ThorpG

West Ham up vs. City. If it stays that way and we beat Stoke we end the weekend 2nd (a few 'ifs' there, I know). If someone had said we would be 2nd ahead of City after 2 games... Going to caveat this by saying that I fully expect Saints to dominate vs. Stoke and then draw with Crouch getting a cra*py goal...

I like Koeman's understated style, shows a bit of class, particularly recent quotes praising Van Gaal, when everyone knows they do not have a happy history. 'Good player' - some of the goals he scored were fabulous and his goal scoring record for a defender was remarkable. He is just playing the game, talking down expectations - Chelsea can't want to keep Bertrand and we realistically can afford him, we just will want to bargain hard.

Skates going top doesn't bother me - look at the price they have paid for it, it took a lot of players they couldn't afford to get there. Still they seem to have found their level in League 2... Finishing in the top six this season and qualifying for Europe with the squad and ethos we have as a club would mean far more than briefly hitting top spot (something very few people will remember). Big ask though...

You been out on the p*ss 'Dr Who'? Chelsea ain't dropping points full stop currently, cannot see it. PS hope you are right though!

Whatever the arguments on here about the rights and wrongs of prices, the Price of Football piece on the BBC has heightened the debate, taking on a political element now: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/29652317 Feels like cheap political publicity to me, as I don't expect Labour to get in power at the election, and I don't believe a government would really legislate on football club ownership / board make up in this country.

I am not sure the modern football fan is more fickle - I think there are as many loyal Saints fans as ever, it is simply that there are now more fans who come on a more casual basis - some of these people are more inclined to change allegiance if the club gets say relegated etc... I feel like about 20,000 will come and watch Saints regardless of what division we are in and this then moves upwards towards 30,000 as we are more successful. When stadia were smaller in the pre-PL days these 'casual' fans just couldn't tickets as easily, particularly at our club with at 15k capacity at the Dell.

I would think a more balanced price architecture with better concessions to under 18s etc. along with prices for programmes, food etc. at least coming into line with the other 19 clubs, not being higher. Doesn't have to be major cuts, just moderate the prices back - I think filling up the last couple of thousand seats and driving more transactions (food sales, shirt sales, programme sales) would net off. Price is not the only way to increase sales. Also, given the materiality of the TV income (circa £80m) and given the phenomenal amount of transfer receipts we made (somewhere near £100m), shouldn't we able to balance the books without above inflation increases this season?

I don't think this is the case - I think the issue here is that price increases are outstripping wage inflation, i.e. in real terms tickets are becoming more expensive for the same product. I don't expect football to be cheap, particularly given the quality and level of the Premier League. I do think that clubs should try and avoid above inflation price increases. £20 to watch the skates - mental...

Not at all. Love Saints, happy to be constructively critical. Would love sell outs every game, happy fan base etc. etc.

'Right' and 'wrong' not really relevant here, no 'right' answer here, totally subjective. Sorry to be all boring and moderate, but all the abuse and aggro is a bit OTT... Good debate, getting derailed...

I do think the debate has gone from lively and argumentative to just getting at people. There is clearly a pricing issue in English football, insofar as large amounts of people think prices are too high. Disagreeing is one thing, but dismissing seems odd.

None of us 'know' much about any of this, all subjective. But hey, if we only posted what we 'know' this forum would be pretty quiet. In reality, I know absolutely nothing about the inner workings of Southampton Football Club, other than what is published in the accounts and what the club states on the website. But I like having an opinion anyway... .

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it - in reality, neither of us know as we can only hypothesise on price elasticity of demand regarding ticket prices etc. - I think moderately lower ticket prices would be offset by moderately higher crowds, you possibly don't. Let's agree to disagree, as I said before, I can see your point or view.

Not a big place though Dortmund - as % of population they have a great take up (average 80,000 attendance, 500k or so people in Dortmund), higher than most. Their own management recognise that charging higher prices would substantially reduce crowds. As for selling best players every year - isn't that our model...

Not saying the wholesale pricing structure is wrong, am merely questioning whether us having some of the highest levels of pricing (tickets, programmes, shirts etc.) in the Premier League and in Europe may be a touch overdone for a club who are mid table and win very little. A lack of sellouts and low commercial income relative to other teams in our division suggest there may be something in this. Not a black and white argument, more complexity than that, but I do think there is some opportunity to reassess prices. Good debate and I see your point also, Sour Mash.

So your hypothesis would be that clubs don't make pricing mistakes, even though different clubs taking difference pricing strategies? There are clear examples of amateurish management of football clubs in the Premier League, I don't think you should be 'appalled' by someone questioning prices, when rises outstrip earnings, attendances are falling in some instances and clubs continue to lose money. Listen to the Dortmund executive talking about the 'mistakes' being made by Premier League clubs on pricing - that is someone working for one of the most successful clubs in Germany, not simply a fan like me. I am not saying that all is wrong with the club (I think it is pretty well run), but I do wonder if the prices have been slightly overdone, threatening attendances and commercial income.

Mods - could you change the title please, iPAD mishap - should read 'Price of Football'... Thanks.

I understand basic supply and demand, my point is that is the demand isn't necessarily there at these prices, hence the lack of sell outs and the low commercial income. Would a drop in programmes prices, food, shirts stimulate getter demand and higher overall revenue? It was identified by the club that our commercial revenue was far too low for a Premier League club and lower than some Championship clubs - I would think that over-pricing would be a factor in this (why would Saints have the most expensive programme in the Premier League for example).

I read it differently - we struggle to fill the stadium and we have an issue with low commercial income (as highlighted by the club itself). Our prices are higher than most other premier league clubs (tickets, shirts, food etc.). No 'faux anger' just an observation that maybe our pricing structure is wrong.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29527838 We ain't cheap....

I hope you are right, but looks an odd one to me - a fit again Rodriguez and I don't see Long threatening the first XI. I do think he may prove useful away from home where he can run the channels, harry the defence and press, where we will likely have to defend more and absorb pressure - at home where we ought to have more of the ball, I am less clear why he would play.

In pure quality terms, Tadic. In terms of apparently replacing a player who apparently couldn't be replaced, Bertrand has made a great start, albeit easier to judge after 40 games rather then 4.

Why is that then? Because the transfers were protracted and difficult? But so was Wanyama's and that seems to have worked out fine. Whereas the Taider deal looked very quick and easy yet was a farce. Presumably now Ramirez and Osvaldo have been loaned out elsewhere you can let this drop for a while...

He really was...

And that is the problem - we are just 'reacting" to events. The Board appears to have no strategy per se, they are merely conducting a bunch of one off transactions. In business terms, each transfer makes sense insofar we are being paid far too much for each player. However, when you put these decisions together, you have just hastened the return back to the Championship. Pathetic management really... I think we all sit and wait for a sale and then it will be luck of the draw whether we get a good owner or a bad one. I hope Koeman sticks around for the ride, but I would imagine he likely won't.