Hockey_saint

guess? 40% 30% would vote conservative simply because that's who they feel they'd always vote for but I still think a fair percentage have been bought around by the constant and I do mean constant media drivel about "strivers vs skivers". But then I also think the EU is a big issue and has turned what would usually be a lot of labour voters into anti-EU right wingers and a reasonable amount of these probably defaulted to the conservative party realising that UKIP would never get in.

I'm not labelling everyone because I'm not stupid enough to think that every conservative voter is aware of who they are currently targeting and what's actually happening to disabled people or people on very very low wages. But those that openly know that the rich people currently in our government see it fit to take away the bridge between economic poverty and just getting by...Yes, I would very happily call them heartless arsewipes.

You could say I'm agreeing with you here Hypo but isn't this the problem? The simple idea of "dropping working tax credits" and "forcing" companies to pay the "living wage" is just idiotic. I've seen the books of one or two retailers who are blatantly surviving on paying workers minimum wage that I know this is going to be impossible to do....so why remove working tax credits? It's crazy.

When you vote in a party who target the weakest in society how are you expected to be seen as "decent"?

You're probably right there. I also agree Sour Mash, but what is that down to? past experience? Or the rich, right-voting millionaires pretty much controlling every media outlet in the UK?

Well blaming Labour can surely only last so long for even the tory-voting masses?

I was, I saw the collapse of the Liberals but I didn't see Labour collapsing like they did for sure. But then it wasn't the slaughter that tory voters would lead us to believe now was it? In my opinion, voting right is an easy option "I don't want others using my tax money to buy cigarettes and big screen TVs" is a common one and it would appear that the labour voting usual crowd either fell into this easy option or just abstained so I can say I was wrong there but I'm not wrong about the people bearing the brunt of these so-called "fair measures".

I still think it's brilliant how the Sun, the main mouthpiece of Rupert Murdoch has seemingly cottoned on that the people who buy his newspapers are going to be hit by these "austerity measures". I'm on a reasonably low wage; I have never claimed working tax credits but it doesn't mean I don't have sympathy for those that do.

As opposed to what? constant bashing of the left which goes on virtually unchecked here.

No, I think a fair percentage of the population would disagree with you there. But I think if the current government continues the way they are, it's their attitude towards the young that's going to backfire quite badly on them.

Perhaps, but the problem I have is the pretence that these low-paid workers would in some way be better off losing all this money. My view is just that if we have austerity, it is better to target those that have and not those that have not.

Are you suggesting those on low incomes who'll lose a fair old amount thanks to the loss of tax credits are NOT workers? I mean, I would suggest to you that it is those very low paid workers who need caring for the most....not being punitively punished. Please don't mention the "living wage" because we both know it's noting of the sort.

Wrong forum dude, I completely agree with you but most here won't. But it is why Labour won't get back into power whilst people believe such right-wing nonsense.

But the title of this thread is "in a caring society" where's the caring bit?

It's OK Batman, I'll cut you a break and lend you a brain cell for once: If you hold a conference in the city where one of the most Assad-like murderous government (tory government) ordered mass killings of innocent citizens happened and you justify this with a Daily Mail link then I'm afraid...well, you're either being a bit simple or just outright moronic. I'll put it simpler....IF you think holding a Tory party conference where the Peterloo massacres happened, at a time like this is not incitement, then you are living in a very odd and special place indeed. Either way, Lord Duckhunter has a point here and so does Whitey Grandad. There are lots of added things that could be cut from pensioners (wealthy pensioners in particular...but then they'll say "we've worked for that"). Balancing books is fine but it's intertwined with conservative doctrine that's the problem: hitting those who would not normally vote for them, pretending the living wage is anything of the sort while removing essentially a thousand pounds a year from people who could ill afford it...that's not austerity, that's doctrine. But I've found this lovely link from the sun (cripes, the Sun, often a conservative vote winner for the public....shocking!...As they point out, if you agree to this, which clearly a lot of you on here do...you might be just a little bonkers) http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/6674334/Government-tax-credit-cuts-to-affect-three-million-Brits.html

You should have a look at Mein Kampf.....He pretty much spells that out quite clearly actually. But either way, I just don't the understand sneery people who dismiss the toil of countless generations simply because some zealots went mad for a couple of decades. When I say sneery, I mean people like that Sky News reporter. I mean, who owns Sky again? oh yes, Rupert Murdoch...that'll be completely impartial then. *and he wrote that when he was in prison in the '20s....fair bit of warning I'd say.

