The Kraken

I think its the fact that he's resorted to making things up that says it all.

If he can replicate what Grant Holt had done this season, he'll have had a brilliant campaign. No reason to see why he can't.

As said before; despite throwing millions of pounds in wages every year at the solution, Everton have finished 4th once and failed to get to the Champions League. Villa haven't finished that high in near on 20 years. and sunderland have never finished higher than 7th, despite having a 49,000 seat stadium. In fact they've gambled (and failed) so much on players & wages that they are now having to significantly scale back to avoid their crippling debts. Just because an ambitious chairman says what he would like to achieve for the club, I don't take it as gospel that we'll actually do it. Getting us to the Premier League again was a very good achievement, but not beyond the realms of possibility. I admire the optimism, I doubt the realism of the statement.; whoever it comes from. Besides, how many chairmen of other clubs have come in and promised the earth? Just saying it doesn't make it so, and until I see the type of investment required to make it a distinct reality I'll remain a cynic. Without wishing to go round in circles, the whole new financial regulations are being put in place to make sure this type of investment can't actually happen. Good for you if you want to believe we've every chance of being a Champions League regular. Please don't try and convince me though, I just believe otherwise; that if we grow from where we are now we could be a club like Everton who are above mid-table Premier League and might, just might in one year or two challenge for a top 4 spot. And I'll happily admit I was wrong if it turns out to be the case that you and Cortese were right all along and we become a part of the top 4 elite. Until then, I won't be expecting it. You do what you like though and keep reaching for the stars.

Claiming that we have a bigger fan base than Everton despite having an average attendance some 6,000 fewer than their's is a new classic, to be fair :lol:

Unless I've been reading incorrectly, the Nicola Cortese I've seen has consistently said that the aim for Southampton is to be run as a sustainable enterprise. In other words, we will live within our means and not rely upon a rich sugar-daddy to throw good money after bad at us. We are seeing some investment in the training ground, and I wouldn't rule out at some point some investment in the stadium to bring it up in capacity. What our owners will not do, in the case of Chelsea and Man city, is run up enormous debts on the playing side year after year. Take away Abramovic's (and before him Matthew Harding) propping up of the club and you have a club the size of Everton, Villa, Sunderland. Without that investment, that's where they'll return to. And I don't see Cortese being as liberal with the purse strings as Abramovic; hence why I think its a pipe dream to emulate Chelsea. Can't believe I had to justify that, to be honest. I'd have thought it was fairly clear. Guess not.

No they didn't, they averaged 28K in the third division.

It doesn't actually; it shows that comparing a set of statistics from nearly 10 years apart is completely meaningless, really.

And as MLG has told you, despite spending all that money their fans have obviously got a bit disillusioned with life outside the top 4 and crowds have dwindled to 32K. shows how difficult it will be to generate crowds above that level, surely?

I've already said; there's absolutely nothing wrong with having that as an aim. Every club will surely set out with the ambition of trying to win every game they play in, which is as it should be. And I'm sure Cortese will want to achieve as much as he can as a club owner, and will put in place measures for us to grow and improve. The point is the expectation level of where we can get to. And for all the desire of finishing in the top 4 its a fantastically difficult thing to; not just now, but even if we can prove we need to expand and can consistently fill a 40K stadium further down the line. Nothing wrong for aiming at the likes of Sunderland, Everton, and aside from this year Villa as a potential of where we can possibly get to.

In LGTC's post, only about 3 or 4 above yours, that's exactly what he's suggesting.

If you only supported sides that had a chance of winning the title, there would be quite a lot fewer sides in the Premier League. We've won 1 major trophy in over 125 years of existence; if winning things is the be all and end all I'd suggest supporting Saints isn't the right idea. Sadly, the Premier League is, for a number of teams, a making up the numbers exercise in terms of actually winning it. No shame in admitting that. The club will still and try and win every game they play, and that's the point of supporting it.

