muster a minimal amount of points under Satchel Face, but anything else is up for grabs. The bottom of the Premier League is so, so tight and always has been. I remember in the very early years of the Premier League Oldham staying up by the skin of their teeth by winning their last 3 games of the season. Like you say; it looks likme we're in this for the duration.

Well we don't know that, do we? We weren't looking to buy someone else, so its a bit of a meaningless comparison. Of those listed I'd suggest that Michu, Carroll (loan), Berbatov (I hear £4M) and Benteke are decent signings. I also quite rate Pogrebnyak but like you have no idea about his wages, he's injured at the mo but has still scored 5 goals this season (albeit 3 of those in the cup). Lukaku also seems to be doing ok at West Brom as a support striker. As to who else we could/should have gone for, we simply don't know as we weren't looking once we signed Rodriguez.

I think our position now is precarious, Diggers. I think anyone from 13th place downwards in the league is in a precarious position. Even with as many games as we have yet to play.

Again Dave, I think you're missing my point. Its not an overwhelming "what a waste of money" accusation. Its that Rodriguez was entirely the wrong sort of player for us to go for. You mention its great to buy em young and develop em; we've currently got a first team consisting of Nathaniel Clyne, Luke Shaw, Jack Cork, Morgan Schneiderlin and gaston Ramirez who are all younger than Rodriguez (except Jack Cork who is a month older); plus a skipper in Adam Lallana who is one year older. So I don't buy this "he's one for the future" talk in any case. For a newly promoted side such as we were, my view is that if we were to be spending £7M at that time on a striker it needed to be someone who could come in and instantly provide competition to Rickie Lambert and be a genuine option up front. Rodrriguez isn't that; if Lambert gets injured then the only option we have is someone who is plainly not as good. And that's not acceptable IMO.

If you held any stock to anyone telling you we'd be relegated by Xmas then you're a touch simple, as its mathematically impossible. I think we'll slip up a bit against Sunderland and it'll be a 1-1 draw, leaving us precariously positioned.

Then like MLG you also fail to miss the point being made, Dave. I'm not writing him off (although I'm starting to doubt if he'll ever be good enough for PL level). What I'm saying is that £7M spent on a player for the future was an ill-advised sum to spend by a team who had just been been promoted and should have been looking to consolidate in this league. It may have been a decent transfer for someone like, say, Fulham; who have been in the division for a while, already have a decent proven strike force and can afford the luxury of bedding in a new developing player. We don't have that luxury; we have Rickie Lambert firing them in (in his debut season) and no-one else with the requried quality to do that right now.m In any case, I think £7M is going to be seen as an overspend; I simply can't see him ever justifying that price tag. You've also made the Beattie comparison before. As I'm sure you've been told Beattie was 20 years old when he came to Saints, and we were an established Premier League side. Jay Rodriguez is 23, and we were a side that hadn't played Premier League for 7 years, and only have 2 players in our entire squad that have previously done so. So its not really a relevant comparison.

‘This is not something we are just turning up to making a nuisance of ourselves. We will have banners and we won’t interfere with anything in court. Christ, look out lads. This lot have got banners and everything.

Have you got a link to this TV replay? I've not seen either MOTD's or any other replay but, at the time (and from the Chapel almost in line with it) it did look either out or pretty much close to it.

So you did absolutely nothing to make sure that he got the job? Despite the vocal opposition from some fans for him to not get the job, you did nothing at all? Is that fair to say?

If it weren't for Puncheon's superb goal I'd have voted for Cork. He was absolutely imperious at breaking up Reading's play and getting us going; his play from tight spots was brilliant and ensured we retained the ball at vital times, while stopping Reading from building up any momentum. He really is a class act and plays that defensive shield position so well. It also frees us Schneiderlin a bit too and plays more to his strengths. Its no conincidence that we've looked a lot more solid in midfield and as a team as a whole since JC returned from injury. Such an important player for us.

Just out of interest, and to humour your silly little crusade. What did you do at the time; to try to ensure that Glenn Hoddle was appointed? Actively, I mean? What did you actually do to try to ensure the club appointed him?

Dalek is getting absolutely rinsed by Vectis here