Hockey_saint

Now, I agree with that, but what is your interpretation of the "will of the people"...those who vote in the leadership battle or the UK public as a whole?

I was quoting the manner in which the clearly subjective reporter was making wild statements about how Labour were, quote "crushed" in the last election. You do come off as attempting belittlement...Nevertheless I shall soldier on and point a couple of things out: I have previously stated that I am fully aware that Labour introduced ATOS..well, new Labour, so Tory-lite...so light you might as well vote Tory...which the public did to a fair old extent (kinda why I think your idea of staying in the centre....it's centre by the way, not center as the article suggests...won't work). So what do you suggest, do a Harriet Harman, continue as we have, throw our hands up in the air and say "oh British public, it's all our fault...please take us back as we are"...I don't think that's going to cut it any more. I think New Labour is as dead as old Labour may have been after John Smith died on the 12th of May 1994. Also, I am aware that most articles have bias in them thank you very much.

Either that or the current government will continue their measures of austerity to the point of the virtual removal of the welfare state, Labour will offer yet another "tory lite" alternative and get "crushed" (although obviously not a '97 style crush) again.

A couple of things about that article...it has a .eu address but comes off as US Republican spin-like; a biographer of Tony Blair....so no bias there at all...He's belittling Labour party members "too subtle" so what? they don't get it then? Also Charisma? Ed Milliband, David Cameron and George Osborne...are you having a giraffe?

You know, you're really only backing up the views of the smug tories on here right (maybe not the best thing if you are a labourite)? I was thinking about the first bill this government failed to put through...The fox hunting one; Thatcher would never be that obvious....or that foolish...so in many ways, I probably wouldn't compare yesterday to today as Dave isn't Thatcher and Corbyn certainly isn't Michael Foot.

Good point!...Ignore that.

It's a monologue approach coming from someone doing about 12 things at once and who's neuro pathways are a little frazzled after 50 odd brain surgeries which causes me to make connections you probably don't see....kind of on the spectrum but I'm sure I've said this several times, usually after you whitterly use such remarks.

Never said it wasn't going to be an uphill battle. Either way, I think Russell Brand backing him is the kiss of death. Besides, I no more sneeringly refer to these people as a lot of posters on here do those being beaten down by the current austerity measures. Let's hear it? 1,2,3...we're all it together! Although having the fox hunting bill pushed first was even too obvious for them!....More obvious still, people campaigning against it, like Ricky Gevais, being labelled "left-wing loonies" by the all powerful media.

And someone said the right don't control the media...Although the American writer, Bill Bryson, a former fleet street reporter himself, makes this abundantly clear in several of his books but the problem is, people are now more prone to believe this nonsense. For example, turn on channel 4 or 5, or even 1 and see: saints and scrounger, benefit street, benefits Britain, Jeremy Kyle, Immigration street...to name but a few, the media is awash with this right wing nonsense and the public are spoon fed to believe everyone on the dole or disabled, or poor is a scrounger out to steal their tax money and that they've clearly not done a day's work in their lives....oh and that immigrants are coming to rape out wives, take from our kids mouths, ruin the NHS and steal benefits. Joe public now buys this by the barrel load, why should anyone on here be any different?

Seems like a right of passage on both sides to me too. Although I don't think the Labour supporters resorted such sad tactics as registering as tories to get any of those, for the want of a better word....right-wingers in. I agree, but think about it, the right may be laughing now, but are they forgetting the referendum and the looming leadership battle if Cameron steps down with Johnson and Osborne?....that'll be fun to watch.

Like IDS?....Nah, Corbyn appears to care about the unemployed, the elderly and disabled. IDS is a horrible MP to compare anyone against. I'd find it hard to compare Maggie to that arsewipe. Compare IDS to Corbyn? the demon MP who fronted the removal of the ILF, the man who said he could live off £12 a week, the man who claimed JSA whilst living in his wife's mansion?...Come on, the members on this board seriously are not that far removed from reality? I mean, football fans have a reputation for being right-wing but jeremy clarkson!

double post soz.

I'm afraid that perhaps you are right. This article in the FT is pretty interesting though; the number's he's attracting are impressive and I don't agree that: "Ed Miliband was defeated because his party was not trusted on the economy or public spending" solely, I don't think he offered any variety, probably wasn't centre enough but was also a awful public speaker. Either way, it's an interesting article: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fbf513f4-4584-11e5-b3b2-1672f710807b.html

So you don't agree with him that it's wrong to target the poorest in society in the name of austerity then? As I say, there are a few things a lot of people would see as common sense. I disagree with the kids being targeted, their 2 child child benefit policy is a joke . Getting a French IT company to judge who's disabled or not is a complete travesty. I say this because Labour as they are would probably do the very same. I would just like a change from this; Corbyn isn't it but neo-liberal politics are just awful today.

Yeah, you're probably right about swing voters.

Problem with that is that the commons is now full of people who would support his arguments...(except obviously the conservatives, the career politicians in his own party and some Liberals). Did you see his response at the budget to a question from a tory mp on removing children out of poverty? he slaughtered the MP with quite a frank and to the point answer (i.e., well, Osbourne has been outstanding in moving the goalposts). I've seen Cameron and Osborne debating in the common's they are not very sharp you know? Tony Benn could have walked all over them.