You implied I was prejudiced against Jewish people....I am not. My point is that nothing develops on their own Israeli politics grew out of the initial Balfour agreement and everything that has happened since is the result of that. So for the party who signed that agreement to ask "oh why are there extremist Palestinians"...well, you'd have to be pretty darn fickle (then again, it was Boris Johnson who I quoted) to forget this.

I am actually Jewish...so no, I am not...have you any clue what a semite is by the way? You can actually call someone from Malta a semite. Either way, the worst anti-semite at the moment is the Israeli prime minister and the horrific acts he's commiting against the Arab Palestines. Yes, you are clearly not "understanding" what I'm saying: The AREA of what is now Israel housed a large number of Jewish and Arab peoples before the Mandate was enacted...But oddly enough, when we turned our backs on agreements we made (under a conservative foreign minister) all hell broke loose. So no, it's fair to say that was one heck of a starting point. Most of the "Jewish refugees" were actually Russian/East European converts who historically had no roots to the "promised land" anyway. And thanks, (whoever it was that said Hitler was left wing...Not Whitey Grandad) that's some seriously mental news that one, Hitler being left wing....kinda blows his theory that communism (actually, not his theory, initially Generals from the first world war) is inextricably linked to world Jewry.....Mate, if you believe that, you are off your rocker.

'Tis an awfully fun game. Communism wasn't fun and I'm sure those that dreamed up things like: workers rights, employment law, the right to strike, the right to vote, a decent wage...I'm sure a totalitarian system run by Russian nutcases was exactly what they had in mind ;p.....Just like those peace-loving and wealthy conservative landowners couldn't have possibly seen a genocidal maniac such as Adolf Hitler murder millions in the name of right wing policy. Either way, comparing both on each side as examples of what essentially middle-of-the-road MPs threaten is a bit silly now don't you think? But I agree Gemmel, he's too old, he'll probably be gone before the next election.

I hope this isn't another "donkey jacket incident" :s

Wait, that'll be the next co-ordinated conservative party claim!....But again, should we mention pro-west Mujahaadin "freedom fighters" sponsored and armed by the Thatcher government who became Bin Laden's group who's splinter cell became ISIS?.....Although, no, we can't blame the conservative party for the Egyptian goddess of wealth.

No we don't but the irony that Marxism is a British idea shouldn't go unnoticed.

No, you are wrong. Whilst it is true Jewish-Arab tensions had been simmering for quite some time, walking in, promising to free the Palestines of the Turkish yoke (Boris is part Turkish by the way) and then, on the insistance of rich British Jewish banking families like the Rothschilds to completely ignore this and go ahead and agree with the Jewish Homeland can be squarely.....and historically, fairly be posted at the feet of the conservative party and without Israel....No Hamas. And I digress, Jews lived peacefully in Palestine for a long time before we got there. I find your assertation that the British cannot be blamed for the problems in the middle east (ergo the conservative party) a little uneasy as its all historical fact....especially coming from a "Labour supporter".

I personally found Michael Gove in the house of commons today shouting "why don't you just resign now" particularly repugnant. I do like (like in the sense it's so obviously orchestrated) how every tory MP has used social media to use the following variant of a line "he's in bed with terrorists" well, my answer to the Palestine example would be this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Balfour Whilst finding the Jewish people a home was a good idea and it ultimately led to a lot of countries being created, the downside is that we'd already signed a pretty darn big agreement with the Arabs to allow the Palestinians to live independently in Palestine....Now, I don't mean to sound like that Scottish fellow but you can't really eject a people from their homes, replace them with some new settlers and expect a peaceful settlement....so who lit the touch paper for groups like Hammas? The conservative party.

I suspect they are currently doing the same with this "danger to national security" nonsense. We've probably got 5 years of this and by the end...Everyone will believe it despite the Labour deputy Watson coming out and saying he's totally against the removal of trident.