shurlock

Cynics? I guess only thick c**ts confuse the Chinese with the Japanese.

Parliamentary sovereignty Les - what's not to like?

It's called the separation of powers, a pretty fundamental element of the rule of law and yes the UK's 'democracy'. Terms and concepts pose a problem for you, don't they Balders?

Are you saying Villa and Blackburn, as they were inherited by their owners, have better scouting, recruitment and player development than us? Like it or not pal, money correlates with success -even before conditioning it on the capacity of the club to allocate it efficiently.

Excellent strawman pal: none of those other clubs have the infrastructure to spend money effectively. We do. Other things being equal, having more money to spend is a good thing. The more important question is whether any prospective owners, like Liebherr, would allow and respect the football people to get on with things. There are no guarantees, though that is much easier when you have a successful track record, again a contrast with your contrived examples of Villa and Blackburn.

Cheers Jack.

Heard you've got the five live gig later on, pal.

Possibly though they're a company in their own right and have attracted significant funding (£5bn). The investors are CCB international and more interestingly 黄龙 which is the main investor in Hangzhou Greentown football club and has the stadium named after it. As with most things in China, while ostensibly independent, it is funded by the local government (Zhejiang). The club was relegated last season from the top flight but is the main team in China's richest province.

Worth noting that Lander recently suspended trading on the Shenzhen stock market. It has done so because it's undergoing a massive reorganisation (not because it's broken the law!) which frequently happens in China ahead of an an acquisition, transaction or some other internal change. My understanding is that it's not a particularly well known company (nothing like Wanda), though it attracted £5bn in private equity investment to enter the sports industry. It currently runs a few basketball tournaments, owns a women's football team (nothing major), so speculating somewhat guess its looking at investments to move the dial.

Les did I say Brexiters and Eurosceptics were the same thing? I dont even have to enter a definitional discussion to make my point. It is only necessary to show, as a matter of fact, that many Brexiters have also historically held Eurosceptic views. If that is the case, it is perfectly appropriate to label them Brexiters as they belong to both Brexit and Eurosceptic groupings, regardless of the definitional differences. Simple logic - not quite your forte, old Les.

Nope: that's even less clear I'm afraid. You've simply replaced one definitional can of worms with an even larger can. Well played. Rather given your indiscriminate use of the term on this thread, it appears applied to anyone who disagrees with you. That's not particularly edifying or illuminating, is it pal.

That was not the original point - keep up Les - difficult as that maybe for you as you vainly deflect and make things up on the fly. The main point is that many Brexiters have been historically opposed to state intervention and industrial policy, so it's ironic to see them now championing it in the service of promoting trade with Europe. You asked for examples - I gave them to you and then you went all quiet (not the first time). Speaks volumes pal.

You've moved the goalposts as usual- all it goes to demonstrate is that you've conceded on the point of substance. I can repeat it for you but given youre likely to avoid answering it (once again), there isn't much point, is there? And what's with the multiple lols- you OK pal? Calm down, take a deep breath and try not to think of the Rothschilds.

So they're totally discrete groups? So you're one but not the other Les? The point Les was very simple: I was using the grouping as shorthand as its a current term. Everyone understands the point being made. Indeed you've proven incapable of rebutting that point -unable to do so, you've opted for your standard, diversionary smoke and mirrors instead. Also note the irony that you, Baldrick and LD have no trouble throwing around the term leftie when it suits you, even though there is far less consensus what it means. It's fun watching you work pal: the hick from Hampshire who thinks hes Wittgenstein

According to some on here Puel was a clown for not playing Tadic as an out-and-out winger.

As dopey Les might say, get your 'terminology' right.

Whooosshhhhh

Good one, Les. The EU as an issue never existed before 2012. What would we do without you

It's very simple Les- there are many Brexiters who have opposed industrial policy during the course of their careers. And their views on the role of the state are intimately bound up with their views on Europe. Are you telling me that because Brexit is a relatively recent term, supporters before that had never ever thought about Europe or the economy? You may have been born yesterday but come on pal Once again your ability to get tripped up in your own dim, parochial train of thought is unrivalled.

Poor old Les, is this going to go the same way as your embarrassing performance over productivity and UK's productivity record You really don't have much of a clue about the UK's political and economic faultlines and the history of industrial policy, do you? An influential wing of thought, as embodied by the likes of Patrick Minford and the IEA has been hostile to industrial policy, seeing it as a form of cosy corporatism. Indeed their very scepticism of 'Europe' is inseperable from their opposition towards industrial policy and state intervention which have a longer history on the continent. Whatever label you use 'Brexiter', 'Eurosceptic' - in effect another attempt to mask your ignorance through deflection- this thinking is very coherent and consistent. Alas you don't know whether you're coming or going pal.

Still don't get it, do you Balders. Who said this is about opposition to industrial policy? Unlike Brexiters fairytales about the UK's place in the world, Nissan has made it clear that the UK is valuable only insofar as its trading relationship with the EU is preserved. The truth hurts pal. It's thus somewhat bemusing to see brexiters who have bashed industrial policy for years now champion it in the service of this relationship! Which begs the question: why alter the status quo in the first place?

Lol at the haters.

VVD and Costa have unfinished business from last time.

2/10 Compensating an industry for an entirely avoidable policy choice/mistake is not quite the same as providing strategic support, is it Baldrick. If anything the former just diverts resources that could have been used to pursue a properly thought through industrial policy.