I think that's the gist of it, yes.

Is anyone actually writing it off? As far as I can say, the general feeling is that finshing top 4 is pretty unlikely but possible, but becoming an established Champions League side is a bit of a pipe dream. Everton have been used as an example of what we could achieve. But lets just remember that Everton finished 4th (once), and didn't even get through to the group stages of the Champions League, they were knocked out in the premilinaries. So it effectively made little difference to them, as they haven't really come all that close to finishing top 4 since. But they are a solid, above mid-table side in the PL and a fair target for what we should aspire to be.

Are you a bit daft? Or just being deliberately obtuse? Of course we will aim to finish as high in the table as we can. I've already said that.

I just don't get this attitude. Just because many believe we won't establish ourselves as a CL team, it doesn't mean that we lack ambition. And Cortese can have all the ambition for it in the world, without the necessary resources available to us we are consistently going to come up short in that ambition. All Saints fans have a desire to see teh club finishing as high in the table as possible, perhaps winning a cup or two along the way, but living sustainably within our means so that we don't suffer an implosion of the likes of the one we've just recovered from. Ambition is not blindly sticking your fingers in your ears to the reality of just how hard that particular benchmark is to hit not just once but consistently as many are advocating.

:lol: And you have the nerve to call other people ridiculous. :lol: Lallana and Lambert have never played Premier League before but suddenly they are Champions League level. AOC is a great talent but hasn't yet burst through to first team level at Arsenal. Walcott is similarly in and out of the Arsenal team. I can only think you're a brilliant WUM. If so, congratulations, you got me

Which, if you actually read the thread, is not relevant any more due to the financial regulations coming in next year, is it? The whole point is that it would have been impossible for those clubs to do what they've done within the financial regulations about to be implemented.

It'll be interesting to see what happens to Newcastle next year if they don't qualify for the Champions League. There are already indications that the big clubs will be in for Cisse, and perhaps some of their other players. Tottenham are in the same camp too, they've already admitted they have a massive battle in keeping hold the likes of Modric and Bale. My point is, it indicates just how massively difficult it is to first make the step up from upper mid-table Premier League level to Champions League qualification. Players will get cherry picked off and, while the revenue always comes in handy, it makes it hugely difficult for managers to achieve stability and put plans in place when they're at risk of losing 1, 2, maybe 3 key players each season. Arguments about "build a bigger stadium, they will come" are a bit redundant when you look at the likes of Sunderland (49K stadium, never finished in the PL higher than 7th), Villa Park (43K stadium, not really done anything in the PL since the early 90s), Everton (40 stadium qualified for Champions League once, didn't even make the group stages). These are established clubs, and in Everton & Villa with a history of winning things at European level, yet who regularly are a mile away from making the step up the Champions League spots. Is it possible we could qualify for the Champions League one day? Of course it is, albeit very unlikely. But there simply has to be a bit of realism that, if we did by some miracle finish 4th one year (or even 5th, 6th, 7th), our best players would be tempted away to bigger clubs, making the job to qualify that high again even more difficult.

The second best average attendance in the division might suggest otherwise. And an average attendance well in excess of the last few seasons we spent in The Championship.

Pricing will of course have a big effect; as will a decent payment plan. Can't see any reason we won't be comfortbaly above 20K, with prices that aren't a huge hike from last year and the new payment plan I think we'll be close to that 23K figure.

Pretty sure the highest it got was around 23K.

Indeed, its amazing how our attendances will actually increase despite gaining promotion.

3 years.

Newcastle's situation is not a "proper" sale though, as Mike Ashley owns Sports Direct who have paid for the rights. Its yet to be seen whether any external organisation will fill the void when Sports Direct leave, and certainly at the level of price being suggested. Because of the history of St James Park, changing the stadium name could even potentially have a negative effect for the sponsor. Its akin to why Rangers & Celtic always have the same shirt sponsors, to avoid alienating an entire tranch of potential customers.