The Kraken

I think that's the gist of it, yes.

Is anyone actually writing it off? As far as I can say, the general feeling is that finshing top 4 is pretty unlikely but possible, but becoming an established Champions League side is a bit of a pipe dream. Everton have been used as an example of what we could achieve. But lets just remember that Everton finished 4th (once), and didn't even get through to the group stages of the Champions League, they were knocked out in the premilinaries. So it effectively made little difference to them, as they haven't really come all that close to finishing top 4 since. But they are a solid, above mid-table side in the PL and a fair target for what we should aspire to be.

Are you a bit daft? Or just being deliberately obtuse? Of course we will aim to finish as high in the table as we can. I've already said that.

I just don't get this attitude. Just because many believe we won't establish ourselves as a CL team, it doesn't mean that we lack ambition. And Cortese can have all the ambition for it in the world, without the necessary resources available to us we are consistently going to come up short in that ambition. All Saints fans have a desire to see teh club finishing as high in the table as possible, perhaps winning a cup or two along the way, but living sustainably within our means so that we don't suffer an implosion of the likes of the one we've just recovered from. Ambition is not blindly sticking your fingers in your ears to the reality of just how hard that particular benchmark is to hit not just once but consistently as many are advocating.

:lol: And you have the nerve to call other people ridiculous. :lol: Lallana and Lambert have never played Premier League before but suddenly they are Champions League level. AOC is a great talent but hasn't yet burst through to first team level at Arsenal. Walcott is similarly in and out of the Arsenal team. I can only think you're a brilliant WUM. If so, congratulations, you got me

Which, if you actually read the thread, is not relevant any more due to the financial regulations coming in next year, is it? The whole point is that it would have been impossible for those clubs to do what they've done within the financial regulations about to be implemented.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Newcastle next year if they don't qualify for the Champions League. There are already indications that the big clubs will be in for Cisse, and perhaps some of their other players. Tottenham are in the same camp too, they've already admitted they have a massive battle in keeping hold the likes of Modric and Bale. My point is, it indicates just how massively difficult it is to first make the step up from upper mid-table Premier League level to Champions League qualification. Players will get cherry picked off and, while the revenue always comes in handy, it makes it hugely difficult for managers to achieve stability and put plans in place when they're at risk of losing 1, 2, maybe 3 key players each season. Arguments about "build a bigger stadium, they will come" are a bit redundant when you look at the likes of Sunderland (49K stadium, never finished in the PL higher than 7th), Villa Park (43K stadium, not really done anything in the PL since the early 90s), Everton (40 stadium qualified for Champions League once, didn't even make the group stages). These are established clubs, and in Everton & Villa with a history of winning things at European level, yet who regularly are a mile away from making the step up the Champions League spots. Is it possible we could qualify for the Champions League one day? Of course it is, albeit very unlikely. But there simply has to be a bit of realism that, if we did by some miracle finish 4th one year (or even 5th, 6th, 7th), our best players would be tempted away to bigger clubs, making the job to qualify that high again even more difficult.

The second best average attendance in the division might suggest otherwise. And an average attendance well in excess of the last few seasons we spent in The Championship.

Pricing will of course have a big effect; as will a decent payment plan. Can't see any reason we won't be comfortbaly above 20K, with prices that aren't a huge hike from last year and the new payment plan I think we'll be close to that 23K figure.

Pretty sure the highest it got was around 23K.

Indeed, its amazing how our attendances will actually increase despite gaining promotion.

3 years.

Newcastle's situation is not a "proper" sale though, as Mike Ashley owns Sports Direct who have paid for the rights. Its yet to be seen whether any external organisation will fill the void when Sports Direct leave, and certainly at the level of price being suggested. Because of the history of St James Park, changing the stadium name could even potentially have a negative effect for the sponsor. Its akin to why Rangers & Celtic always have the same shirt sponsors, to avoid alienating an entire tranch of potential customers.

We don't have too many home grown players in our team because we've sold them; in original deals that totalled more than £30M. Had we been able to keep those players we would now have a formidable first team with a high proportion of home grown talent, including one player who is 18 years old. Just because we had to sell a player who came through the academy system, it doesn't for a minute suggest the youth system isn't working.

Top work. Apparently there are thousands of others just like you who are waiting to crawl out of the woodwork, stop supporting Man Utd, and come support the Saints instead. I for one can't wait to greet them in our new 50K stadium.

Just think of the thousands of fans that will come from Devon and Cornwall to see us; no need for them to go and see Man Utd anymore, there's a new sheriff in town.

Nonsense Turkey. We sold out a few times 10 years ago; so we quite obviously need a 50K stadium right now. To not build it is stupid.

Alpine Saint has got a new log in. Down negative boy, down.

Pah. Keepers don't count, everyone knows that......

Morgan Schneiderlin is 22, as are Jack Cork and Aaron Martin. And as you say Lallana is 23. Our oldest first teamers are Jos (29) and Hammond (29), which in footballing terms is not old at all. Yep, we've lost Bale, Walcott and Oxo. Its debatable whether they would have stayed if we were in the Prem anyway, but I think the sheer talent of those coming through has skewed expectations of when youth prospects will hit the first team. All 3 of those came through fantastically early in their careers, and the higher level you go the harder it is for under 21s to come through, if at all of course. Its true to say that there doesn't (yet) seem to be another player like that coming through, but that's a really high benchmark to set. Shaw is said to be potentially on the verge and attracting lots of interest, plus a couple of others too. We'd all prefer a team of Saints graduates but unfortunately its never going to happen. In the meantime our prospects still look very good, so I see no reason to declare the situation as "shocking".

Why is it shocking? As far as I can see, the likes of Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Spurs etc struggle to find an under 21 in their starting line up. Arsenal have Oxo in their squad but paid £15M for the privilege, plus injured Jack Wilshere, I can't think of too many others that are knocking on the door of the first team at the other top clubs.

They already do pay a premium for it. Renewal season tickets cost less than standard first-time buys. You're assuming everyone who wants an ST this season is a JCL, which is ridiculous. There are loads that aren't. Myself for instance; for each of the past 3 seasons I've lived abroad for more than 6 months each season, so there was no point in renewing the ST. This year, not the case, so it'll be season ticket time. And I'll pay a premium for it, rightly so. Nice to see that there are some that hope that cost will be through the roof though, cheers for that.

True, that would represent relative value for money. Saying that, with the reduction in games there's going to be a significant "price per game" increase whatever happens.

I bet you're a season-ticket waver, aren't you? F*ck me. Its almost as if the forum uber-fans don't want a regularly filled stadium.

When did we have sh*t times? Besides, as has been said, there is typically discount for those who had a season ticket in the previous year.