Yep, can't disagree with any of that (except, the working class bit, so removing tax credits is helping the working classes isn't it?). Although Lord Duckhunter, Corbyn is VERY (Suspiciously so maybe) popular in the polls. But Batman and CB Fry, have you seen his Oxford union debates, he's very articulate, much more so than you are clearly giving him credit? He basically tears John Redwood a new one...I wouldn't bank on him losing a debate in the commons. A lot of people have noted him for his frank and penetrating arguments and I probably wouldn't compare him to Milliband either as Ed was much weaker at this and the thing most people will tell you is that unlike a lot of Labour and Conservative MP's he comes across as incredibly honest and not deceitful which a lot of MP's do today, either way, it kinda comes of as gloating and remember that has this annoying habit of biting the gloater in the backside.

No, you are right. We should also remember that throughout it's history, Labour has strongly resisted being seen as "too far left". In a way, I can see what Wade up there is saying in that my father says the same.....and then my mother chirps in (always being a union member and speaking at TUC conventions herself) with "well, you're dad as he's gotten older is like a car....slowly turning to the right". I digress, I think it's important to realise that we've all got a "pinch" of socialism in us and I think everyone on this board would go mad if, for example the conservatives did finally privatise the NHS....They probably wont as long as opinion is against it. But I also think it's been so long since we've had anything to the left we don't know what it is and turn into Americans thinking everything slightly left of centre is commie.

So. as a Labour voter and union member...what puts you off about them you know.....turning to the left?...I mean, until Blair radically transformed them into essentially a liberal party in 97, that's what they've always been...or did you secret wish they'd turn to the right? It's just odd to me as it's what it says on the tin. I mean, if I wanted conservative, that's what I'd vote for...wasn't that the moral of the election?

It will. But I think there are bigger savings to be made rather than sticking to conservative doctrine and hitting welfare.

The fact that the debt has not been reduced and is still growing whilst punitive measures hitting those worst off are suggesting that doctrine has a higher importance than bringing the debt down trousers. Either way, neither party appears to be particularly good at it...What Gordon Brown selling off all our gold for virtually nothing and whilst promoting "prudence" as chancellor spending like crazy as PM. (I've equalled that out for fairness)

Someone suggested something similar at work today actually....You know, a suggestion of something like a black Wednesday is it? Something that would show that they can't deal with the economy either. But as I've said before, they probably will not win the next election...They certainly won't staying on the new labour track.

That's more like it. I think Scotland appears to be warming to him too (they should, his ideas are essentially theirs too....don't forget that young SNP MP who's opening speech in the commons was a Tony Benn quote).

Is isn't it? Right, I'll clear it up a bit: I do not agree with his views on Trident. I think his quantitative easing suggestions are unproven (although, remember, banks make money out of thin air and if this is the case, it makes a so-called country's debt look a bit silly). He's old, maybe too old for leadership but compared to the other candidates his honesty shines through. I was actually a bit worried you might have found the link of me in the Guardian suggesting to Kendall that "if all she wants is power with no clear strategy or plan then she's doomed". I think Burnham would probably be the most sensible choice and the other one, well, maybe not. I ask you this then, would prefer 2 parties so ideologically close together that you could barely tell the difference (i.e. the US system or the pre-war UK one where Churchill swapped between the liberals and the conservatives several times?). I enjoyed how he was the only one to have the bottle to suggest, when asked what he thought of Cameron taking all those kids out of poverty that Osbourne has done a superb job at moving the goal posts. I also think it's completely insidious to suggest that you wish to make work pay then remove working tax credits from those on the minimum wage whilst boasting about a "living wage" which essentially isn't really any different. So no, it's not all smiley and happy faces in wonderland, not for many people it isn't and it certainly ISN'T a classless society Guided Missile.

This! I have been warned that fellow left-wingers have been banned on this site for their views before (and well, if CB is left wing, let's just say he likes to take his biscuits and keep quiet about it lest they jump on him and call him a socialist...which, by the way is not a bad thing at all, this country owes a great deal to socialism.) My point about Harriet Harman was this CB Fry, I previously had noticed both Cameron and Osbourne mocking her for being "richer and posher than them" but I ignored it, thought perhaps she'd gotten a conscience but then when she decided to roll over and essentially take it (the welfare bill) up the backside and the disgrace that was the abstaining....which even the Lib Dems did not do), I kinda got a bit cross. I think her interptation of why Labour lost and how we should just except everything that comes before us is abhorrent and in my view and a lot of others if the polls are correct is that Labour voters essentially abstained from voting because they were sick of more of the same. I pointed out to another Labourite I know that they "lost Scotland, are losing the North and cannot win in the Tory heartland of London and the South East" so they NEED a rethink, they can't carry on the way they are because they'll lose...again and again. They'll be out in the cold for at least a decade so why no rediscover who they are? Also, if Corbyn's views on QE are so wrong why has the Financial Times just agreed whole-heartedly with them. And finally, I may be a socialist (not an extreme left one I might add) but are you seriously OK with ignoring the treatment of the disabled and the young and working (poor and mininum wage who will now lose their tax credits so that work will definitely not pay?)...Oh yes, finally, GM? Classless society? You are taking the michael right?